Those wimmins is jus gittin all kinds of special rights these days, dad gummit! /s



"The veil announcement parallels changes made in the temple ceremony itself. Before this year, at some point in the rites, women were expected to cover their faces with a veil. That was eliminated in the latest alterations."

"It is unclear when the tradition of covering a woman’s face before burial began within Mormonism."

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/01/29/heels-temple-changes/?fbclid=IwAR0cAjTkwVs-Dgg3bkBIkhAqdJwCmBjg8RwJfqTkpsp_kiL5N6uLB3mQJm8

Well, grandma needs digging up. Can't have her covered when she rises in The Morning of The First Resurrection!

Unless she requested it, cuz it's now optional. I suspect that in practice, nothing will really change, and the ones not veiled will just be seen as less-than.

LOL! Dead people can be so vain.

LOL

My mother died in 1980 and I have a sister who was a member but not TBM (until later).

When funeral day arrived, sister Kaye was very surprised to watch them veil mom's face and close the coffin. She had never heard of that and it just surprised her and she had to ask questions about it. Like I knew anything.

She's always been quite a writer and I'm sure she's got all of her experiences in many volumes of a journal somewhere.

My deceased cousin appeared to me after she was buried in her temple clothes months after her funeral, in a dream. She was still wearing her temple clothing, without the veil on. It looked a little soiled. She was a spirit not at peace. In fact she was in torment!

She lived in torment, and died in torment. Guess that was her way of letting me know she hadn't crossed over to the other side. She left a lot of unresolved and hurt feelings here when she checked out. Namely her immediate family. Not me. I was a conduit because I went to the funeral to support her mother who she hadn't spoken to in over 30 years.

It was a very sad funeral for all of us present. Her temple veil at the ceremony was placed over her face by her siblings and husband before the chapel service. It was a touching service. The family was very loving and tender toward her despsite her animosity toward them.

The siblings formed a band around her coffin with their arms around each others waists to say their last goodbyes. I wish my own immediate family were that loving. My brother's funeral last fall was nothing like that. His wife had a showing for his side of the family. Then her side of the family. Weird. She's always been divisive that way, so nothing new there.

He was buried in his temple clothes too. That white cap on top of his head, I'm sorry but it just looked ridiculous. I mean he's dead for God's sake! Give it a rest already.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2019 01:31PM by Amyjo.

I wonder if you can get white clown shoes.

As God is my judge, my cousin looked like a bride out of hell. She looked demonic. Her soul was not in paradise. If she died how she lived, she may be in a state of eternal torment.

Her TBM family likes to believe she's cured on the other side. Based on her visitation, I'm not so sure about that. I tried sending her to the other side by purging my house with sage and lavendar and reciting prayers. I told her it's alright to go toward the light. I felt her spirit here for a few days after her initial visit, like she was in a state of flux and confusion.

I'm hopeful that she's moved on.

Quite the imagination. Nobody dead has visited me. Ever.

Maybe if you decorated your house with sage and lavender?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2019 03:56PM by Lot's Wife.

AmyJo might still be TBM at heart?

Anyway I had an uncle who was very rich but Jack-Mo and after his passing he supposedly came in a dream to niece inheritor and told her we shouldn't fight over the money and it doesn't matter and all that matters is that they do his work for him in the Temple. Millenium, mormonism, bla bla bla!

This was a very convenient dream to the one who ended up getting the booty and the rest of the family was suppose to feel validated by that?

Mormonism is a complex skein of beliefs and habits. A person can leave and unravel some of the threads without realizing that many others remain in place.

I recall a story of a father dying and he left an insurance policy to one of his children. A sibling then said they had a dream and that the father told her that half the life insurance money should be given to this child.

So the two siblings talk and the dream story is told. The other sibling simply said they did not have the same dream. So, tough shit.

Seeing a spirit isn't TBM.

My cousin wasn't in some paradisical glory on the other side as a TBM was my point, and she would have been if her religion were in fact as real to her as she believed it was. Her soul was trapped and in some kind of turmoil. She was not at peace.

