Hi All - Three years ago I decided to lose weight and get in better shape. The goal was to get to my college weight and shape if not better. Within a year I achieved the weight goal - 128 lbs. perfect for my height and build - unfortunately, I lost a lot of muscle and stamina along the way.

I am super jealous of female body builders! For my New Year resolution, I joined a gym with an array of weight lifting equipment. It's only been two weeks, problem is, I lose too much weight when I exercise - cardio drops the pounds so scary fast that I no longer do any cardio, weight lifting is slower weight loss but still losing weight and seeing no real improvement in muscle mass.... aaaand.... weight lifting is incredibly boring!

Any body builders out there? I need advice on whey-free dietary changes to help maintain weight. And, how do I mix up the routine to overcome the boredom?

I'm no expert but was an avid weight lifter in my younger days and use them now for over all conditioning. In general, I think you need to increase your protein intake when you use weights so you gain muscle mass as you lose fat.

I'm sure someone here knows more about it, good luck.

Yes, thank you for the help. I have been looking at the protein supplements for bodybuilders, however, most have whey and I have an allergy to dairy protein. If I eat too much I break out in hives. The plant based protein supplements are unpalatable. :P

Whey Protien. YOu can get it at walmart if you like.

HH =)

The best protein supplements are eggs, fish, chicken. Just an extra egg a day would translate into a significant increase in protein.

...Competitive pro-builders also use a straight amino acid supplement. Non diary based; made from animal collagen. 2 tablespoons equals 18 grams; of the usable 20/21 grams amino acid based proteins. So, the older? recommendations for mdr of protein was 50-55 gm. for women, 60-65 gm for males. 6 tablespoons of the "Predigested Liquid Protein is all you would need daily. As a builder, you might use more. Drink extra water, as the kidneys are processing straight protein. Tastes OK.....I prefer cherry.

CC is a lifter?

...if you were old enough to watch Arnold evolve in the late 60's, one of his mantras then was "stay hungry". Meaning, eating poor quality food products was worse than eating anything. The body, (pancreas) was never meant to process the mass amount of junk sugars/fats we do today...kids working at fast-food joints. Type 1 early-onset diabetes for these young fast-food workers......sad. Phosphoric acid-laced soft drinks. Carbonic acid in soft drinks attacking the aluminum cans.....aluminum oxide=Alzheimers....deadly. All lead to liver/pancreatic failure.

Again,

CC is a lifter?

...free advice costs nothing. Receive or reject has the same outcome for me.

I'm seriously asking. Next question would be bodybuilder, crossfit, Oly, or power?

For context, LW was, like PollyDee, an athlete and still occasionally plays the gym rat.

...If you are, or have been involved in training of some sort, why would you want/seek advice from me?.......you know we are different, confrontational people. Just enjoy what you have already accomplished.

I am not really seeking advice, just curious about someone whom I frequently argue with but whom I also respect. Conflict does not, in my mind, imply antipathy.

Not important, though, in any case.

Just enjoy what you have already accomplished.

Thank you, Concerned Citizen, sounds interesting - since they're not dairy based, I'll give the amino acid supplements a try!

...it's OK LW is a good sport regarding abusive posters like me. The cherry is palatable in the sense that tastes a bit like Robitussin AC or Chericol cough medicines. There are a few different flavors, Just don't take it too late in the evening as it will rev you up.

https://www.cwimedical.com/proteinex-liquid-protein/proteinex-18-liquid-protein-protein18?sku=54859-530-30EA&_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-OTkvMnr3wIVQ9bACh2DEg2dEAQYAiABEgJ9r_D_BwE

http://www.proteinex.com/product/crocoden-lx/

PollyDee,

Roughly how old are you?

And do you have a coach who can talk to you about workouts and diet?

I'm 57 going on 28! :)

The gym offers a free, one-time coaching session to set up a lifting program - I'm having an aversion to paying for continuous coaching.

57 and 28 are vastly different!

You are fighting metabolism now; most people lose muscle at that age, as well as bone mass. Weights would make a lot of sense. Ideally you would get a coach's help every couple of months so you can change up your workout. Keep things fresh, ensure you address weaknesses systematically.

