I thought we were taught and given a conference talk on pride. Watching Russ and the boys and girls in Rome was something else. Certainly lots of pride in how they did things plus photo sessions.

Now we have a big birthday bash for the head prophet note head prophet. They are very proud of this. So why all the talk about pride and how it is a sin.

What I am seeing is anything but how a prophet of God should act. I know I am from the old school. Russ had his chance to shine and be like Abinidi in the BoM. If he had done his research he would know this pope has blood on his hands from years ago before being Pope. He would have called him out on the way he is dealing with abuse in the Church. I could go on.

Sure he would have been asked to leave but it’s better to do that than kiss ass and pretend you are one of the top two spiritual leaders in the world.

Russ is a disappointment when compared to McKay and Kimball and that group of prophets I grew up with.

These guys are an insult to the apostles that Christ had thanks for letting me vent.

I think that most of us would agree that the church that we knew or grew up with disappeared a long time ago. I've been out for some 20 years ago and it appears very unrecognizable in some aspects. I think the only way for members to continue is to convince themselves that truth doesn't matter or to proudly hold their hand up to the sky and block out the sun.

The former surgeon and his lawyer buddy are busy living it up. They know that the church is not growing, and are basking in the limelight before the gravy train is gone.

Nelson and Oaks became "apostles" around the same time. Nelson obviously was fast-tracked in based on his personal relationship with Kimball--through which he also had formed a personal relationship with Hinckley. Oaks was also brought in under Kimball.

At the time, though, Hinckley was doing much of the real administrative work, so I suspect that Oaks was fast-tracked in because Hinckley wanted a slick lawyer/sophist/politically-connected guy to help out with Hinckley's PR agenda and other tricky stuff.

Eyring was officially brought in by Hinckley after Hinckley became the official Top Prophet Guy. It makes sense to see all three as having come in due to Hinckley's influence. Eyring's main claim to fame is being the son of a famous Mormon and member of a well-connected Mormon family, as well as being a RAND fellow and holder of advanced degrees in business management theory.

For much of his medical career, Nelson was actually heavy into the management/administration/organization side of things

Hinckley was a pragmatist who was not shy about embracing manipulative PR techniques to shape public perceptions in directions that he wanted to shape them. Numerous public utterances can reasonably be interpreted as indicating that he wasn't really a true-believer in the way that your typical devout rank-and-file Mormon would expect. He believed the organization was useful and could be used for "good" (however he and his colleagues decided to define "good"). I doubt that he believed that there ever were any ancient golden plates in a stone box in a hill near Joseph Smith's house.

The current FP members come from backgrounds in which ego tripping and arrogance are as common as flies on cow pies. Real "humility" would be a weakness in the areas they came from. But feigned humility could be useful at times. Their backgrounds are all about group manipulation -- organizational, administrative, legal and everything else.

You could say that their past experience in leadership positions are what qualify them. But the nature of those "leadership" positions were in very worldly, political, business contexts that had nothing to do with spirituality and philosophical integrity.

Mormon leadership has always lacked the very elements that people are indoctrinated to expect in religious leaders.

The suits, the ties, the meetings, the statistics, the budget analyses, the investment projects, the fund-raising, the public relations spin.... It's virtually indistinguishable from any large-sized, for-profit business corporation.

I don’t really understand, secular, why you would watch that if you are out?

Just curious.

I agree with your assessment of the current leaders, but really- were McKay and Kimball any better? Wasn’t it McKay who first insisted that the president of the church be referred to as “the Prophet”? And Kimball? He wrote “The Miracle of Forgiveness.” That’s more than enough to quality as a scum bag in my eyes.

We really know next to nothing about Jesus’ original apostles. Are the current ones really an insult to the originals? Who knows?

how interesting Crisp, I didn’t know they had not always been called Prophet.

How can they justify that title?

How can they justify that title? That is a great question. I suppose once you have people declaring that they “know” the Book of Mormon is true, despite a complete lack of objective evidence, you’re well on your way to having your followers believe anything.

Just for clarification: the top 15 have always been sustained as “prophets, seers, and revelators” (as far as I know), but the phrase “the prophet” used to only apply to Joseph Smith.

CrispingPin Wrote:
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> Just for clarification: the top 15 have always
> been sustained as “prophets, seers, and
> revelators” (as far as I know), but the phrase
> “the prophet” used to only apply to Joseph
> Smith.

That is very interesting! Reminds me of when Napoleon started to make himself emperor, he claimed the title of First Consul then disenfranchised the other Consuls.

I did Not spend a lot of time on the SS readings as you can tell!

However I just finished my taxes and it cracks me up to think of, on that line where the IRS has you write your occupation, him writing “Prophet.” :)

Russ doesn’t need to file a tax return for his “modest stipend,” does he? ;)

I don’t think there’s room on form 1040 to say “prophet, seer, revelator, God’s appointed mouthpiece on earth, President of the Corporation........”

CrispingPin Wrote:
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>
> I don’t think there’s room on form 1040 to say
> “prophet, seer, revelator, God’s appointed
> mouthpiece on earth, President of the
> Corporation........”

Oh Crisp you crack me up!!!!

Mel, it’s the least I can do. You’ve been a nice addition to this board.

ah shucks! Thank you!!! :) :) :)

CP is right.

Soft Machine Wrote:
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Just when I think life couldn’t get any better I get praise from soft machine. :) :) :)
I am SO happy to have found you all!!!!!

