Was the land that the mormons settled in / on (Ohio, Illinois) previously surveyed & owned by others?

IOW, did the mormons purchase (or rent/lease) land (public & private [residences, Joe's store, etc]), or, were they the first owners?

we pretty much know about Utah (was surveying an important occupation/profession then?)

Curious to learn if someone has studied this, Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2019 08:00PM by GNPE.

Well, you've got me curious now. That's not something that I've ever thought of or noticed being addressed.

The first white settlers came in around 1827. In 1834 the town changed it's name from Venus to Commerce.

In 1839 the Mormons came in and bought most of the lots. In 1840 the town was renamed to Nauvoo.

thanks, Heartless;

would U mind sharing the source of your info so us OCD types can check it out?

brings the question: How did the mormons (individuals) save to make those purchases -or- were the lots purchased by ChurchCo?

Pamphlet I found in a book I inherited.

[|] Wrote:
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> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nauvoo,_Illinois
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Nauvoo,_I
> llinois

Mormons have been editing Wikipedia dishonestly again.
From the second article:

"Within two years of Joseph Smith's death by a mob in 1844, most of the population had departed, fleeing armed violence."

There was "armed violence" involved in Smith's death. After that, for the remaining mormons in Nauvoo, there wasn't any to speak of.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, Joseph lived in the Knewel K. knight store. He was the man that Joe went up to and said "thou are the Man!" And Knight was so impressed that he let Emma and kids move right in. As for surveying the farms in Utah that was undertaken by the US government in 1868. Right before the railroad was completed. before the railroad the property rights were secured by where the fences ran and the creeks flowed. Every man was suppose to inherit 10 acres for a married man and 5 for a single. The best land with access to water of course was taken by the ones closest to Brigham and his favorites. The later pioneers (Danish, and swedes) got the second best. Italians, Jews, Gentiles, Mexicans, Blacks got nothing.

A lot of hurt feelings and fights occurred at this time especially down town and around capitol hill. Brigham irritated a lot of people and took advantage of his position with regards to taking a little more than he should have. Certain pioneer families got fed up with the tyranny and left the city because of this and went to other places. These are little bits of history I heard growing up that for whatever reason have not been written down in any books.

As for East of the Mississippi I don't know when it was first offically surveyed?

Lest you think that polygamy was devised only as a way for old farts to get their hands on as many young lasses as possible, be advised that it also came in handy for robbing wealthy widows of their land.

Formula:

Step 1: Covet valuable land owned by a widow.

Step 2: Use status as "prophet" to convince widow that her spiritual welfare depends on her marrying the prophet (without any regard for the deceased husband) and that disobedience would be a grave sin.

Step 3: Marry the widow.

Step 4: Take control of the widow's land and fine home in which she lived alone previously and send the widow to live together with other unfavored wives in a crappy shack.

Step 5: Open your hymn book and enthusiastically sing "We Thank Thee O Gawd For A Profit!"

Step 6: Start looking for another wealthy widow to rob blind.

You may be tempted to think I'm exaggerating. But you can find a well-described and documented account right here (as told by Briggy's Wife No. 19):

http://www.ebershoff.com/old/pdfs/Wife_No_19_Ann_Eliza_Young.pdf

(Account can be found on page 282. BTW, Widow Lewis is also the mother of Thomas Lewis, the young man who was castrated by Bishop Snow because he refused to stand aside and let Bishop Snow force his girlfriend into a polygamous marriage with Bishop Snow.)

came to be in Utah:

https://archives.utah.gov/research/guides/land-original-title.htm

Here's a good overview of how titles to land originated in Illinois. (A similar process would have applied in most of the states.)

Joseph Smith/"the Church" bought Commerce City. It was owned by private interests speculating on it being an attractive destination for settlers. But didn't do well because it was swampy and infested (explaining why so many Mormons died of disease there). The Mormon church probably bought it on the cheap.

