When my baptismal interview asked about abortion, I just lied. I had had one, at a very young age, at an extremely early point in the pregnancy. And when the question came, I just lied and said no.

When the Bishop asked if I were paying a "full and honest tithe" again I just lied and said 'yes'.

I wasn't going to share my deepest secrets with some organization, even my parents never knew about the pregnancy...and I wasn't about to hand over 10% of my income, to folks I didn't even know.

I just wonder why more people don't just lie for these intrusive questions? Wouldn't it just be easier? Or is my moral code just too flexible?

Lying was my mother's solution to the LDS problem of perfection. They don't call it perfection but "worthiness" and even in their very broad and general sense it is still an impossible standard.

I didn't like lying to relative strangers about my personal life. Maybe it is my personality but if I'm going to lie to someone about my personal life I want it to be something I find needful and not just to assuage my mother.

What I didn't know as a child was how much personal information people in the ward knew about it other. In a large sprawling geographic area wards are little villages or small towns. Everyone knows everyone and everyone's business. But I was only aware of a fraction of that information because I was an ignorant child.


It boils down wanting to lie for myself. I obviously didn't care enough about the "villagers" in my ward to lie. I definitely lied about my sexual orientation for myself.

One of my main gripes about the church is that it rewards lying.

Those of us who are painfully honest pay a heavy cost.

I hope that you feel no guilt for dealing with a sick system in the way that you did.

I hope you feel no guilt for being in a bad situation when the abortion happened.

If you're a person who ponders their moral code, I'm thinking yours is just fine.

The church obfuscates and lies to you, so they are setting the standards. They don't deserve honesty.

The problem in your case, IMO, is how to determine where to draw the line and define honestly. That is a personal decision.


Honestly, maybe the church isn't important enough to bother lying to anymore. They deserve answers like "none of your business" instead. It's their problem if no one wants to answer their dumb intrusive baptism questions and they walk away. They need you more than you need them.

I had a bishop that recorded every interview with a notebook. He had a file with his hand written notes that he would momentarily glean over.

He could trap you in lies over innocent stuff; ie Which scriptures are you studying?

And you might say D&C. And he would look at notes from previous notes and say, "That's strange. I thought you said that you were reading the BoM." Then he would make a snide remark such as "Well I guess 10 year olds are not very good with their study habits. That's why the Lord is always disappointed with you."

If you lied, then you had to remember your story.

That is messed up. Usually church just IMPLIES that God is always disappointed in you.

I remember the exact moment I told Mormon Gawd, "I am fine. I'm not broken or evil. I don't need to pray more or try harder. I don't need church to be a good person. I'm a good person to my core and I always will be."

I was 42.

I'm so glad you found your way out of that mindf#@k.

I feel sympathy for any young Mormon who doesn't realize that lying is their best option to navigate such a difficult situation where the odds are stacked against you.

All my interviews were conducted by my father the bishop--a double whammy for sure-- and I lied though I didn't have much to lie about. I could tell he really believed me. I had a very innocent quality about me. But to quote Britney Spears, " I'm not that innocent."

Problem is because of this Mormonism teaches you to be manipulative. This is a good thing to have in your quiver as an ability for once in a while when you need it, but not a good way to operate your life in general when it comes to relationships that count. Still everyone has a right to their own information about themselves and don't really owe anyone to tell all.

So, very me, "Why not just lie?" is a very complicated question.

If I had to lie my way through a baptismal interview it wouldn't be worth my time or bother to invest in any church where I felt that lying was compulsory in order to be accepted.

If it helps you get through a difficult chapter, go with it.

I'd leave first than subject myself to that invasion of privacy and to obfuscation of truth.

How do you think the General Authorities have risen to become General Authorities? If they hadn't lied there would be a record somewhere with all of their misdemeanors which would have disqualified them.

Ding!!! Ding!!! Ding!!!

And, you have just won the Answer Of The Day award!!!