That came after, not before.

Actually, you burn the sage. It’s a thing, you can look it up. They sage buildings where bad things happened.

I might have better luck smoking DMT to cross ober through the veil.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Phazer, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

There are many unexplained things that people claim that happen to them.

Dreams do occur. Whether the content in those dreams or visions is just the uninhibited unrestrained imagination of our minds that can manifest things so real to have meaning or just the extraordinary nonsense easily forgotten. Depends on your mood and state of mind.

Ive never been a big believer in ghosts based on experience of never having anyone that I was close to visit me after death.

When I was a believer spirits hanging around Earth haunting houses didnt make sense unless they were the devils here trying to screw us up in order to not have eternal life and be miserable. TheDead Aunt hanging around the old ranch house having haunting adventures did not make sense to me because I would believe that she had to be back in the spirit world teaching church shit or banished to suffering in spirit prison.

I enjoy hollywood preying on all the religeous minds making horror films tied to the demonic themes. They always make money with the gore blood and guts. If you are a believer you would think more evil possessions would occcur on the movie set because that are pratucally conjurinng up these moods and glorification of evil. Yet it does not happen. Its just another job, a gory monster, a cgi devil animated on a computer. Just entertainment.

Phazer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quite the imagination. Nobody dead has visited me.
> Ever.

I think it was more than the imagination. When she appeared her eyes were black like coal, without any whites to them. Her teeth were pointy like fangs almost.

She grabbed my wrists with both her hands and I felt jolts like electricity run through them. It was frightening as all getup.

I relayed to my cousin (her sister,) a little of what had happened. Her response (she is TBM,) was that well you know she would want you to go back to TSCC. Her appearing to you was because she isn't happy that you left it.

It wasn't about that at all. It was because I went to the funeral to support her mom she hadn't spoken to in over 30+ years. She was still angry with her mom when she died. She took her anger to the grave.

It was unresolved anger when she came to haunt me. That was why I did a cleansing, non TBM style. A reminder to me to make peace as much as possible before it's my time to go with those in my sphere of influence. Who would want to die with so much unresolved conflict? My cousin was a TBM returned mishie, temple married. Yet her life was unfulfilled and unhappy because of who she shut out, namely her family.

Did TSCC save her soul? I question whether it helped or hindered her spiritual progression.

Did it take you a long time to become So judgmental and disparaging of what you do not agree with? Or is that just a hangover from your time as a TBM?

WAY past due! In fact, it never should have been required!

Going further, the whole temple experience is antiquated and useless!


When my husband passed away, I made sure he didn't have any of that clothing on--especially that d-m green apron, and the baker's hat.

I have also told my children the same for me!

The fact that the LDS Church extends its control over its members to what they are allowed to wear after they are dead is all you need to know.

Yes, THIS! ^^^

Perhaps the 1st saint that died and visited the temple wasn't a real looker or looked real bad that even makeup couldn't fix when she died and so the tradition of covering the woman's face at burial was started.

Too bad death masks weren't a thing for humans to record death and so common The Mormons could use them in their temple.

LORD: Will you give it to me?

PETER: I will, through the veil.

The person then puts the death mask to their face and peeks through the veil.

So none it matter in the first place (no kidding!)

How did Jesus Christ who is the head of the Mormon Church let an eternal ordinance like the temple stuff go on so long when it was not right?

...before burial began within Mormonism."

It's just unclear, you know.

They said the same thing when Kimball got around to canceling the ban on black people holding the priesthood and going to the temple.

It was "unclear" and nobody knew exactly how or why the "practice" was introduced. You see, it's not important. It has no particular significance. It's just a "tradition" or "practice" of unknown origin and, after 150 years or so of it being an integral part of certain of the faith's most important rituals and beliefs, it was discarded.

You see, it's just like those weird couplets that somehow found their way into official lesson manuals and general conference talks and were repeated year after year, generation after generation. Couplets, you know. Those pesky little couplets can have a mind of their own.