Another good option is High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). These are workouts that combine bursts of very aggressive exercise (30 or 40 seconds) followed by a couple of minutes of very moderate exercise, again and again for about 10 total rounds. It is way tougher than it sounds. The benefit is that it works your heart really well and also increases hormones and hence muscle.

It may make sense to combine HIIT training and weights. Roy is also right about nutrition. It would be ideal to get some help on that front to ensure your body has the resources it needs to build and maintain muscle.

Congratulations on losing weight and getting in shape. Not easy at 28 let alone 57!

I'm almost 69, and I lift and do aerobic exercise 5 days a week on average. I started at age 35 (1985).

You can build muscle size and strength at your age. Heavy weight (fewer reps) builds muscle size and strength. I'd focus on lifting lighter weights and more reps at first to acclimate your body and soft tissues.

Before beginning any serious lifting program, see a certified trainer and consider purchasing some sessions. It will help you get on the path to achieve what you want, and do it without hurting yourself or doing long term damage.

I agree with this. Lifting can be dangerous if you are new to it.

Putting it bluntly, I'd go with a coach for a few sessions to ensure you figure out your workout. Then 6-8 weeks later have three more sessions to evaluate where you are and devise a new workout. Rinse and repeat.

I'd even get someone to take you through an HIIT workout as well as a weight workout. They are highly complementary.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2019 06:12PM by Lot's Wife.

Thanks, kenc, you have been lifting for 34 years - that is amazing!

It's been quite a while since I trained with weights, so, as you have suggested, I have started with a low weight/high rep routine. And ... there are a lot of newfangled machines that are awesome!

Yes I have been lifting consistently since 1985. I love that you can maintain and gain muscle as long as your joints and other soft tissues allow you to.

Consider using machines instead of diving in to free weights. The newer ones are amazing, helping guard against muscle and tissue damage as you start light and easy and work your way into it.

If this is going to be a life time goal, no need to start out like gang busters. Patiently work your way into it. Seeing results after a few weeks is amazing. Best of everything to you.

Thanks so much! It's been a great! I have no health issues, no medications, normal blood pressure of 110/60, resting heart rate of 65, and wear a size 4/6. I truly feel like I'm 20-something!

I'm athletic and have competed in several sports. I still love to get out and compete, only now, everything has changed. I thought metabolism slowed down as you get older. I'm afraid to try HIIT workouts for long as I can't even keep weight on playing casual games of tennis, volleyball, touch rugby... etc.

I'm sure I can gain weight if I eat a lot of really high sugar/fat combo food and wreak havoc on my health - but what would that accomplish? For me, lifting weights was always a small part of the overall conditioning to compete. I find constant weightlifting to be, uhgg... so slow and boring - I want action!

I want to look like those amazing bodybuilders! How do they get over the rinse and repeat tedium???

Then try crossfit or Olympic lifting instead of the usual stuff.

And seriously, after about age 30 people lose a pound or two of muscle mass every year. That's the effect of diminishing hormones. Lifting and HIIT (which is very similar in terms of effects on hormones and hence muscle) plus good nutrition could stem, or reverse, the losses.

And seriously again, if you are an athlete and get bored with mindless lifting, try something more demanding!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2019 07:05PM by Lot's Wife.

Perhaps do a Google search into the Eas German female bodybuilders/weightlifters of the 1980’s.

They were very good at it and created some incredible bodies.

Perhaps they have some good tips and ideas.

They had the best pharmacology money could buy. Nowadays Russia is better.

As an ex- and future-athlete, PollyDee, you might enjoy the movie Icarus. It's about doping and anti-doping as practiced today--how Russia got banned from the Olympics (if not US electoral politics). The movie starts as a documentary but evolves into a thriller as witnesses and sources start to die or otherwise disappear.

Assuming you don't want to go on the juice, you can get great results through lifting and/or crossfit. There are people in their 50s, 60s, and even 70s who compete in those sports as masters athletes.

Ever think about resuming your competitive career?

No, no, no, no....no juice for me!
The Lord gave me a temple to live within on earth. Once in Heaven I was spirit, but I left my home at birth. I’ll make my temple brighter; I’ll keep my spirit free! My body is the temple my Father gave to me.

