I'm not sure if this has been talked about on any posts in the past, but I just had an "aha" moment the other day. In the Book of Mormon, it tells how Moroni was the sole survivor of the last great battle between the "Lamanites" and the "Nephites", millions were killed, down to the last man, woman, and child. So Moroni makes this arduous walk (about 5,000 miles) lugging the gold plates with him and going all the way to what is now New York. Along the way, he is busy dodging the Lamanites and in general feeling very lonesome and trying to survive. He arrives in New York, buries the plates, and says bye bye to everyone. Now according to JS, BY, and various other "prophets", the last great battle took place in New York in an area called Hill Cumorah. The church can't even get it straight exactly where this battle took place!

The location of the battle is not necessary for your salvation, and it will be revealed in the next life. So just pay your tithing.

"The thinking has already been done" as one prophet stated. And, Elder Oaks admonishes you to stop researching things of faith. Just believe because he says to believe. Faith is just believing because someone told you to believe. Stop thinking, you faithless doubter!

Since I was taught to believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and the Tooth Fairy by educated and religious parents, why should I doubt their existence?

save your energy and follow oakes advice about what you do know, that "joseph smith was a prophet" ....that's all you need to know, right? now don't you feel better?

valkyriequeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The church can't even
> get it straight exactly where this battle took
> place!

Forget place, they have terrible problems with time and what history claims really did exist.

Abraham connected to a Horus funerary scroll from hundreds and hundreds of years later?

And that wasn't from an angel but a traveling showman. And this wasn't tied to scrying for treasures but amidst the glory days of Joe the Prophet.

Think of it kind of like being lost in a small desert for 40 years.

40 years in the desert ? What did they eat and drink during those 40 years ? And why is 40 a christian magical number ? And how much walking could get done in 40 years ?
They could have walked their way out of the desert in one year. And 40 years would have been about the average human lifespan in those days. Was this a multi-generational trek or something ?

Nothing about mormonism or christianity withstands any scrutiny.

“Nothing about mormonism or christianity withstands any scrutiny.”

That’s so true. Not only do their “facts” not stand up, neither do their morals.

God is pissed about wickedness, so he drowns everybody (people, animals, plants).

Kids make fun of a “prophet’s” baldness, summon bears to kill the kids.

You worship the wrong god, or fail to accept “grace”—to hell with you.

You want to go to the CK? Better follow all of the rules, and pay 10%. You also might want to marry multiple wives, just to be sure.

Were you born “cursed with a skin of darkness“? You better hope that you lived after god stopped being a racist in 1978.

Etc., etc., etc.

God has the freedom to be petty and petulant. God's creations are sinning if they succumb.

Rank has its privileges. Such entitled creatures we are.

Well, when you put it like that . . .


It's like you dug my testimony up and killed it all over again. Thank you.

Funny that the Mormon church enthusiastically supports biblical sites written about in the old and new testaments. BYU has a study abroad program in Israel where students learn about biblical events that took place in the Holy Land. There are many weepy testimonies about walking where Jesus walked.

Why then won't the Mormon church identify any of the sites where the great BoM battles took place or where the once great cities stood? How about where Jesus visited the peoples of the Americas? It's probably why I never felt the same connection to the BoM that I felt to the Bible. At least we know that Jerusalem actually existed (it's still there) and wasn't a made up location. The location of Zarahemla, on the other hand, will forever remain a mystery.

The Hill Cumorah in Manchester, NY has been positively identified as the place where Joseph retrieved the gold plates, stashed there by Moroni. If you read the last three chapters in the BoM, it seems logical that it is also the same Cumorah where the great battles of the Jaredites and later the Nephites and Lamanites took place. Oliver Cowdery identified it as such, but the church won't confirm that it has any other significance other that the place where Joseph was instructed to find the plates. The Mormon church purchased the hill and the surrounding area back in the 1920s. They were probably worried that someone might do some digging...

Please remember NOT do do any research. LDS Inc. disapproves.

ALL OF YOU HAVE BEEN ADMONISHED, EVEN WARNED

DO NOT DO ANY RESEARCH.

DAMN IT, AGAIN I SAY DAMN IT! DON'T DO ANY RESEARCH.

DID YOU HEAR WHAT OAKES SAID??? DID YOU???

JUST SAY WHAT YOU DO KNOW

I KNOW JOSEPH SMITH WAS A PROPHET.

SEE HOW EASY IT IS?

ALL OF YOU HAVE BEEN ADMONISHED, EVEN WARNED

DO NOT DO ANY RESEARCH.

DAMN IT, AGAIN I SAY DAMN IT! (OAKES PROBABLY CURSED)
DON'T DO ANY RESEARCH.

DID YOU HEAR WHAT OAKES SAID??? DID YOU??? (I THINK HE CURSED)

JUST SAY WHAT YOU DO KNOW

I KNOW JOSEPH SMITH WAS A PROPHET.

SEE HOW EASY IT IS?

LOL! All of your responses are great! That is one of the things that I really enjoy about this RfM forum: sense of humor and intelligence - it's a winning combination!

Didn't the Mormons try to claim some of the Mayan, Aztec, and even Inca ruins as BOM ruins, for a while, until archeologists very clearly established their origin? I thought BYU had tours down to South America, for a while, for Mormons to see the BOM cities, and "walk where Jesus walked in the Americas". Does anyone else remember these tours?

Old fashioned metal detectors, and my archeologist cousin-in-law convinced me. We lived in an area of So. Cal, where tribes of Indians once lived, and there were artifacts all over the place! Someone was always finding an arrowhead or something in their garden. That's how Cumorah should have been--but my cousin and his buddies found NOTHING in the area. They quit the cult, after that. Interesting, that the Mormon story has changed, now, and they're saying that there was no battle fought there.... I can't keep up with the latest....

LOL. Jungles and rain forests are convenient for hiding an entire civilization, evidences of huge battles, and a city the size of Zarahemla. Now that explorers have the use of fancy computerized sonar-type photographic equipment, and heat-sensitive tracking devices, or whatever, the Mormons are unable to make their story stick--or stick to their story--in any way.

BUSTED by scientific facts!

They could say that Zarahemla's ruins are under water, but computerized equipment can go there now, too. Maybe they will say that the piece of the planet where it all occurred got broken off and flew into outer space, like the dinosaurs in reverse. Maybe it happened on Kolob. Maybe it's an "allegory" to test the Mormons' faith....

Yes, once that light bulb clicks on, you can't click it off.

" . . . the Mormons are unable to make their story stick--or stick to their story--in any way."

What a great line. Sometimes a few words are worth a thousand pictures.

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Didn't the Mormons try to claim some of the Mayan, Aztec, and even Inca ruins as BOM ruins...

They are still doing this. There is a Utah-based tour company which takes tour groups (led by Moron 'scholars') there, as well as to other countries, lecturing them about the "true' origins.

I dunno, have you seen the painting of Moroni? If you carried golden plates 5000 miles, wouldn’t you be super buff like that? The reason archaeologists haven’t found anything is that all metal weapons were melted down to make kettlebells. Again, refer to the Friberg paintings.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The reason
> archaeologists haven’t found anything is that
> all metal weapons were melted down to make
> kettlebells.


This is the same reason God wanted The Gold Plates back.