Have you ever noticed the LDS Church always tells its members to read the BOM? They never encourage reading the New Testament over the BOM. Some posters here claim the LDS Church is deemphasizing the BOM. That will never happen. They would rather go down in flames. Keeping members reading the Book Of Mormon is the Church’s way of brainwashing them. All of the active young families I know read the BOM daily to their children as the Church commands. Their children get brainwashed in the process. A large number of them will never ssriously question it. We are naive to think they will.

Okay, I'm going to bite. How does reading the Book of Mormon lead to brainwashing? I've read the Koran and Watchtower regularly and I never wanted to become Muslim or JW.

Luvvin' it Wrote:
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> Okay, I'm going to bite. How does reading the Book
> of Mormon lead to brainwashing? I've read the
> Koran and Watchtower regularly and I never wanted
> to become Muslim or JW.


You weren't reading those with trusted parents telling you every word was true, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year... brainwashing is based on repetition over a substantial amount of time.

That's what I grew up with, and it did work. I truly believed it when I was young. It took many years after that for my shelf to finally break.

I grew up with the same, but I never believed it. It just felt weird and was no fun at all.....for a kid like me anyway. My biggest wish as a kid was that I wasn't a mormon.

I wish I had had that same experience, I look back and how strongly I believed and the things I said to non-mormon friends in High School, it makes me shudder now. The brainwashing worked on me, but I am glad to be rid of it now.

The brainwashing worked on me, but not my hubby. I have my theories about why. Something to do with my family’s extreme dysfunction.

By itself the Book of Mormon doesn't lead to brainwashing. It is like a prop, an object used to create an illusion.

Seems the problem the Mormons would face if the Book of Mormon were de-emphasized and removed is that would challenge the claim of Joseph Smith being a prophet. If the Book of Mormon were to no longer matter, why should Joseph Smith?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2019 06:45AM by mikemitchell.

The Nook of Mormon is a proven fraud,total fiction.

Joseph Smith never foresaw the web or DNA

Book

I thought you were making a clever joke. I didn't quite get it though ...

3X Wrote:
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> I thought you were making a clever joke.

I LIKE the "Nook of Mormon"---Nook is like Kindle, an eBook term. But Nook has the connotation of a small space, which is kind of like what the BoM SHOULD have been...a small, failed attempt of writing and selling a book.

DO you speak French? You might like, "livre du merde", a very apt description of a silly book from Utah.

3X Wrote:
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> merde", a very apt description

Ha! Street French yes always comes in handy.

We learned about that way back in the 1990s. This hasn't done anything to change the views about the Book of Mormon among a huge majority of the faithful who have been inculcated with the Book of Mormon before they were in grade schools with Book of Mormon stories that their teachers (and parents) tell to them. I still hear the missionaries assuring us it is true. Their little brothers and sisters will mostly do the same. There is always an excuse for the problems that crop up.

Justin Wrote:

>They never encourage reading the New Testament over the BOM.

Yes, when I joined and went to what I thought was a 'Bible Study' class, Sunday School, I kept waiting for them to get to the bible, and of course they never did.

I agree that for children who have this pounded into them night and day every day growing up, it will be hard for them ever NOT to believe it.

Elyse Wrote:
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> The Nook of Mormon is a proven fraud,total
> fiction.
>
> Joseph Smith never foresaw the web or DNA
Or video and tape recording technology. .

BoM:

Very little substance, the most it offers is that Christ visited Ameeica, but even that event doesn't get much attention;it is a novel idea / thought however.

They used to plug reading the BoM. They used to have missionaries give out BoMs like they were popcorn. That stopped. The robotically devout will continue to read it because they are slow to catch on to change. Look how many of them are still doing a year's supply, a program that was downgraded to a few months supply many years ago.

It is just in the last year that they have been pushing this name change. Let's look back 5 years from now and see if they have continued their emphasis on the BoM. I expect they will back away from the BoM very slowly, but I can not imagine why else they would be so anal-retentive about the name change thing. They are expending a huge amount of social capital to make themselves less well known. That is a huge hit on their brand. Why on earth would they be willing to expend that much social capital?