If I keep my body clean and pure and habit-free, I may in Father’s temple claim blessings promised me. On resurrection morning, I’ll take my body bright, and in celestial glory forever live in light!

Hence my assumption you wouldn't want to cheat!

No,no... I no longer compete. I have a fierce, competitive streak that is borderline mentally unstable. Which reminds me...I had my first ever ka pakololo on New Years Eve...and a 1/2 dose every night since! It has so mellowed me out, and helps my sleep deprived body fall into a deep, restful slumber. It truly has become my favorite medicinal herb that I use with prudence and thanksgiving!

I spent the last 12 years in a small Montana town without access to a gym, and I gained some weight (not a lot, just enough for insulation against the cold) and lost a lot of my muscle mass. I've moved back to civilization and lost the weight, but just started gaining back my muscle. I'm following The Sculpted Vegan's plan, and I love it. She's one of the few female bodybuilders I've found that provides a workout plan and a meal plan with macros. Bonus for me -- it's vegan =) If you Google her, I'm sure her website will pop up. Lots of free resources on there too. It's changed my mindset and is resculpting my body.

The other program I like is LadyBoss. The founder is also a female bodybuilder. The Sculpted Vegan is a better fit for my goals, but yours may vary.

Good luck =)

Sounds interesting! I look at each of their programs. Thank you so much!

Google, "protein drink scam"

Your body can only use so much protein - the excess goes down the toilet. Though if you collect your urine, you can use the high nitrogen to fertilize grass, like your lawn or the corn you grow. Some countries have urine diverting toilets to collect urine, which farmers spread on their fields.

So you're wondering why fake exercise is boring? Well, because it is fake. You're lifting stuff just to put it back down. Kind of like digging holes so you can fill them up.

Which is why I have an active job, and try to ride a bike to work in summer, and grow a garden, turning compost piles by hand, cutting small hay patches with a scythe, bucking hay bales, etc.
Then in winter, shoveling snow, cutting and stacking and splitting firewood, feeding hay, shoveling cow manure, hauling it off in wheelbarrows, etc.

I prefer digging trenches with a shovel (sandy soil) instead of machines.

The end result is to hopefully get somewhere, or accomplish something, or have something to eat, or have a warm house.

Of course, the goal of most people is to avoid all real work and do fake exercise. Most people I know think I'm crazy doing what I do because it takes effort. Yet they admire those who do fake effort at the gym.

Having said this, I'm not against fake exercise - I was once a distance runner. But most people have trouble sticking with fake - hence the big money selling gym memberships where few attend. At least with distance running I got to go somewhere and see the countryside. As opposed to a treadmill.

Years ago I read a book by an exercise physiologist called Fitness without Exercise. He studied people with active jobs who felt guilty because they didn't go to the gym, but were actually in pretty good shape. Such as plumbers digging up pipelines.

Anyway, you might consider ways to incorporate some reality.

Ohh, wow, Free Man - you're a kindred spirit! I sure miss my farm - all the animals...and my gardens.... ;(
I totally get what you're saying!

This is the first time in my life to have a gym membership. I would truly love to be bucking hay... unfortunately, I'm not living on my farm.. :(

I haven't heard this "fake" exercise argument before. Very few own land these days to even have the tasks a farm creates.

The fitness babes can keep doing fake exercise because they look amazing. When they cross over into too much muscle then it's bit too much. But to each their own.

Just since this last August, I've lost 70 lbs myself (dropping from 263 lbs to 193 lbs). Along the way, I've managed to stay healthy (and get healthier) and have done a lot of research online to find out what the risks and benefits are to different methods of weight loss and exercise.

Without any exercise, you'll still need around at least 0.8 grams of protein per day per pound of body weight. If you exercise, it quickly goes up to over 1 to 1.5g or more. With the amount of weight loss you have had, you are almost for sure doing some serious carbohydrate restriction in your diet. When you seriously restrict carbs, it gets difficult to get enough protein and still keep the carbs low in the process. I do use the whey-based protein drinks and lots of meats myself. Fish seems to be the best source of near pure protien without whey protien. Land-based animal meats bring lots of fats with them. For me though, around 100g of fats per day is okay (and more when I workout). I consider anything more than 50g of carbohydrates per day to be what I call 'carbohydrate posioning' (a remnant of the type-2 diabetis recovery mentality which diabetis seems to be in complete remission for now).

