https://medium.com/@marysnap/im-mary-snap-and-i-tracked-mike-norton-newnamenoah-at-the-lds-church-b9937127a071

I know this is an old article, but it is just sooooo creepy.

This is a very interesting article. Thank you.

I don't do much on FB or anything and am now glad I don't.

I really believe that the church tracks certain high profile ex- members or"trouble-makers". They seem to be interested in people that have lots of followers on social media and or blogs.

All of this to track someone who (at least up until now) has simply filmed what goes on in the temple. I can understand the annoyance, but what he did at the time was hardly dangerous. And what would the church sue him for if they themselves stole much of the ceremony from the Masons?

Speaking of the Mitt Romney video, I remember seeing this (or perhaps it was a similar video.) The video was filmed at some distance. A man who resembled Mitt (maybe him, maybe not) was walking around the Celestial Room accompanied by his wife. They were dressed in temple clothes. Other patrons were sitting or standing. I saw some conversation happening between patrons which confused me, as I assumed this was discouraged. But apart from that, it looked authentic, like a session had just ended with everyone in the Celestial Room.

Anyone remember this video?

in the DC area do go to the temple quite regularly.

It may be because they are that sincere.

But I kind of suspect that it's also one of the best ways that they can signal their "faith" to other Mormons, which is important because their base of supporters consists mainly of other Mormons.

Some of them are probably Masons as well, so they probably feel quite comfortable with the aprons and handshakes and think of it as an affiliated operation (kind of like Holiday Inn and Holiday Inn Express).

"And what would the church sue him for if they themselves stole much of the ceremony from the Masons?"

Would they make good on their death oaths?

I know.
I don't care :)

Me either, although my frank conversations with my many TBM friends have not made it any easier for my DW to leave.

The running joke with my wife's Stake Pres. is how the deck chair re-arranging is going on the Titanic that is the TSCC



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2019 01:02PM by icanseethelight.

I sure would like to know what name this Mary Snap used here on RfM. Sounds like she was on here as well as other exmormon sites.

Yes, it does sound like she was here. Maybe she was Stormy? :o)

Very interesting.

Sounds like fairly simple internet creeping and not much effort by Mike to cover his tracks.

I'd find it hilarious if they were actually following me. That would mean I'm much more important to them outside the religion than inside. I am not afraid to post my real name and have. I'm Colleen Christensen Parkinson.

In the end, what has happened to newnamenoah?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2019 08:25AM by cl2.

I'm with you. ANYTHING you put on the internet is open to prying eyes and if you care, just don't post anything. I have learned to be careful with Facebook, shutting it down only to people I'm interested in and filtering posts that all don't need to see. But I still remember every comment I make, every "like" I make, etc. is out there and someone connected to someone who's connected to someone can still find a way to see it, or it will pop up on someone's feed because I commented on something that was public, etc. Oh well, I put it out there, it's my fault if I don't like that someone else sees it.

And yes, I have people who follow me on this board. When my father died, I made a comment that someone I gave birth to didn't like. She posted that three people had alerted her to it. Three? I was really surprised that my fan club was that big. Some people need to get a life, but since they don't have one, they come here just to see what I'm posting. I'd tell them to get a new hobby--read a book or something, but I'll guarantee they haven't read anything but maybe 3rd grade level mormon fiction since they somehow (no one has quite been able to figure out how) graduated from high school.

But yeah, I liked your comment that you're much more important to them outside the religion than inside. Because god knows how important we were, especially as divorced women, on the inside.

>>In the end, what has happened to newnamenoah?

IIRC, he was convicted of a misdemeanor for being on church property after being formally warned off. He has stated that he has no intention of returning to church property, but instead now has a network of people who can gather videos for him. I believe that the recent video of the introduction to the temple film (which warns patrons from discussing the changes to the temple ceremony) was the work of one of his people.

One has to be careful. Back in 2011, I did what you just did. Then, completely unrelated to this, I made a complaint about a doctor to the state board. He turned out to be LDS, and already under investigation, and I said something about it on RfM. His lawyers searched all over for dirt on me, and found my posts here. I had to go in for a deposition, in which they made a case that my information was bad because he is Mormon, and I am ex-Mormon. Meanwhile, he was sent to federal prison for an unrelated matter, but the state persisted in going through with the trial for the thing I turned him in for. I also moved far away, in the meantime. But I had to stay home from work and testify by telephone, while his lawyers grilled me about the whole ex-Mormon thing. I was able to settle the argument by reminding the court that my wife and two of my kids are LDS, as was my dentist. Somehow that worked. But the problem is, I was almost sued for defamation, even though I didn't mention his name publicly. Gotta be careful.