I mean, it's not like they have a prophet or anything to help avoid situations where uninspired "practices" and "traditions" and "couplets" just somehow find their way into rituals, ordinances and policies and doctrinal pronouncements that are centerpieces of the LDS faith.

You know, they're just muddling around like everyone else, just cobbling things together without the benefit of divine inspiration. It's not like Jesus himself supervised the establishment of the church or ever attempted to reveal true and correct practices, traditions and ordinances into it. They don't make any claims like that, do they? They don't claim to have any special inspiration or leadership, as far as I know.

So take it easy, man. They're just nice people who make mistakes. Next thing you'll probably try to push some conspiracy theory that they had a guy who proclaimed that he was a real prophet and was their top leader, who spent decades trying to persuade the members of the church to pray to and worship a guy who was not really the god they were supposed to be praying to and worshiping. That would obviously be nothing but a crazy conspiracy theory. Too absurd to take seriously. Something like that would never have happened.

I saw this story in lds living and just about shit myself. how fucked up is that they were even veiled in the first place. What a fucking cult. this should be in the new York times and see how many leveled headed people read the article and say "what the hell". Of course I've never attended a Mormon funeral and don't plan on it. My tbm parents are not having a Mormon funeral because I'll be in charge HAHA.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2019 07:40PM by Maude.

Well, this is great news, cause I have claustrophoba! Oh wait..I resigned so I won't have to worry about it anyway. Besides, my family wants to give me a proper Viking burial by the sea..on a raft set out to sea with flaming arrows being shot at me.

Is that even legal to bury a body at sea? Never mind flaming arrows being shot at you floating out to sea on a raft.

:)

Burning a ship... probably not.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burial_at_sea

I recently found these articles on the finding of a female viking warrior grave. It's very cool!

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/09/viking-warrior-woman-archaeology-spd/

https://www.history.com/news/dna-proves-viking-women-were-powerful-warriors

face, I was very stressed out about it. Not like they weren't going to close the casket.

Probably not legal, but for one brief moment, it was a great idea. :D

Do it!!!

You might be able to get a permit due to Heathen and Asatru religious/burial practices. Both religions are recognized by the US military. http://americanhumanist.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Faith-and-Belief-Codes-for-Reporting-Personnel-Data-of-Service-Members.pdf

:D

They died from blunt force trauma in a small plane that dove into the bottom of the ocean near his family home by Cape Cod. He lost his sense of direction in a fog, and the control of the plane right before it crashed.

What an awful way to die. The Kennedy's were able to recover the bodies though from what I recall, to give them a proper burial. It was John J Jr, Caroline his wife, and her sister. They didn't drown as they were dead upon impact, before the plane sunk into the ocean.

this is video of my aunt

......OK not really, It is really MORmON ASSpostHOLE and polygamist Dallin Oaks' plural wife. she is a dead ringer for my aunt Julie. My aunt Julie died in 2014, SHe was super anal retentive about being a MORmON. She was on a genealogy perma mission at temple square with her husband.
aunt julie would wear her missionary badge EVERYWHERE all the time to show off that she was an LDS Missionary ......mostly because AUNT JULIE WAS MENTALLY ILL / A REAL MORmON!

When aunt Julie was buried, like so many MORmONS, they had her dressed her up in her (STUPID) MORmON temple clothes and they put the veil down over her face.

I was surprised that they did not pin that stupid MORmON missionary badge on her too, because she was so fond of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZkecjpQcng

I never understood why if temple clothes (hats, aprons and all) are so sacred you can only wear them in the temple that it's okay to put them on full display to the public at a funeral.

eternal1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I never understood why if temple clothes (hats,
> aprons and all) are so sacred you can only wear
> them in the temple that it's okay to put them on
> full display to the public at a funeral.

Great question.

I went to several members' funerals when the church wasn't choked with its correlation nonsense. It was a normal time with with a proper viewing at a funeral home and a eulogy during the burial. Only LDS ritual was the dedication of the grave. Had I seen a corpse in a temple costume and a veil over the face, I would have freaked out.

