It's all lies I tell you! All made up by evil apostates that want to trick you to leave the church... err 'Church!' Only listen to 'Authorized' church... err 'Church' sources!!!

That pretty much sums up the last worldwide devotional.

https://www.mormonstories.org/truth-claims/joseph-smith/treasure/

Basically, the 'Church' is trying to get members to the point to where when you bring something up, they reply with: "Yeah, so? I already knew about that and the 'Church' has settled it. What else you got?"

You are an adult and have the basic RIGHT to gather information from where you see fit. If anyone tells you to only listen to them, and nobody else, that should be a major red flag. Don't put up with it, not only in your spiritual life, but your job, your business, and your friends and family.

Wouldn't you be highly suspicious if one of your kids told you to don't listen to the other one and just listen to them? Same goes for everything else.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard from my wife, in-laws, and missionaries the old trope about not trusting info from a Chevy dealer if you wanted to know about Fords.

"Nor would I trust the Ford dealer," I tell them, "I'd rather go to the person who used to drive a Ford and ask why he's now driving a Chevy."

Is there a religious equivalent of Consumer Reports or CarFax?

Nice analogy.

I know I would be suspicious if I was told to ONLY listen to o person/thing etch and not another. Funny enough, I cannot remember if I was told that exactly when I was in TSCC. T
This I do remember...

Being asked if I read Anti-Mormon Literature. When I was asked such, there would always be a question mark on my face because I had no idea as to what that was.

In the ward that I used to be in before I left, the bishop would give us a monthly challenge. In the beginning of the year, our challenge would be to "Fast From the World." (Has anyone else here heard of such a thing?) So basically, we would go a month without watching television, listening to music, or reading books, unless what we listened to, watched or read were all church related.
On a similar note, in a relief society class, we were advised to not listen to music and watch television that much, but to focus on church related materials more.
In hindsight, it seemed just a way to brainwash ourselves and to remain brainwashed. Because if you're solely diving into Mormon material, that will be all you know, and probably all you'll think about.
Operative word being "probably." I could be wrong. But from my observations during my 11-12 stint in the morg, those are my observations.

LOL!

"An ordained seer like my husband..."
https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/watch/worldwide-devotionals/2019/01?lang=eng&vid=5989053995001

I thought a "panel" was not what the above linked video was.

Mormonism going forward being backwards, insulated, and ignorant of information that it doesn't like.

Treating people like little children since 1830.

Just more of the same "facts don't matter" approach to doubting your doubts.

Wow! The irony of comparing the Morg to an old man in an old boat.

"Do dents and peeling paint on the Church change its ability to provide authorized saving and exalting ordinances to help us become like our Father in Heaven? If the fisherman must hold on to the rudder with both hands to keep it on course, does that negate his and the boat’s ability to get us safely and reliably where we want to go? You do not have to be an ordained seer like my husband to know that slipping back into the water instead of staying in the boat is risky."
https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/satellite-training-broadcast/2018/06/doubt-not-but-be-believing?lang=eng


"If the fisherman must hold on to the rudder with both hands to keep it on course, does that negate his and the boat’s ability to get us safely and reliably where we want to go?"

Yep. Hold onto that rudder with both hands as the church pays for your trip to Japan.

https://www.lds.org/church/news/elder-renlund-sees-evidence-of-literal-change-of-heart-in-asia?lang=eng

And then here is another hand-jarring rudder handling to get to Italy where that old dented and beat up temple was being built!

https://www.ldsdaily.com/church-lds/elder-sister-renlund-tour-rome-italy-temple-construction-site/

“You do not have to be an ordained seer like my husband to know that slipping back into the water instead of staying in the boat is risky.”

I’ll bet she says that to all the fish.

Is that some hot tuna he's got or is he just happy to see me?

...especially when one considers that: (1) there is no evidence indicating that the crappy boat is "on course" no matter how many hands the fisherman uses to hold the rudder; (2) there is no reason to think that the boat is the only boat there is; (3) there is no reason to believe that the fisherman knows what he's doing or where he's going; (4) there's good reason to believe that the crappy boat may sink before it gets safely to shore at a desirable destination; and (5) it would be wise to get on a better boat at the very first opportunity in any case, rather than putting your life in the hands of a fisherman who has changed course so often that it has become clear that he's lost at sea.

That is a terrible parable about jumping out of the boat because of peeling paint.

Here's how I see it and this one is 100% true.

Imagine dropping off your teenage son or daughter at the ward meetinghouse for 6 am seminary. Down the darkened hall is an older sister that is greeting each and every one of them with cheerfulness and glee. What is not readily visible is an older man sitting in the shadows of the foyer. Nobody really knows who he is, but he is there every morning. He never says a word, but is always watching.

You assume that the church has your child's best interest in mind. After all, this is serious business about keeping the youth on the straight and narrow. And then you're outraged.

You've just learned that the old man is the seminary teacher's husband. And he no longer is a member. In fact, he's a registered sex offender. According to the man, he's there to protect his wife and the youth from terrible evils that may break into the church and harm the saints.

Not one, not two, not three, but four!

That's the number of grand children that he was convicted of sexually molesing (one as young as 16 months) after a criminal trial. He molested four of his own grandchildren from his own daughters. Sick!

The sister has since been released after parents refused to send their children.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2019 04:30PM by messygoop.

With information now readily available, there seems to be less of an attempt for TSCC to dispute the facts and more of an attempt to tell me how I should feel about those facts. Excuse me church, but I will feel disgusted and bewildered by the facts if I want. Don’t tell me how I should feel.

Shaken Faith Syndrome? They've got a book to help with that...

Snickers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wouldn't you be highly suspicious if one of your
> kids told you to don't listen to the other one and
> just listen to them? Same goes for everything
> else.

My daughter just sent a mission email gushing about The Relund's Devotional. She said they were given "permission" to watch it.

Isolated in a foreign country and insulated in indoctrination yet she would never I belief tell me to only listen to her and no other competing voices. Yet this "apostle" gets to fill her head with craaazy talk like doubts don't help with faith (something like that she wrote in her email.) Same as you wrote - "don't listen to the other one." So sad. I'm so sad.

I kind of think the LDS leaders would like to present the facts without any consideration of the implications of the facts.

If you know Joseph Smith's first vision has multiple accounts, you might be able to retain your testimony--as long as you don't stop to consider the significance of the contradictions between the accounts. It's the difference between Joseph Smith's own feeling of forgiveness for his sins and the huge implications of God rendering his personal seal of disapproval on all other religions and raising up Joseph Smith as the prophet supreme.

As many of you know, you can read the evidence to Mormons, but if they are dug in they won't think through the implications.

In that situation, it actually IS a good idea to stay in the boat, at least for now.

It's NOT a black and white situation. That's stupid to present it like that.

You stay in the boat until there is a better solution or it sinks.

OR, if you don't care about your soul and you KNOW which way the shore is, you just kill the old guy, dump his body, and steer the boat towards the right direction.

Otherwise, look to see if there is anything you can use as a life jacket or a floatation device if it sinks, make sure you have a hold of it, and look for better options. If you see another boat that's in good condition and will heed you (come close to you), abandon ship and get on the better boat instead.

It's not as black and white as presented.

Awesome post! Great way to put it. No one really invested in Mormonism just jumps back into the water that Mormonism was supposedly saving them from!

Also, in thinking about your post it occurred to me that this is just their same shiz spun in a parable. They preach that members leaving want to sin or get offended.

Offended = condition of the man and his boat.
Sin = meat and chocolate instead of stale crackers.