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One has to be careful.

Valuable advice. Thank you for the reminder and the real-life story of consequences!

Everything about most internet social media seems creepy to me. RFM is an exception because the focus is on the content and not on the individual. It seems to me like having a Facebook account just gives you something that needs to be maintained on a regular basis, and as a target for others to attack and take advantage of for their own purposes. I even stress with my e-mail to others that I only check my e-mail a few times per year and will for-sure miss anything they send to me (amidst all of the crap that comes in daily), unless they and I agree in advance that I will look for something specific that they send to me.

I don't care what the TSCC knows about me. As a former missionary who left them, I do far more damage to them in-person in my daily life than they'll ever be aware of. I am not a clumsy wounded angry anti-mormon either. I am a mostly-healed, formerly seriously-wounded ex-member with a candid honest story to tell about what happened to me. If the church ever sees the need to ask me why I hate them and if they want to find out how much damage I've done to them in return, I'll be happy (even proud) to tell them the details. My influence as a leader in my local community once adversely affected the proselytizing work of several dozen missionaries by denying several dozen of them access to a large public event that they had worked at in previous years. Several others in my community agreed with me that the temple blood oaths that I experienced before my mission are really creepy. I even admitted to them that the church stopped with the routine ritual death threats soon after the internet came along, but that the lies and other cult influence is still quite strong now. If the church wants to attempt to negotiate a truce with me, I am all ears. But I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen either.

Some number of mormon missionaries somewhere will always knock on someone's door and will simply be told "no thanks, we're not interested". No one in the church will ever know that many of these people aren't interested because someone like me has already warned them about what Mormonism is really like from the inside, what damage has been done and how many years it can take to recover from those damages. These non-members will know ahead of time that you can lose your family to the mormon church, and not get them back. Though I am willing to tell the church who I am and what I am doing to them as a routine part of my life (typically when Mormonism enters my world - I don't seek them out), they really don't care to know how much damage that I (just one of many people) have caused them. This type of collective bad reputation is hurting the church more than internet-based social media harms them. But it is invisible to them, and they don't really want to know anyway if knowing involves them needing to make serious changes in their operations. So they keep doing what they do and I and others keep doing what we do. Let's see who wins this war.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 10:27AM by azsteve.

You are correct there. Now, if only Mormonism could just disappear from the face of the earth, so we don't have to deal with it anymore.

Wouldn't it be super to think that the MormonCult has enough on
its plate doing real charity and good in the world rather than spending its time, let's see.....

...being a spy
...figuring out new twists and turns to cover-up its history
...creating a new name to replace one it spent tons on advertising and a MOVIE creating, warning members if they don't change they are in cohoots with the devil himself
...creating new names, such as ministering, for its old programs
...changing once again the age for its baby-faced young mishies
...reminding members over and over that to question their leaders is a big-fat no-no.
...preaching again and again that "to doubt" is to bring the devil into your life



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 05:33PM by presleynfactsrock.

I'm mostly worried that if my sister read my posts here she would be pissed at me forever. Fortunately most of her kids are out now too.

P.S. it just occurred to me I know Cl2's ex husband - I probably also met her in the 70s but don't remember clearly. The Exmo church really is a small world.

...going out on a limb here. We really don't have the full picture of the Church Security apparatus, or how the SCMC operations function. But I think it could be traced back to the Howard Hughes era, where, at least there were known LDS operatives within the Hughes org. And remember, Hughes' aerospace operations were at the vanguard of satellite launches and US Gov't contracting (Glomar-CIA), during the so-called "correlation" period. It shouldn't surprise any of us that some of Hughes' "snooping technology" might have filtered into the Church Security systems.

A lot of younger people are not familiar with how concerned the US government was about communism after WWI; all the way up to the early 90s. There were many crackpot mormon right wing leaders who were staunch anti-communists and involved with federal agencies like the FBI, and were involved with rooting out dissident students and other members who might have ties to socialism. In the 50s- 80s Mormons served as a tremendous resource for supplying FBI agents who had proper right wing values and CIA agents with experience living in foreign countries and learning new languages. ( I think a lot of us here got recruited by CIA after finishing missions in the 70s).

I dated a girl whose father was an FBI agent (he was actually a pretty nice guy) he eventually began working for the Church, with several of his ex-FBI friends. When asked what he was doing for the church he would just say "special projects".