They are well aware that getting the name change accepted is going to be a very heavy lift. That's precisely why Rusty has pulled out all the stops and gone on this ridiculous "every time you say 'Mormon', Jesus cries" campaign.

Something monumentally big is up.

As recently as last October President Nelson asked all the women to read the Book of Mormon by the end of the year. It was all the rage among Mormon women I knew. There is more emphasis, not less, on the Book of Mormon.

Remember the good old days when LDS Inc ran advertising campaigns that if you contacted them, they would send you a BoM, delivered of course by two enthusiastic missionaries? There was a big push to have members write by hand their testimonies inside the front cover.

Now they advertise that if you contact them, they will deliver a Bible to you. They are shutting down the Mother of all Mormon pageants, the Hill Cumorah Pageant! I never thought I would see them do that.

Sorry, not buying the claim that they are emphasizing it more. They are a long way from abandoning the BoM, but current support is less than full-throated.

It doesn't matter that Mormons are ok with the BoM. It is racist nonsense that proclaims from cover to cover that god's fave skin color is white. That is not a good look when the bulk of both current and future growth is in countries where the people are various shades of color.

The pageant wasn’t cost effective. It is all about the money, not the BOM.

And you know about the cost-effectiveness of the Hill Cumorah Pageant how?

Sounds like you have your mind made up, and you are just going to explain away any disconfirming evidence,

Assuming you agree that the name change is going to be a very heavy lift for them, why do you think they did it? The name "Mormon" never seemed to hurt their public perception before. What changed?

That was a Russell M. Nelson special. We will see how long getting rid of Mormon lasts. It is a separate issue from ditching the Book of Mormon.

The missionary program isn’t cost effective either. The Palmyra pageant was great for the cast and Mormon audience alike. It’s hard to believe bean counters would kill it to save a few bucks. More likely is the realization among the top brass that the BoM isn’t historical. So they can’t in good conscience support the pageant. They can support the forward momentum of the doctrine because they have to. They know exactly how long it takes for things to disappear down the memory hole.

I find this fascinating. I never thought the elevator would go all the way up, but it looks like it has. They are carefully retooling without telling the rank and file.

cancellation.

Most of the people involved are unpaid volunteers. Everything is done on church-owned property. Costumes, lighting, stage props are mostly reusable from year to year. Other than paying for basic rent-a-cop security teams (probably provided by a church-connected business) and possibly paying some fees to the local governments (city/county), the costs would be relatively minimal.

Nothing the church does (or has been doing) to recruit new members is really cost-effective. As far as retention goes, however, the pageants have been something of a rite of passage for many Mormons, a faith-promoting family activity for many Mormon families and a spectacle of light and sound that may impress impressionable young minds strongly enough to keep their faith intact for at least a few more years than it otherwise would have remained intact.

It does seem more plausible that the cancellations are due to the fact that the content of the pageants attracts scrutiny and media attention to aspects of the faith that really cannot withstand scrutiny and attention anymore.

There is certainly less emphasis now than there was in the 1970s, or during the presidency of ETB.

At the very least, the emphasis is changing. TSCC is slowly backing away from claims of literal truth, and instead emphasizing the “spiritual” truth.

"Something monumentally big is up."


Might it be that the LDS leadership is finally confronting the declining growth rates seen across much of mormondom?

Maybe the hope is that by "normalizing" mormonism, more converts can be enticed to join?

An important point: TSCC is perfectly capable of/comfortable in delivering mixed messages: one set to the existing membership, one set to potential converts and the world at large.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2019 05:30PM by 3X.

A friend of main bases her entire testimony on the belief God wouldn’t have ignored the people in the Americas. Of course God ignored the Asians, but that hasn’t seemed to dawn on her.

Joseph covered that.

3Nephi 16:1-3

Too long to type on phone but basically has the ressurected christ telling the nephites there are yet other sheep not of the Americas nor the land of Jerusalem or around Jerusalem.

If you look at the whole world, and the entirety of human history, God has ignored almost everyone.