For most people, lying causes an internal conflict.
Kind of a cognitive dissonance.

However, when it comes to the Mormon church, it's founder set the example...lie when it benefits you.

So you can consider lying as complying with Mormon doctrine.

Just consider it lying for the Lord.

Ding! Ding! Ding!


A double winner for answer of the day!

It seems to me that's why people leave TSCC are because of the lies.

It isn't lies that keep them there. It's the lies that drive them away.

For those who value honesty that is more than appearances.

If it's truth you are seeking after as the scriptures advise, ask and ye shall find. "Knock and it shall be opened," etc.

I say it's time to break the chains of generational bondage for my family. I'm not the first one to, and won't be the last. It has to start somewhere. May as well start here.

Like abuse. It's cyclical unless/until someone breaks the chains and says "enough." Once you know Joseph Smith was a liar and a charlatan, what else is there to know about TSCC? Every church aka cult leader that's followed is/has been a false prophet.

+100
The lies drove me out. All the remaining members are either liars, predators or the gullible.
Honest saved me, and I really believe it is the best policy.

Anon for this one Wrote:
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> I just wonder why more people don't just lie for
> these intrusive questions?

Why would you think they don't? ;)

Mormons are essentially taught that priesthood leaders are inspired and are very good at spotting lies. When I was a believer, I never thought to lie mostly because I thought it would be pointless. I'd be found out anyway by a priesthood leader who could read my thoughts.

Also, there were continual reinforcement lessons that you would stand at the bar of judgement and Jesus, your advocate wouldn't be able to explain/rationalize your misdeeds (and lies).

Then factor in songs like "Do what is right" and remember the lyric of all those angels silently note taking.

There's a lot of mind twist to scare you into confessing to overzealous PH leaders.

This was me. Too scared of the eternal repercussions.

want2bx Wrote:
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> I was a believer, I never thought to
> lie mostly because I thought it would be
> pointless. I'd be found out anyway by a priesthood
> leader who could read my thoughts.

Wow! Scary!

A good example of their inspiration is Mark Hofmann. Hinckley had him pegged as a liar and a cheat from the get go.

I remember when BYU announced that members who worked there would henceforth be required to hold a current TR. There was a letter written to the editor of the Provo Daily Herald who objected to such a strict policy, stating that it would only create "skillful liars" in order to keep their jobs. And I am sure it has.

men have a philosophy that women may not be aware of. when my wife tells me i am a liar i tell her i am not lying, i am just not telling the truth. there is a difference.

This is my hubby to a T. I didn't know it was all men. Please tell me it's not.

Its not.

And what is the difference between lying and not telling the truth?

If you feel you need to lie to join an organization that is supposedly going to help you be a better, happier person.....

shouldn't that be a big red flag?

Better solution - don't put yourself in that position. If those are the ground rules, just opt out. I know, easier said than done, but it seems like a better goal than rationalizing lying because they lie to you. That just inserts you into their toxic stew. Ewww.

LDS Inc is in fact good at creating skillful liars. The number of fraud cases coming out of Utah is by no means a coincidence. Most recent big one was Rust Coin, which was running a ponzi scheme supposedly investing in precious metals. Losses are about $200 million, and the usual stories about "we lost our entire life's savings" are on the news. My thought is "Your entire life's savings? Duh! Stupidity and greed are a dangerous combination".

You can lie about everything except what they have records of. To a certain extent you can get away with claiming you pay 10% if they really have no idea what you make. But if you only pay $1,000/year and live in a half-million dollar home, it's a little harder. Or in my case, I quit paying long before I resigned and would get pissed when asked to come to tithing settlement. I would tell the clerk who called to set up an appointment that if the bishop couldn't figure out whether I was a full tithe payer or not, the church was in trouble.

