I mean, seriously. They don't care about spirituality. They don't care about following Jesus. They don't care about making the world a better place. They don't even care when their leaders can't keep it in their pants.

The rest of the world has lost all patience with their lies and failures. One could say that they are in it for the money, but there are other ways to get rich that allow you to actually spend your money and have fun. So I ask: what, deep down inside, is driving the G-15?

Power.

thegame2017 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Power.

Much like Venezuela. The leaders actually destroy the country to keep that grip on power.

Rubicon wrote,

> Much like Venezuela. The leaders actually destroy the country to keep that grip on power.

Ha! Yep!!!

You mean like the U.S. ?

Not like the U.S. In case you hadn't noticed, we're not yet eating our pets here.

I think the ones (GAs) who know what's going on feel they should lie for the good of the dependent sheeple.

Due to their emphasis on investment and real estate holdings (as opposed to actual charity) they can function off earnings with few actual people in the pews for a long time.

I don't think there will be a clear end game. Mormonism is a culture that many people were born into and define as their identity. Like other religions, most people value that no matter what nonsense the culture originally had.

I think the next generation or so of Mormons will believe they are simply Christians as the weird things are slowly modified. Other religions will accept them as partners to perpetuate Christianity and religion in general. JS and even Russ wouldn't recognize it 100 years from now. The BoM will be a goofy little piece of history and only useful things will be cherry picked from the old books- just like other religions do.

I think Mormons have studied other religions enough to know what they need to do to adapt and stay relevant to the culture they serve.

I would like to see it fizzle out but I suppose there is always the concern that something crazier will arise. Humans just can't help themselves.

"Other religions will accept them as partners to perpetuate Christianity and religion in general"

I don't think that will happen unless LDS Inc. somehow removes Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon from its history. Joseph Smith represents polygamy and the Book of Mormon is seen as blasphemy as it is an addition to the Holy Bible. Mormons will never be accepted as mainstream Christians, no matter what they call themselves.

The more mainstream the Mormon church tries to become, the more its membership will decline.

As far as the end game... I can't figure out what the goal is. It seems as if the church is morphing into more of a money-making corporation than a church. As a non-profit corporation it seems to be very profitable. I think that is their end game.

heartbroken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Other religions will accept them as partners to
> perpetuate Christianity and religion in general"
>
> I don't think that will happen unless LDS Inc.
> somehow removes Joseph Smith and the Book of
> Mormon from its history. Joseph Smith represents
> polygamy and the Book of Mormon is seen as
> blasphemy as it is an addition to the Holy Bible.
> Mormons will never be accepted as mainstream
> Christians, no matter what they call themselves.
>
> The more mainstream the Mormon church tries to
> become, the more its membership will decline.
>
> As far as the end game... I can't figure out what
> the goal is. It seems as if the church is morphing
> into more of a money-making corporation than a
> church. As a non-profit corporation it seems to be
> very profitable. I think that is their end game.

It's already happening. Christianity is on the wane and you are even going to see baptists and Mormons getting along in the future.

Boloney. Walk up to a Baptist and tell him/her you are a Mormon and see what kind of reaction you get. They have a bible school with a class that teaches why the Mormon church isn't true. I know this because during my mission, my comp and I had a discussion with some nice Baptist teenagers who told us about the anti-Mormon class they attended. They were very surprised that we were so nice after what they'd learned about Mormons. And no way in hell will Mormons embrace the Baptists unless they are baptized into the one and only true church, a.k.a Mormon church.

Rubicon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's already happening. Christianity is on the
> wane and you are even going to see baptists and
> Mormons getting along in the future.


In the west, yes. Elsewhere no. Christianity is still one of the top two fastest growing religions globally. In Communist countries where there has been state atheist repression such as Cuba and China, Christianity is making a comeback. Russia too where the state tried to enforce atheism. Christianity continues to be the most successful missionary religion - Islam is having some success, but its growth is a lot to do with birthrate.

I wonder that too. A few weeks ago I posted a link about them selling off their land in Florida:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jan/30/from-book-to-boom-how-the-mormons-plan-a-city-for-500000-in-florida
They don't appear to be interested in maintaining land for the sake of land like in generations past. Even though land is so important for end of days scenarios. They seem to be flipping investments into more short term profitable ventures. And Farms are not extremely lucrative these days.

But when an organization gets really big (like post secondary ed) they tend to create special committees that are organized to address certain problems to reach the unreachable, They have to fulfill contract obligations with these committees, and they have to support a large bureaucracy meant to solve problems.

The ones getting a pay check have to be loyal. And as in other non-profit businesses (who are actually in business making money) the ceo's and top brass have to increase their own salaries and perks to attract the best and brightest. The direction will be gated communities. Secret real estate holdings in resort communities that they will dish out to the very faithful. A few people will enjoy enormous wealth because of their supposed righteousness. They'll live like other billionaires live.

End game? You actually think they have an end game? I think you are being very, very generous, slskipper. Too kind.

From where I sit, this is classic "making it up as you go along" stuff. Textbook. And, they have a "too many cooks spoil the broth" thing going on as well. Even a nice crusty bread can't make this stew work anymore.

The major apostles have to be thinking "WTF" every time Russ/Wendy make a move.

Agreed. They are scrambling, reacting to events. There is no strategy at this point.

I think you underestimate the power of self delusion. I would guess that even if they know it is all a sham that they have convinced themselves that it is worth it to keep up the act. After all the sheeple would be lost without their manipulative influence.

They compromise their eternal salvation by their deception but are the impetus for the salvation of millions of sheeple.

Survival.

The end game is simple.

They have a kingdom. The control political power in utah and idaho with thier clutches extending to arizona.

If you look closely you'll see the royal families firmly entrenched in politics, finance, education, legal, construction, media, banking, real estate and agriculture.