So how to eat when exercising? Eat lots of meats and fish. Fresh green vegetables are still good for their micronutrients. Even if you eat a lot of them, your total daily calorie intake won't go up much. But pay attention to how many calories you're getting from the butter and salad dressings. The fats are good for you. But I don't believe in eating them to excess as the Atkins diet seems to recommend. After restricting my carbs to 50g or less and getting around 150g or so per day of protien, I get the rest of my daily calories from fats. My target of daily food intake as I continue to lose weight is 1200 calories per day. I use an android app to track what I eat and the charts and graphs there make it easy to hit my food intake targets to meet these numbers. As long as you have enough body weight to support your daily energy needs and you stay in ketosis (ketosis not ketoacidosis), this a healthy long-term diet. As I am nearing the end of excess body weight and am also starting to exercise, I am to keeping the diet the same except to increase the fat intake as needed to increase the total dietary calorie intake, and then I also increase proteins proportionate to my daily exercise level.

Try eating half of a bananna before your workout and the other half right after your workout to give you a little more strength and to lessen the burning of protien as a source of energy during the workout (as opposed to the protien being used to repair muscle). That'll give you a little more glucose to burn for your workout only. Eat lots of meat and fish for protien. Work up to heavier weights over time and lift very heavy weights (like maxing out at two to three repetitions and lots of willpower to cause a good slow muscle-burning pain during the lifting), and give yourself a recovery day afterward. Very heavy weights, lots of protien, a recovery day, and months of persistence (just like the diet) should do the trick. The is the plan I am currently working. I still have to run every day to keep the weight loss going (a recent development now that I don't have as much body fat left to lose). By the time I get to 175 lbs, I'll have finished defining my workout routines and will stop the daily running. By that time, I expect to be capable of seriously increasing the weights gradually without hurting myself. If a good workout causes too much weight loss (a nice problem to have from my perspective), I would eat more healthy carbohydrates (more complex carbs), maybe kidney beans for example, a few hours before working out. If there is more glycogen in your system before the workout starts, your body will always take the glycogen instead of breaking down body tissues to metabolize ketones.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2019 07:01AM by azsteve.

Very informative! Thank you, azsteve, and congratulations on your success! You are correct, I initially restricted all carbs to lose weight, but quickly found that I felt and functioned a lot better with some carbs, so I added a couple of tablespoons of complex carbs and 1/2 a fruit each day. As I became more adept at food choices, I found that I could occasionally eat restricted foods and maintain weight loss using good ole portion control.

I especially appreciate the information of coordinating specific foods to eat in conjunction with workouts - I haven't been doing this, but it makes perfect sense that it would help preserve hard earned muscle mass.

I'm excited to try this out, thank you for your insight and best wishes for your continued success!

Polly, do you keep a food/exercise log? It seems helpful for me.

Anyone have insights into *core* strength?

Hi Kathleen - I kept a food log my first year, however, during that time I felt very food centered which bothered me. Eventually my diet became my lifestyle so I don't keep track of food now just my weight. I don"t let my weight get more than 5 lbs above or below my ideal weight.

Core strength is abs, back, the whole midsection. It's often overlooked by people who work at a desk or are weekend warriors. Lack of core resilience manifests in back pain, poor posture, even knee injuries (because the upper body moves at angles that produce dangerous stresses). It's important stuff.

The best "program" for core strength is Pilates, which is excellent; and a lot of yoga studios do it well. Also crossfit and good one-on-one coaching. "Core" is sort of the foundation on which everything else is, or should be, built.

Thanks, LW.
:)

My pleasure, Kathleen!

in b 4 ~ ¿ where are all the links to pics in this thred ? ~


brb ~ ziller be re-installing Windoze Vista so mebe the pics will download now ~


brb ~ brb


thx in advance ~

Ok...Just for you ziller!

This is my ideal - beautifully defined muscles, yet still very feminine!