Odin has been watching from Asgard forever. You never heard Thor’s thunder?

The BoM was the deal breaker for me. They push it at their own peril, meaning they’re probably stupid enough to do so. It’s a delicate balance. They don’t want to rock the status quo, so any weaning off of the BoM will take decades.

The Book of Mormon (Soon to be The Book of Jesus Christ in America?) is the self declared keystone of this whole mess. They will never de-emphasize it over the New Testament. If members actually started to read the New Testament they’d discover a whole ne Christ.

What's even worse is the mormons talking about the "gospel"; it ain't the New Testament--they actually mean the BoM, BoA, D&C and whatever comes out of the Big 15 mouths.

remember, the 'Plain & Precious Parts' of Christ's gospel were missing from the N.Testament...


like:

love for God & Neighbor

Kindness, Honesty

Repentance & Forgiving

Don't retaliate, don't take advantage of others

(where are those in the BoM?)

If you have the right kind of fanatical faith:

(1) You can cut off the head of a rich man, steal his books and get away undetected without any bloody mess on you to give you away.

(2) You can slice off the arms of 100 "bad" guys who were trying to steal some livestock "owned" by a king and, in the process, become very well-liked by the king.

(3) You can give an electric shock to your nasty older brothers if they try to harm you because they are jealous of your virtue and your close relationship to the invisible God.

(4) You can stuff yourself and your family into a small airtight, watertight floating barge, together with various kinds of animals and both animal and human excrement...in mucho grande quantities...for months...and come out of it just fine because you have some glowing rocks that were fingered by God.

(5) You can go stand at a prominent spot on top of a wall of a city full of evil, vile, degenerate people and proceed to scold them for being evil, vile and degenerate and...when they all start shooting arrows at you...you will be fine because God will protect you with an invisible force field.

(6) You can watch Jesus destroy whole cities with earthquakes and all manner of devastation just so that his arrival in the western hemisphere will get the proper amount of attention...and you live through it because of your faith.

In other words, in the Book of Mormon, if you just believe in Jesus and follow the commands of the voices you hear in your head no matter what, you're a hero. Otherwise, you deserve a miserable death (viz. Korihor).

That pretty much sums up the morality of the Book of Mormon.

The rest of it is just gratuitous violence, such as the Daughter of Jared winning a dance competition so that she can have some guy killed by decapitation opening the way for her daddy to take over the kingdom and make her the uber princess. (I guess the moral of that story is that you can get whatever you want if you're a hot young thang and know how to shake that booty. I suspect that this was Joseph Smith's favorite part of the Book of Mormon. Don't you just stand in awe contemplating the spiritual depth of the BoM?)

“whatever comes out of the Big 15 mouths.”

Are sure you mean mouths?

The Book of Mormon stuff that finds its way into lesson manuals and talks is pretty much the same 10% repeated over and over. And the substance of that 10% is basically the same as stuff that you can find in the Bible (or interpretations thereof).

I've never heard any tearful Sacrament mtg. talk that focused on the beheading of Shiz or the "tight like unto a dish" barges. Occasionally, someone will bring up the beheading of Laban. But usually, they omit 90% of that story and simply quote the ONE verse that says: "the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them."

That's the way it usually goes. A whole chapter of senseless violence and gore...and they just pick one verse out that, by itself, sounds okay. If you keep the whole context intact what you get is a recipe for inspiring a serial murder who thinks God is commanding him to kill someone in order to steal some books.

They CAN phase it out eventually. But they can't make any sudden moves in that direction. It's been used as a kind of central talisman for the Church for far too long. If that's where they want to take things, it will have to be by barely perceptible baby steps.

I think you’re being very generous to give them credit for paying attention to even 10%.

Back in my TBM days, a friend of mine told me his “75 verses” rule. He said that 90% of all scriptures quoted in all lessons and talks came from the same 75 verses (out of all the verses in all the standard works).

In 2.5 decades in the LSD Church, I never once heard anyone quote anything from D&C 129 (the devil handshake test) and I never heard anyone deliver any kind of talk or lesson based on D&C 111 (the failed treasure hunt in Salem).