I'm sure they do. And they can F*** O**.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2019 06:56PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

azsteve, Just so you know where this question is coming from, I haven't been formally excommunicated from the LDS church, but I no longer attend and have no desire to be affiliated. I prefer the Hindu way of living while believing in Christ as my Redeemer, and I also accept the work Joseph Smith accomplished to restore truth. My question is: When you take into consideration the purpose of life and all that a person experiences during a lifetime, Do you really think that the LDS church damages people? How can an institution damage someone? I certainly have suffered from the false precepts I imbibed during my childhood, and yet I believe I learned a lot and ultimately benefitted from that experience. If I hadn't imbibed false precepts from the LDS church, I, no doubt, would have imbibed them somewhere else, and would have had to learn through some experience at some time in order to grow in my personal understanding. I have tried to persuade my family to leave the LDS church, but I remember the parable Christ gave that when the evil spirit leaves a man and his house is swept clean and empty, then the evil spirit goes and finds other spirits more evil than himself and they come and take up their abode in the house so that the man is worse off. What I mean is, when you realize you want to get rid of something evil, you need to replace it with something good and not leave that space empty or it will be filled with something worse. I left the LDS church because the Book of Mormon condemned it. I took my church leaders advice seriously, the good and the bad. I suffered from the bad, but I benefitted from the advice to read and study the Book of Mormon. I did obtain a testimony that it was true, and I did use it as the word of God to judge good from evil, and it clearly classifies the LDS church with the Great and Abominable church of the devil. Just look at 1 Nephi 22:23 "For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to GET GAIN, and all those who are built up to get POWER OVER THE FLESH, and those who are built up to BECOME POPULAR in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the LUSTS OF THE FLESH and the THINGS OF THE WORLD, and to do all manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet."
OR look at the Book of Mormon story of king Noah. When he inherits the kingdom he institutes polygamy among the priestly class, modifies the temple to be a place for spreading lies and vanity, builds memorials to remind the people they are protected and favored by God, blinds the eyes of his people with flattering words about how powerful, indestructible and favored of God they are, and builds a tall tower so he can look over all the land and discover the movements of his people!!! So crazy accurate about the LDS church after Brigham Young gained the presidency and beyond. I cannot find fault the with doctrines and precepts found in the Book of Mormon or in the other revelations to Joseph Smith published during his lifetime. I have been able to use those teachings to learn and discover for myself truth in other religions and understand more fully the promises of God and how to honor God. It has given my strength and a way to connect with God. Is God's hand shortened at all that he cannot save all those who come unto him with a broken heart and a contrite spirit?....Even ex-Mormons or those who are cast out?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2019 05:24PM by michellej.

An "institution" is simply the formalization of principles and ideas that a group of people adhere to. If you want to play linguistic games, sure, the people are the ones that cause the harm... but it is the institution that codifies it.

The NAZI party circa 1942 comes to mind as exhibit A

I get the betrayal. I felt it too. I was raised to believe that if I questioned the leadership or went outside of their advice and counsel that I would lose the guidance of the Holy Spirit and become so darkened in my mind that I would not even realize I was doing bad things and end up lost and fallen forever. And there are more lies and betrayals than that. There is the lie that the leaders actually have talked to God and God has given them power to save and damn souls. But, other religions/groups/individuals have exercised or do exercise that kind of power over others, it is not unique to the LDS church. Parents can be like that, political parties can act like that, and of course religious leaders are particularly prone to teaching others to depend on them because they are the only ones smart enough or strong enough or whatever enough to know whats best for the simple-minded masses. But, the Book of Mormon exposes that lie, and teaches the reader that all are alike unto God and he enlightens the minds of all who diligently seek Him. The doctrine of Christ which is taught by Nephi in 2 Nephi 31 and then again by Christ in 3 Nephi 11 says nothing about belonging to a certain church or paying tithing or serving in callings or submitting to priestly authority. The doctrine of CHrist is all about turning to God with full purpose of heart, receiving baptism, and living according to the light you have in order to receive more light until the perfect day when you become a vessel of light. I think the Book of Mormon is gift from God, but what would have happened to the Book of Mormon if Brigham Young didn't think he could make himself a wealthy and powerful person by seizing leadership of an infant church in a succession crisis? It basically took an evil and selfish man to preserve what God had given for our benefit.
I have had to get rid of a lot of "false, and vain, and foolish" notions that I was brainwashed with raised in the LDS church, but, the Book of Mormon was my lifeline. Without it, I don't think I would have ever realized that I should NOT excuse the lies, contradictions, and oppressions practiced by the LDS church. The church teaches us to ignore our feelings and obey the leadership. I got an email from my mom just this morning telling me, "Obedience brings blessings, but exact obedience brings miracles." She sends me this kind of stuff regularly because she wants to convince me that my life would be better if I would go back to being the "Prophet parrot" I used to be. INstead the Book of Mormon exposes the LDS practices as NOT OF GOD. I have always had a habit of studying the Book of Mormon daily, and it was difficult when I first began seeing contraditions. At first I thought I was an evil person for interpreting scripture that way. But the contraditions became increasingly glaring and I became proportionally curious about church history and looking around. The more I looked, the more I found. And where once I was irritated by "unfaithful" people I began to agree and understand. And then I realized how many embarrassing, ignorant, and hurtful choices I had made based on my LDS beliefs. It was painful to face. But, "Nevertheless, Jacob, my firstborn in the wilderness, thou knowest the greatness of God, and he shall consecrate thine afflictions for thy gain...For it must needs be that there is an opposition in all things..."
So, the question is, are you damaged by the experience? I am not trying to dismiss or belittle your experience, because I believe that false shepherds are condemned for hedging up the way and preventing people from coming to Christ, They do dig pits for their neighbor and cause people to stumble, become blind to the truth, etc. But, if it wasn't the LDS church doing that, wouldn't it be someone else? We all have to learn to discern good from evil and learn to hear God's voice and keep his commandments. There is no good ship zion that will carry all aboard safely to eternal bliss. Not in the LDS church, not anywhere.
It is impossible! That is not THE WAY! It would destroy the very plan of salvation to have such a ship that anyone can hop on and blissfully ride off into the sunset. The idea of a Good ship Zion that will save all and not one will be lost, is the very plan proposed by Lucifer in the council of heaven.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2019 07:31PM by michellej.