As far as any other questions for a temple recommend, yeah, just lie. Most people do. You can be having an affair with other people who are in the temple, you can have a gay lover, you can be a super crooked businessman who defrauds the government, you can know for sure that Prophet Rusty is a fraud, etc. Especially if you know it's all bunk and know that being there to keep peace in the family or to see a loved one married, I believe it's more honorable to lie and be there. No one's going to strike you dead because it's total bunk.

you are right, your abortion is no one's business. I know someone who had an abortion, they could of died if they continued being pregnant. Now the tithing part, you could of been paying some money to the homeless pets and the Mormon church would of said that doesn't count as tithing. I did, I paid to st judes, homeless pets and redcross. but that's not good enough for the Mormon church. it only counts as tithing if it is paid to the Mormon church so they can invest in their real estate and pay the GA so they can afford a second home.

I stopped giving interviews by the time I was 17, so the Mormons never had a chance to ask if I paid tithing. I never got married, or went on a mission and never wanted to participate in masonry, so I was never had to lie

frankie Wrote:

> I paid to st judes, homeless pets and redcross. but
> that's not good enough for the Mormon church. it
> only counts as tithing if it is paid to the Mormon
> church so they can invest in their real estate and
> pay the GA so they can afford a second home.

I agree with you, Frankie. I didn't see I should spend my hard-earned money on these well-fed Mo's when there is serious, desperate need in things like homeless pets, disasters, etc.

Thank goodness for the Board helping me see it is all a SCAM!!!

I value my integrity, but I had no reservations about lying to Mormons. I actually enjoyed lying to them, as a passive-aggressive way for a little female "nobody" to get even with them. Never, for one second did I feel I was lying to God. I believed in God, and Christ, but never believed that they had anything to do with Mormonism, at all.

I even lied in the temple, during the blood oaths. I actually had my fingers crossed behind my back, and was saying in my mind, "Please, God, I don't mean this!"

I felt intimidated by those interviews, but I was never worried that I would not be granted a temple recommend. I knew that the Mormons wanted my money, and I was willing to pay for my temple recommend, and that was all that was going to matter to them.

If I had not gotten a temple recommend, my TBM husband would have beaten me (again). If I had not gotten a temple recommend another time, I would have not been allowed to attend my daughter's temple wedding. So, I lied and made a huge donation to the Mormon cult.

The questions are odd, in their convoluted wording, and perhaps this makes it easier for Mormons to lie. The questions, I'm sure, are handed down in written form from the corporate headquarters, and either read or memorized by the bishop. Some examples of these are:

"Do you associate with apostates or any apostate groups?" Well these conglomerate sentences are just weird. Associating with an apostate GROUP, such as a polygamous group or an organized protest group is different than associating with individual family-member apostates. And, what does "associating with" mean? I more than associate with them, I love them, and I live for them. What's an apostate, anyway? Apostates are the finest people I know. They aren't criminals. God seems to love them. Was I supposed to answer this loaded double-question with a simple yes or no? I hesitated, and chose "no", because I do not associate with any apostate group.

"Do you believe that Joseph was a prophet of God and that the COJCOLDS church is the only true church on this earth, and all the other churches are false?" (I suspect my bishop was taking license with these words, to trip me up.) At the time, I believed that JS was a prophet, but I had been to other churches, and believed them to be just as "true" as the Mormon church. The members were good people, and they were doing good, to help others, and worship Christ and God, and I felt there was nothing "false" about them. Again, I answered only part of this triple question question, the part that was a "Yes."

"Are you sexually moral?" or whatever that question is. Well, sitting here, right now, "yes."

"Do you obey the word of wisdom?" "Yes." Nobody is sure what-the-heck that is, these days. Is diet Pepsi OK and Coke not OK? If you heated these as a hot drink, would they be not-OK? What about iced tea? Valium? Too much meat? What about all the Mormon leaders who are obese?

Was I horrible, to treat this whole thing as a joke? Should I have shown respect to liars and money grabbers who hijacked my daughter's wedding, and were plotting to steal my money, as we spoke?