When correlation started pushing members to be temple numbing drones, the church lessons for the youth had no pictures because the clown costumes were too sacred to be photographed. So we were told.

I understood temple clothes were traditional funeral fare for LDS funerals, including showings.

My paternal grandfather had his viewing at the chapel on the day of his funeral dressed in full temple attire with the green apron and a hat.

That was 1972.

I wonder if full display of temple clothes was always how it was done or if it's a later tradition. Probably get the same answer as the veil thing, "It is unclear when the tradition of covering a woman’s face before burial (or wearing full temple clown clothes) began within Mormonism."

Still, it seems hypocritical to claim they are so sacred that they can't be shown outside the temple but yet for funerals it's fine. Maybe it's another way to guilt people into going to the temple?

When my very TBM mother passes away, my exmo sibling and I will not allow a Mormon funeral, nor will we dress her in the temple clothing, no will allow the Mormon bishop or leadership to come, nor for that matter any Mormons at the funeral. We will ask them to leave if they try to come. Is this wrong of us?

AnonK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is
> this wrong of us?

It is for you not her. She's dead. If you want to bring her religion into it and it is something she wanted, it doesn't make you bad to not do it. It just is how you want to honor her memory, existence, and any legacy.

If your mother is TBM, wouldn't it be respectful to let those who loved her attend to honor her memory? Otherwise you're committing bigotry IMO. Why base it on what religion someone is?

If it's other family relatives, friends, whomever. A funeral is the time and place to say goodbye to the departed. It really shouldn't matter what their religion is.

You can control the funeral itself by what goes into the program and how you want your mother dressed. If she's as TBM as you say, some of her closest friends and family are more likely than not still devout TBM like her who would want to pay their respects.

I believe the persons wishes should be followed. What would the deceased person want for their arrangements? It’s best to ask these questions while they are still living and then follow through out of respect. Isn’t that what you would want for yourself?

I remember when my grandma died. She specifically stated she didn’t want a receiving of friends or an open casket - just a funeral. Guess what? My mom and her sisters did what they wanted, not what she wanted. They had a receiving of friends with an open casket before the funeral. It still pisses me off.

I went to my first Jewish funeral recently and was surprised to find there are no open caskets for the deceased. Nor are there wakes or showings of the body. It's closed casket all the way. People (friends and family of the deceased,) showed up for the funeral. Otherwise there was no line to receive them. They came in. Sat down. Then there was the funeral. And then they left to follow the procession to the cemetery, for those who followed. It was very simple. I rather liked it in its simplicity.

Your grandmother's children were selfish not to honor her wishes. I've heard it said that funerals are for the living. Still, they could have honored her wishes and still have had a nice service nonetheless.

I have a few boats, put me on one and light it up.

I'm pretty sure my sons would go along with this.

Looks like Mrs. Russ Nelson has told Russ to make some changes.

God is a dufus. We don't need no stinking veil.

So, have they also ditched the same thing for men, i.e., placing the elastic cap over a dead man's head? They had to sit my BIL's body up in the casket, in front of all the kids and loved ones assembled in the RS room, in order to finally get his baker's cap snugly on his bald head, covered with slippery makeup. Many of us were thinking, just let it be! Let it be!

Cludgie, say it isn't truuuue !

Just a reminder to anyone in my Stake, right after we finish the holy chapel cleaning duties this Sunday we really need to meet at the city cemetery so we can start digging up the graves to remove the veils from the deceased sisters. Oh thank heavens for this holy revelation to get this eternal matter settled. Time to start digging open the graves.

Of course we can't do it on Sunday because that's the day we rest from our labors and the people in our Ward Council spend the whole day from 5am to midnight in meetings galore as they sacredly micromanage the lives of the people in our Wards under the direction of the holy middlemen who oversee the Stake. It should be done on Saturday, not Sunday.

Instead, women get a mini Hosanna Shout (waving a hankie is optional)...