Yes, I know, I agree "they" did all that and continue to hoodwink the stubborn. And for myself it took years to face the truth, stop the tears, and heal my heart. But what now? What do you do with the empty space after you've recognized the evil for what it is and rejected it?
What is the truth about church history? What were they hiding and why? What excited me about the church in the first place? Is there any truth worth holding onto? For myself, I believe that if I don't sort things through with the purpose of figuring out what was true and what was false and pursue understanding of the questions I have that pertain to my own life, my own concerns and needs, and my own relationship with God, I can get stuck in my anger and become worse rather than better. My healing only continues as long as I believe God is in all things and through all things. Everything we go through has a purpose to teach us. I am certainly a different person now than I was as a faithful LDS. I like myself better. I don't feel like I have to uphold an image. I can admit that I am wrong, and foolish, and off. I like being able to look at myself without being defensive. I like that I can listen to others and believe that their life and their experience is real and purposeful and meaningful no matter how different it is from my own. I like believing that God loves all his children and is no respecter of persons. I find it immensely congenial to be able to face my fellow human beings without being burdened by the conviction that I am embarked upon a "true path" that they have missed.

I wanted to add that we also know who the MormonCult is.

We can hear the taped conversations with our own ears when fine, curious people in Sweden earnestly sought answers to their questions which the cult's representatives answered by side-stepping, minimizing and sarcastically uttering such things as, and I paraphrase, 'well, we'll give you the answers we give you'. In this last statement alone they might as well have bluntly proclaimed, 'How dare you question us the masters!'.

We can see with our own eyes how the cult chooses to invest and spend its billions on more and more temples (Utah alone has around 10), high rises, condos, and a crazy-expensive mall that I would guess at least 9/10's of its members could not afford to shop in , let alone dare step in. Don't forget that each elite makes 130,000 per year PLUS perks up the ying, yang. Hmm, how many children and their families would still be alive if the cult had invested in just two major needs the world over.....education and safe, available water instead of how it chooses to spend its money?

We can read with our own eyes the essays the cult finally had who knows who write (it refuses to say), because it was backed in a corner by truthful information on the net so it "decided" (was forced) to "sort-of, kind-of" be somewhat more truthful about its history. The cult in these essays made it seem that WOW! look at us, aren't we amazing to finally give you soooom of the truth and you should really thank us for taking the time out of our busy schedule to give this gift to you. Mormondumb did not apologize (oh, by the way, the cult has announced it does not apologize but only has regrets) for its less than truthful way of treating past history and for the hurt and harm it has caused (just think of the deplorable harm alone its policy on the African Americans has caused).

Yes, we KNOW by its works what the MormonCult is. We have seen it, heard it, read it, tasted it, and especially felt it in our own hearts when we have realized that this organization was NOT WHAT IT PROFESSED TO BE.

Plain and simply put, WE WERE BETRAYED......AND NOTHING HURTS LIKE BEING BETRAYED and having those who betrayed you not give a damn.....who, infact, relish lying to you and trying to make you look like the the betrayer, to make you feel astronomically ashamed when it is they who are guilty.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2019 05:36PM by presleynfactsrock.

The way I see it is if I can waste some of their time, resources and attention tracking me, I'm doing a public service.

Great point.