No one knew I lied. How many other Mormons in my same situation felt the same way, and lied? We'll never know.

exminion Wrote:

> Was I horrible, to treat this whole thing as a
> joke? Should I have shown respect to liars and
> money grabbers who hijacked my daughter's wedding,
> and were plotting to steal my money, as we spoke?

Ex,

Your life is very interesting but also seems to have been very painful at times. I am glad you are here on the Board to share your stories and help others like me.

I liked your approach to those questions!

By the time a person reaches mid-adulthood, they should have been able to throw-off the parts of their lives that they got from their parents and family that don't work for them. At that point, the lieing should be over for the most-part. It is difficult to lie to others and to remain honest with yourself at the same time. Lieing isn't just about FAKE news, it's about FAKE people too. Why even bother lieing? The key to getting what you want is to be able to ask for what you want. If you have to lie about who you are and what you want, life gets difficult to live and is frustrating.

+1
Completely agree. There is no excuse for any middle aged person to attend the TSCC. It was a tough day when I realized how much further I had progressed beyond my parents. I hope my kids experience that too.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The key to getting what you want is to be able to ask for what you want. If you have to lie about who you are and what you
> want, life gets difficult to live and is frustrating.

Good insight, thanks az steve. Good to remember.

Because I was a sucker and believed lying was a sin. And also that the leaders could see into my soul and know I was lying.

Kerri (mamato4) Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And also that the leaders could see into my
> soul and know I was lying.

Interesting why they don't just sit and stare at you not speaking or asking any questions and just "discern" you?

That anyone would even ask those questions with the belief that they had the right to ask and then judge you is seriously warped. If you volunteered the information I should think the only question the bishop should ask you is if you needed any help from him but then and ONLY then.

I always paid a full tithing but I never went to tithing settlement because I felt it was between me and the Lord and no one else needed to judge my position with Him but Him. The whole idea of judging someone better or worse because of the money they donated just always seemed wrong.

my DW, who I've alway loved, was caught in a Boldface lie in her divorce filings / statements Financial submissions;

I showed them to our Bp who agreed they were false/misleading (didn't agree with statements from her employer!)

her False stmnts severely disadvantaged me..


ChurchCo: No Big Deal, Nothing; Temple Recommend Knowingly granted!

GNPE,
Lying to lying liars of churchdum can be fun, but what happened to you is terrible. I’m sorry that she did that to you. It was stealing.

Used to tell my students—-if you steal, it will come out of your account, and it may not be your bank account.


(didn’t mean to derail anything here)

Kathleen:
I'd like to chat with U, my email is public.

I did lie -- for *years*. Five straight years at BYU, in my application beforehand and every stupid Ecclesiastical Endorsement meeting. I pretended I believed in the whole Mormon fairy tale, when in truth I became a decided atheist my first year there.

But I dunno, it bothered me. It was like my entire existence turned into this elaborate fabrication that was exhausting to maintain all the time. Like I could never just be ME, because then I'd get kicked out of school and shamed by my entire family. Maybe some people are okay with lying constantly. But I wasn't; it made me feel like a fake person. And that feeling was worse than anything else.

they are talking about Joshua trees.

Anyway, I bought into the ability for leaders having discernment. I also am not a good liar. I'm too easy to read, especially in person. I can't lie with traffic "tickets" either. Better for me to not lie as I'm treated better by cops if I don't lie.

You didn't have my ick bishop I had in my teens either. He'd stare you down after you answered even if you were telling the truth. He was a true pervert. He died a year ago I believe. I rejoiced.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> they are talking about Joshua trees.

Yes, I have seen an article that is really sad, that because of the government shutdown people took their off-road vehicles and destroyed centuries-old trees that will never re-grow in our lifetimes.

My hope and enthusiasm about churches and god and religion seems a little parallel to that---destroyed by the Moron church, will never regrow. And I agree, shouldn't be asked those questions in the first place, what right do they have? And lying is Not a good option for all the reasons you say.