"Commerce City

"Hancock County was created in 1825 and organized in 1829, eleven years after Illinois became a state. In 1834, absentee investors A. White and J. B. Teas laid out and plotted the town of Commerce on a bend of the Mississippi River in Hancock County, some 53 miles (85 km) north of Quincy.[4] By 1839, the town had failed to attract settlers, and only a few frame houses had been built. The hopes of commercial success, based on the townsite being beside a necessary portage trail past seasonal rapids, were dashed by the fact that the site and surrounding lands were also most of the time a malarial swamp."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Nauvoo,_Illinois#Commerce_City

Wally Prince Wrote:
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> Here's a good overview of how titles to land
> originated in Illinois. (A similar process would
> have applied in most of the states.)
>
https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Illinois_Land_and_Property

(Forgot to include the link in the above post)

thanks for your posts/remarks;

I had previously thought the early saints were 'poor folk', maybe that assumption was wrong / unfounded.

all the facts that we can verify are pieces of the puzzle, especially for us today, professional or amateur historians, regardless of what they (Packer, et al) would have us think.

All became poorer after meeting Joseph Smith...and Joseph Smith became wealthier after meeting them. Funny how it worked out that way.

Consider the case of the Lawrence sisters who likely lost most of their inheritance to Joseph Smith (their "guardian" and secretly their polygamist "husband").

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_mismanage_the_estate_of_two_orphans,_Maria_and_Sarah_Lawrence_by_marrying_these_sisters_polygamously_in_order_to_use_the_marriage_to_enrich_himself%3F

The link is to a FAIR article, in which the apologists try hard to make it all seem like Joe was the good guy, with twist, turns and omissions that make the head spin. But they get a B- for effort.

thanks, Wally, all your posts have been great!

At least for me, it's difficult to understand how people could have become wealthy in those days.

inheritance? Reminds me of the BY inheritance debacle. His heirs had to pay ChurchCo back for loans that Beloved BY extended to himself... If I recall correctly, settling his estate was a first-class can of worms.

But for the times and places they were living, it could depend on skills that could be traded for resources. There was no income tax to worry about and a person with some land and skills could build up wealth over time. Inflation was usually negligible (if you were dealing in gold and silver coins or bartering).

Rent out a subsection of your land to someone who has no land.

Cultivate a specialized crop that takes skill and knowledge to grow and sell it for a nice profit when it's in season.

Grow some hemp and make rope and twine that can be sold.

Buy booze, but don't drink it. Set it aside and sell it when a higher price can be charged.

Use some disposable income to stockpile some non-perishable items (nails, horseshoes, hinges, clasps, flasks) and let your neighbors know that they're available for sell if a need arises.

An industrious person with some luck (especially on the farming side) and pluck could acquire a good amount of wealth over a decade or so.

In many ways, it was much easier to be entrepreneurial in those times. In fact that and farming (which itself was a form of entrepreneurship) was a way of life for a substantial percentage of the population. Regular wage jobs held in the same place of employment for decades were quite rare.

People with bad luck, gambling problems, drinking habits could easily end up being dirt poor. One really fast way to becoming dirt poor would be to invest your life savings into a financial institution founded by Joseph Smith.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was the land that the mormons settled in / on
> (Ohio, Illinois) previously surveyed & owned by
> others?
>
> IOW, did the mormons purchase (or rent/lease) land
> (public & private ), or, were they the first
> owners?

The Sauk and Fox tribes lived there a few decades before. Whites came along and stole their land. If the LDS got it off other whites, they hadn't been there long.

About Ohio: yes, previously surveyed, and yes, previously owned at least by a Land Company. The Western Reserve was actually a big step in the early history of this country, now nearly forgotten outside the area, I think.

Sources: my own memory from having lived in the area, confirmed by 3 pages in Wikipedia:
John Johnson Farm
Hiram Township, Portage County, Ohio
Kirtland, Ohio -- History section

Maps and more links included if you care to read further. The Wikipedia page Western Reserve Historical Society says that a home called Loghurst in Canfield, Ohio (south of Youngstown) was built in 1805 and is the oldest building on the Western Reserve.

Case Western Reserve University is a very good private university and medical school on the eastern edge of Cleveland, Ohio. It was started in 1826. The area was considered quite forward-thinking by taking higher education so seriously so early on, but you can get the idea that NE Ohio was more 'developed', settled at least, in the early 1800s than you may have been aware of. Twenty years from first house to a university was making darn good time.

Lots of Revolutionary War veterans (or their heirs) were eventually partially paid in land on the Western Reserve, which helped it become settled relatively quickly.