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/ariel-khadr-rebecca-sizemore-dominique-matthews-missy-farrell-tiffany-picture-id682470484?s=612x612

A few years ago a woman that worked in my research group, got divorced and decided to lose weight and get toned up and had a lot of success and looked great and was in great shape. She explained to me what happened but I forgot the details, she started taking supplements, and some of these supplements were actually doped with steroids. She put on a lot of muscle mass, and started having personality changes and suffered withdrawl symptons if she couldn't lift or take her special supply of suplements. She was very into body building culture but she became a mess to work with in teams, angry, agressive, combative. I moved away from this job but a few years later she called me up to apologize for how she treated me on the job and explained the personality changes were mostly from the hormone doctored supplements she had been given by her body building friends, and the exercise had become an unhealthy addiction. I guess what I am saying is if you are in good shape, healthy weight, avoid getting involved with supplements and over the top training. Especially avoid "special" supplements in Utah, which likely contain more than what you think you are buying.

There is nothing wrong with a woman having a healthy amount of muscle that matches well with her body size. A few years ago, I saw a young average-weight (slightly on the thin side) woman in her twenties pick up a fifty pound bag and load in to a vehicle like it was nothing. I had exerted a significant amount of effort myself to move that same bag earlier that same day and was down-right intimated when seeing how easily she picked it up, especially because she was wearing a dress and looked very feminine and attractive (no big muscles that I could see). If she hadn't picked it up so quickly, I would have offered to move it for her. I probably wouldn't have been able to make it look as easy as she did.

With that said, I don't think that most people (especially the women) need really visibly big muscles to be strong and healthy, and to not look too thin after losing weight. But body building techniques are probably the most helpful to get from not-enough muscle in to an optimal range. But I would never use any body-enhancing drugs to get bigger muscles. They screw with your moods and are likely to be un-healthy in the long run. They might even make a woman become somewhat masculine (not sure about that though).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2019 08:17AM by azsteve.

At post-menopausal age another health issue women deal with is bone density loss. Calcium supplements offset that in addition to walking and other cross-training exercises.

For body building, gaining some weight when you're at an ideal weight isn't entirely a negative if that is your goal. Fat converts into muscle during strength training. A toned shapely figure that has curves that may be a bit fuller is still healthier than flab, with increased energy overall.

The line of women in the lineup from the link posted by PollyDee still look feminine. I have seen some female body builders with arms and legs that look like they belonged on a man. Either way though, maintaining that kind of a body would require a significant amount of daily work. I think the biggest challenge to the average woman who wants to body build has to do with the level of self-inflicted pain required to get there (day-in day-out, month-in month-out). Bearing children is probably more painful than anything the average guy will ever experience. But weight lifting is self-inflicted pain (sometimes severe pain) in every moment, all of the way through each and every repetition over periods of months and years. Most men probably have a natural aggression level and natural muscle-growth response fed by testosterone, that might make that process a bit easier for them. Even then, it's difficult. But everything else being equal, I think the average guy would rather be with an average woman than with one of the women in that linup of body builder women.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2019 03:27PM by azsteve.

How many body builders, male or female, resort to steroid use in order to achieve that muscular mass appearance? Isn't it pretty common in that field that they engage in steroid use and other substance use? The photo pic looks pretty muscular to me too, albeit somewhat feminine.

Nothing wrong w/ losing fat, let's say 10% of body fat or less would be great for anyone. If you're losing muscle, however, you are in a catabolic state most of the time then. Need to stay out of catabolism by increasing your daily calories to the point that you stop losing muscle mass. Bodybuilders ingest about 1.5g of protein per pound of body weight daily. Sipping on BCAA's throughout the day keep you from going catabolic, but protein intake in the form of fish/chicken/tuna/red meat and about 2-3 protein sakes per day is optimum. Remember the most important time to drink a 30g protein shake is right when you get up in the morning, 20 min before your workout, and 20 minutes after. Also ensure you have a meal 1.5 hours prior to your work out, and another meal 1.5 hours after your workout.

I have been bodybuilding for years, and at 53, I bench press 400 pounds, do 60 min of cardio every morning, and workout w/ weight 6 days per week. No, I am not a woman, but same principles apply to women per se' as men.

Anonexmo Wrote:
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> If you're
> losing muscle, however, you are in a catabolic
> state ...



Do you mean North Sentinal Island?