For 170 years they have ruled an empire. They won't go quietly. The religious aspect of their empire allows them to control the masses. Block voting has been a staple of their empire. Controlling the church they control the vote. Though it can backfire as Mia found out.

Church:15
Jesus: nil

Don't forget Stardom, being worshipped by the minions. Think of Oaks and Bednar gloating as they dish out words of guilt and shame
as they peer from their thrones located up above the members.

The three prizes - Money, Power, and Prestige - until they croak, this to me is their "End Game". The more they get, the more they want. It is addicting.

They've been playing out the end game since day one. Con men are constantly hustling. It gives them their jollies

the bullshit flinging is one eternal round? My only hope is that this circular motion will end up circling the drain. Gurgle, gurgle, gulp, gulp. :)

Wasn't the original end game plan Joseph Smith's aspirations to overthrow the American government?

Now, the thing seems huge and unwieldy with the added benefit of (another) screwball at the top.

Hopefully, one of the GAs will get into a snit, brace himself financially, and spill the truth about the whole thing.

Unless, that is, he's worried about his children being victims of one of those mysterious hit-and-run accidents.

I thought Uchtdorf would have done it by now.

kathleen Wrote:
-----------------------------------
> Hopefully, one of the GAs will get into a snit, brace himself financially, and spill the truth about the whole thing.

I’m surprised they don’t form a coalition and stage a coup. How hard would it be to take control from a 95-year old?

A big wealthy corporation like this seems like it should have been the target of more hostile takeover activity.

They can't. Succession to the top office is mandated by strict legal regulations.

Sorry, TMBs, but inspiration has nothing to do with it, unless you count revelation about who gets to be an apostle and the order in which they die. Other than that, the laws of incorporation of the "church" state very explicitly who gets to be chief cook and bottle washer.

BTW, that was Brigham Young's term for the top dog.

World Domination is their end game. The Mormons have said so, from the beginning. Nelson and the other alluded to that in Rome.

That's money, power, and prestige carried to the extreme.

Look at the Mormons' "Warrior" images, from "stripling warriors" to "The Armies of Helaman" to all those bloody battles in their precious BOM.

In my (abused and tortured) mind, Mormonism is an AGGRESSIVE cult of hate, that is arrogant enough to think it deserves to conquer the Earth.

In the meantime, LDS, Inc. is growing their real estate holding corporation, and buying all the land they can, all over the world, overpopulating it, polluting it, traveling across it First Class, broadcasting, advertising, sending out missionaries to every "nation, kindred, tongue and people" or whatever.

Exmin, agreed. Especially about overpopulating it. I think their Achilles heel is their refusal to pay people. Constantly rotating untrained volunteers limits their effectiveness.

"World Domination is their end game. The Mormons have said so, from the beginning. Nelson and the other alluded to that in Rome."


The smaller the sect, the grander the vision: basic psychological compensation for being a dipstick sect in the Land of Erewhon.

Power, influence, control, money. Mormonism would like to be the biggest and most influential Christian denomination on the planet. And they never will be for reasons they do not understand.

The top guys are the ones who have been winning at the game pretty much all their lives.

It's like a game of monopoly. Or some other board game. (In my case it was a "bored" game.)

Isn't it amazing how some people can get so worked up about something that they *should* know is "just a game". But they invest their egos in it, their pride...and their competitive nature comes to the fore. You can see serious adults become way too engrossed in simple board games or card games. Just like some people who occupy high positions of responsibility in society can often be observed turning into ill-tempered children obsessed with winning something as silly as a round of golf.

Once they get a taste of winning and dominating other players in the game, they want the game to keep going.

The top leader guys in Mormonism are addicted to the game because they've been getting high on all the winning they've been doing.

They've been keeping score.

How many points do you get for being selected for a high-status "leadership" role as a missionary?

How many points do you get for being a bishop at a young age?

How many points do you get for being called to be a general authority?

How many points do you get for meeting the pope?

How many points do you get in the game for meeting the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and the President of the United States?

How many points do you get for having hagiographical books published about your life?

How many points do you get for being able to write and publish a Deseret Books "Best Seller" (e.g. Hinckley's "Standing in Something")?

How many points do you get for being able to command several million people to stop calling themselves "Mormons" and then sit back and watch them all fall in line and obey?

Conversely, how many points do you get for being a nobody tithepayer who spent the last two weekends cleaning toilets at the local church? You get negative points. You're a loser. For any game to have winners, it also has to have losers.

The top leader guys are just overgrown children who have been playing the game of "LDS Church" and have been winning so much that they don't want the game to ever stop. It feeds their egos more than anything else. But it doesn't hurt that it also provides guaranteed financial security for them and their families for the rest of their lives once they get into the Winner's Circle.

"Standing in Something"

Just slipping that in to see if anyone is paying attention?

Nice!

Guffaw! "Standing in Something!"

Thanks for the laugh of the night! I'll wake up in the morning, still laughing at this!

(I'm saving this to use at the right opportunity!)

talking about Jesus as a means to take people's money is so much easier than actually working for a living.

They don't have an end game. They don't think that far ahead.

They just want to keep things going while they are alive so they can have adulation, moral superiority, power, and lots of money. And they want their kids to be set.

They know there's no End Game in the religious sense of the word.

I think that the job of being an apostle just kills them. Outwardly, they are in charge of a sinking ship. They get no respect. World leaders have a summit or conference and nobody EVER thinks to invite the mormons.

What really excites the church leaders is their financial success that only they know about. They are really good investors and they probably raise a lot of hoopla among themselves every time a weekly stock report is announced. They have to keep all their wall street wizardry to themselves. I think having to keep a fake church-spiritual persona is eating them alive.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2019 03:14PM by messygoop.