Another Agree!

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> CP is right.

Omg Lottie!!! Thank you. You are my hero on the board!!!

I can't see Ezra Taft Benson even wanting to meet Pope Francis let alone praise him like Russel M Nelson did.

Nelson looked like an idiot if you know what is currently going on inside the Catholic church and know something of the pope's past.

Yeah I have to agree with you on the pride thing. All it means is the church has enough money to bribe enough officials in Rome and hire construction companies to build there. It's all it means.

The Romans will be more than happy to take the church's money so they can have a temple next to the shopping mall and IKEA in the suburbs.

I'm willing to bet that the leaders hear good news all the time, but it has nothing to do with the church. It's all about their investments and dividends. The church is probably cranking out its profits like never before. That's what floats their boats. The wealth of the church probably makes them feel giddy and almost human. But they don't dare disclose the wealth and materialism that they've experienced as leaders of the church.

messygoop Wrote:
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> It's all about their investments and
> dividends. The church is probably cranking out its
> profits like never before. That's what floats
> their boats.

Yes, Messy. Sad. Private jets. First class tickets. Maybe evenings in temples closed to all but themselves, with lusciously gourmet catered meals, uniformed wait staff. Big trust funds for all their kids. Do they travel in armored Rolls with chauffeur? I can only imagine their lives supported by the working poor.

mel Wrote:
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>
> Do they travel in armored Rolls with
> a chauffeur? I can only imagine their
> lives supported by the working poor.
>


Here's the quickest link I could find of a partial photo of the armored Audi A8 that Monson rolled around in. Conservatively, Monson' car, when new, started at $650,000.

http://mormon*disclosures.blogspot.com/2015/09/monson-vs-francis-pope-and-prophet.html remove the *

rocomop wrote:

> photo of the armored Audi A8 that Monson rolled around in. Conservatively, Monson' car, when new, started at $650,000.

Ooof. It’s nice to be king. Thanks for the photo. That looks like it was a good blog. Wonder if the seats are ejectors into the CK instead of airbags? Wheee!!!

Tommy knew God wouldn’t stop bullets. I wonder if Russ has a little more faith.

Pride is an interesting topic.

A cult is an entity that requires the subordination of its members. Pride is a sin for an ordinary person unless it is pride in the achievements of the organization.

The organization, in turn, is the manifestation of the leader's ego. It is accordingly fine for the leader to experience pride since the collective is good and he is the mind and soul of that collective. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were immensely prideful people. Their pride was righteous pride.

It is only the worker bees who must sacrifice their egos, their pride.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> Pride is a sin for an ordinary person unless it is pride in the achievements of the organization.

Great post, Lottie. Boy oh boy did I get lectured on that when I joined the church. If I ventured to compliment the SS teacher on a class or anything, slapped down with the humility talk.
>
> It is accordingly fine for the leader to experience pride since the collective is good and he is the mind and soul...

Thank you for this very perceptive comment. No one ever explained that and now that you did, this all makes sense!

:) :) :)

They’re taking a cue from the megapastors. Prosperity sells. Their religion is now a regressive tax for the remaining believers. Blessings are bought by those who can least afford them. Any charity you can think of does more good with their money than TSCC.

There is so much pride in the lds church. I've thought about that for a long time. I live in a lower middle class neighborhood and ward LUCKILY. At least when I was active, they were the best ward I've ever lived in. There really are very few people who have lived here who acted "prideful."

What I see in Russ has been RIDICULOUS. As far as I'm concerned, he and Wendy are laughable. Like I said before, the countdown is on. Will he make it to his big birthday party. He is old enough anything could take him out at any moment. Then Wendy would lose the spotlight. Sure McKay and Kimball had their issues FOR SURE, but I'm just in shock over Russ.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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Babs,

That was unexpected! Great clip! Love when she sings the second verse in “pig-Latin” hilarious! That refrain indeed should be the hymn of LDS. We’re in the money—-indeed!!!!
Thanks so much for the laugh!!!

Maybe it's the lighter tone in her hair. Her singing voice is pretty much the same as it's always been.

I’ve postulated before here that they all look to me to have plenty of expensive “work” done and I include Romney Wendy and Russ for sure! Eyelifts, neck sag tightening with microneedlingand radio frequency at $4000 a pop at the dermatologist. The ever popular facelift. Juvederm fillers at a few thousand a year. Botox for any leftover lines. CO2 laser resurfacing to return your skin to baby softness, around $3500 for face and neck. Zap any age spots on you hands while yo are at it.

I used to joke with my girlfriend that if you have the money you can walk out looking like a 12-year old.

And we know they DO have the money!!!

I just took a close look at the Italy pictures.

I would guess Wendy is getting fillers and Botox to keep the forehead wrinkles down. She needs a neck lift badly though. Might have had some facial resurfacing because her skin quality is ok.

Russ is obviously getting fillers on his “marionette lines” (verticals nose to mouth). He has had work done on his neck and jowels for sure. Looks to be getting some forehead smoothing either Botox or fillers. I couldn’t see his hands. He badly needed a “Browplexy” to lift his eyebrows back to where they started but looks like he just had the eyelid lift and didn’t do the brows(mistake). Or he could have had this done at age 65 and it’s just settled back. At 95 he won’t be having any more surgery I would guess, just maintain where he’s At with shots of fillers and Botox.

That’s my 2c. :)