I have a rule. I never lie to anyone that has not lied to me. Once you lie to me, all bets are off (and I am probably better at lying than you because TSCC taught me to lie so well :))

icanseethelight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a rule. I never lie to anyone that has not
> lied to me.

This is a very good rule to remember, thanks Light!

Any religion that pushes its followers to lie, really that's all you need to know about it.

well said, and I so agree.

I was taught to lie in my home, both by example and direction, and then I discovered that lying was the l4th Article of Faith in the MormonCult, a place I thought was safe and different from my home.

Lying, if you grow up being groomed to make it part of your make-up, is very difficult to change. Perhaps, it is always difficult to change no matter what. I don't know.

What I do know is that truth and honesty feel much better to me.

How I look at the MormonCult now is that lying, half-truths, and cons are so prolific in this organization it makes it impossible to pick out a truth statement should there ever be one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 10:15PM by presleynfactsrock.

presleynfactsrock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How I look at the MormonCult now is that lying,
> half-truths, and cons are so prolific in this
> organization it makes it impossible to pick out a
> truth statement should there ever be one.

MormonCult may be the one true "Christian" religion to teach humans the virtues of lying for their lord and as such (with all their convoluted and gob smacking of the human psyche) make it the defacto nihilistic Christianity at the edge of Christianity and Christian religious beliefs to push people beyond belief.

They think they are converting dead people. Their gods have human bodies. They make lying a virtue and their sin next to murder isn't as bad a sin as drinking alcohol. They brought polygamy back from the dead in The Western World.

All in all, with their continuing Christian lies (revelation) about the world as it becomes more and more revealed in modernity Mormonism has become one of the most significant "Stakes" into the heart of a belief in Jesus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2019 11:18AM by Elder Berry.

Mormonism is hardly Christian, so this doesn't apply.

How so? They claim Jesus.

> How so? They claim Jesus.

Islam can claim Jesus too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam

But no one is confused that Islam is a branch of Christianity :)

What specifically is claimed defines religions.

Of course, Edelman did an impressive job blowing smoke here..

My husband lies to my dog.

Little Jack hides in his box if he thinks he has to ride in the car. So I tell Jack, "Jack, my love, we are going in the car. Do you want to go, or would you rather get in your box?" He runs, and gets in his box.

My husband, on the other hand, jiggles the car keys ANYTIME he wants Jack to go to bed.

Totally unnecessary. You just say, "Jack, it's time for bed." And he gets in bed.

I keep asking my husband, "Please don't lie to my dog. Just teach him the right commands."

But, no. He lies to the dog.

Please don't get me wrong, my husband is wonderful. He just lies to the dog.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2019 12:31PM by kathleen.

Well, if you don't believe in the church then it would make sense to just lie, but if you believe in it, then you think you need to tell the truth.

Not if you have your second anointing...

I knew I wasn't going to "pass" my last temple recommend interview but lying never occurred to me. I wanted to get things off my chest I needed to be honest for myself and I'm so grateful I did! Losing my temple recommend gave me the freedom to figure out what I really believed. There was no longer anything left to lose.

Landed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was no longer anything left to lose.

And that, right there, is why the "shunning" and "disfellowshipping" are stupid.

It would be smarter of TSCC to leave members with SOMETHING to lose, they might then still stay in, stay obeying and paying.

I wonder what your Bp would have done if U told the truth about your abortion;

isn't Baptism supposed to be for cleansing / remission of sins?


I guess maybe that's been mainstreamed out of consideration now that we have 'correlation'!

All the sects of judaism, christianity and islam have one thing in common: they consider hypocrisy to be the greatest virtue.

I have no recollection of being asked (or have blocked out the memory) if I masturbated in my various worthiness interviews back in my formative years. I would have said no to the question. None of anyone else's business.
I know I was never asked if I paid my tithing. I have never paid the cult a cent.