Kind of sad when you consider the fact that the "Standard Works" comprises several thousand pages of text and...out of all of that...they can only find a few dozen pithy verses that can sort of be passed off as something that would approximate words of wisdom or inspiration (and even then only after imbibing much sacramental wine).

Wally thanks for the verses, now I know which ones to read if I ever do read any of that again.

When I first started I would often ask different missionaries or kids in SS which their favorite sections were and they all said (separately) Ether 12. It did make me wonder if that was the only part anyone ever read!

Want to bet Big Nellie did not give a Book of Mormon to the Pope?

the BoM is the 'Keystone' of the Mormon religion!

sheesh!!

I have never found any evidence that Joseph Smith ever quoted from this keystone ever. Joseph knew what it was ... and wasn’t.

Joe Johnson Wrote:
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> I have never found any evidence that Joseph Smith
> ever quoted from this keystone ever. Joseph knew
> what it was ... and wasn’t.

IF there's ChurchCo sourced record of Joey being sealed to someone else before Emma... How could anyone refute that he was a con man with a straight face?

I frequent the local thrift stores where there is often a Book of Mormon or two for sale. Often they have a testimony written inside the cover. I always leave my un-testimony along with a reference to CES letter. It is only fair that the fine print be included with the sales pitch.

They are pushing it harder and harder.

Like much of the manure coming out of ChurchCo, a lot depends on the identity of the audience they're playing to...

example: It's been said that Joey was against slavery in the North, but weaseled about it when he was in the south.

Perhaps someone has documented this other than ChurchCo, including his travel whereabouts & dates.

...everything took a turn for the worse in Mormondom? I know correlation is not proof of causation. But I'm pretty sure that they went in the wrong direction there.

They needed MORE Friberg illustrations. NOT LESS.

Before Friberg, it was just chloroform in print. After Friberg, it has reverted to its original sleeping gas quality.

With Friberg, it was exciting. Marvel comics? What a joke! DC Comics? Don't make me laugh!

Do you think Iron Man would last even one round with Buff Moroni? Just one of Buff Moroni's biceps is worth 5 Iron Man suits.

And who could forget the Baptism/Wet-T-Shirt scene? Nothing but hotties in diaphanous gowns being immersed in water and then parading out of the water? Inspiration for all deacons, teachers and priests. We wanted more Friberg illustrations to bring the Book of Mormon alive in our minds.

https://www.heirloomartco.com/products/baptism-in-ancient-america-br-by-arnold-friberg?variant=30060158477

But they got rid of the Friberg illustrations and now there's nothing left to hold anyone's interest.

Do we know who the artist is that did the not-too-far back Ensign cover with Joey 'translating' the Joke of Mormon, sitting at a Table with the plates?

Someone in the COB is incredibly stupid / naive OR has been told to use it anyway...

https://ldsbookstore.com/by-the-gift-and-power-of-god-print

This was the cover of the Feb. 2001 Ensign. But it was before the Essays came out acknowledging the holy hat and sacred stone method of translation.

I also love how Joseph Smith's image has morphed into "Blondish, buff surfer dude Smith"

https://www.lds.org/media-library/images/nauvoo-temple-joseph-art-lds-82988?lang=eng

Just out of the blue.

The whole time I was in the Morg, the preferred image was the, brunette, much less buff, metrosexual, "how do you like my blouse" version of Joseph Smith.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/joseph-smith

It's sometimes hilarious to see how uninhibited the ChurchCo leaders are in just making up whatever they want to and pushing it out there.

You can almost imagine how it goes in the board meetings:

"Hey, Dallin, what do you think of this new illustration for the prophet Joseph?"

"Ooooh! I like it! Looks more like one of those comic book superheroes that the kids like so much these days. Let's go with it. I never liked the older version. Made him look like an intern in a Manhattan fashion house. This new one is so much more ... you know...strong. Biff Smith. Chad Smith. The kids will relate to it much better.'

Reality and facts are never even considered. What will sell better? What will manipulate better? That's all that counts.