Not sure if this is church wide. I suspect it is. But all high councilmen had task of passing on this message about bearing testimonies. You are to make them short. You are to say you know 1. Gospel is true 2. Church is true 3. Russ is prophet 4. Book of Mormon is true 5 Jesus is the Christ. Then say amen, sit down. No further explanations are to be given. No stories. No scripture readings etc. You are not required to explain how you know these things are true.

They quoted a number of recent GA talks where they say that is all that is required when bearing your testimonies. I heard this same message in two wards by two different high councilmen plus last Sunday at a singles Fireside. Plus several over pulpit talks plus a priesthood lesson. Telling how you know is out.

Can we all say this is Russ and Wendy and the top boys controlling the message. What I find interesting is out SP is a lawyer.

Anyone in other stakes getting same type of message. Thanks.

Why not just give them scripted testimonies to read? A piece of paper with a few pre-approved sentences ought to suffice. They can have Heartsell music playing over the speakers like mormon Muzak.

Hell, the GAs already do it at conference, they just call it a teleprompter.

the correct testimony.

Then during each F&T meeting they can replay Morgan's reciting of the correct testimony about 15 times, with accompanying "inspirational" music, reaching a crescendo 15 seconds after Morgan says his "amen"...after which the members of the congregation all say "amen" (when cued by the bishop ringing a bell) in unison with the playing of a recording of the TabCATS singing a climactic "aaaa~aaahhhh~meeeehhhhn".

The thing is this. The ordinary members of the Church have proven to the leaders over and over and over again that they simply cannot be trusted to do anything right. They screw up EVERYTHING. The ordinary members are almost hopelessly incompetent.

The leaders obviously having nothing but fully justified contempt for the morons they've been stuck with--this pathetic flock of incompetents that God has suffered to allow into his one true church. That's why the leaders have to wear themselves out instructing the dimwitted ordinary members in every little thing.

Last week they had to be taught the correct name of the church itself.

This week it's the correct way to bear one's testimony.

Next week, they will have to issue directions on how to put the sacrament bread in one's mouth and then chew it without biting one's own fingers or tongue.

The week after that, the Brethren will have to teach the blithering idiots how to drink the sacrament water without accidentally sticking the sacrament cups in their ears or noses by mistake.

Then they may move on to teaching the members of the Church how to tie their shoes. But I suspect that the leaders will likely conclude that this will be too difficult to teach, so they may instruct ALL members to wear loafers or shoes that can be fastened with EZ-velcro straps.

What are genius Prophets and Apostles to do when God has burdened them with leading complete idiots? What to do? What to do? It almost seems a hopeless task. Thank god for such unselfish, hard-working leaders.

After I die Morgan Freeman will be narrating my life.

ZeFrank's "True Facts about Morgan Freeman":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch5MEJk5ZCQ

Judge to witness: "You are to testify that you know the defendant is guilty, that you know this is an honest and just court of law, that the judge is a person of the highest integrity and above reproach, and that the prosecutor is the enforcer of true justice. Then you are to sit down. No embellishment or ad-libbing in your testimony. Testify the way you are supposed to--the way you are instructed to. That's the only valid testimony."

It's abundantly clear that they don't even know what the word "testimony" means.

Now, they're all 4-year-old children: "I...I...know duh chooch is twoo. What? What did you say mommy? Okay... I...I...know duh gomspul is twoo...I know dat pwesi...pwesumudent Neeson is twoo....I know dat duh booger of moymon is twoo and jebus is crisp...no...jebus is cryist.... Okay. I'm done. Can I have the cheerios now mommy?

The testimonies of little children saying everything their parents whisper in their ear annoyed me so much. Like, that’s a true testimony? Children bearing a “testimony” of things they “know” to be true without even understanding half of what they’re saying is hypocritical of the parents. I saw it as robotic.

I'm guessing that it has something to do with the speakers who get up and sound like they are starting a regular testimony, then they being talking about problems with the church. This is pretty common, according to youtube. Keeping it script gives the leaders/bouncers a heads up before they get duped and the whole meeting goes off the rails, according to them.

"I know the church is true...on account of it being the only church that knows about the magic powers of peepstones. Them other churches they don't know nuthin'. But this church has the underwear, the magic stones, and the true doctrine of many wives, I sh*t you not brothers and sisters..."

(We had a few like that back in the day. I guess the leaders figure that the members just can't handle anything that could be slightly disturbing. The members are all little idiot children in the eyes of the brethren...and must be treated as such at all times.) ;o)

It's so nice that Rusty is slowly tackling his list of long-time irritants. Obviously he's been sitting in F&T meetings for years, secretly fuming about the testimonies regarding the finding of missing car keys.

Perhaps Mormons should not only say the same testimony, but say it in unison. That's how the Catholics do it when they recite the Apostles' Creed -- "I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit..." Perhaps Rusty picked up this valuable tip when he met with the Pope? It's such a time-saver.

So, kinda like the sacrament prayers? Will the members get corrected by the bishop if they mess up the script and have to start over?

Haven't they tried this before? It will be obeyed for awhile but eventually they will go off script again. F&T is the only chance for some to show off how blessed, spiritual, faithful, etc they are.

exactly! F&T meeting is the best time to brag and brag. That's all that I remember about it. It's all about the family. The grandkids, who's getting married. There's not much to do with how thankful they are for the gospel. It's the time people can show their pride and not be prideful.

This is one of the biggest reasons I walked out of mormondom years ago.

exactly! F&T meeting is the best time to brag and brag. That's all that I remember about it. It's all about the family. The grandkids, who's getting married. There's not much to do with how thankful they are for the gospel. It's the time people can show their pride and not be prideful.

This is one of the biggest reasons I walked out of mormondom years ago.

Especially with the two hour block.

This seems like another attempt to get the non-brainwashed to leave. Maybe demeaning members is the right approach. Treat them like imbeciles and they’ll eat it up. Isn’t that how it always worked?

So now they're going to take the fun out of the testimony meetings. No more will the faithful hear of the wolf beating down someone's door, or travel or business adventures. At one of the last testimony meetings I ever attended, a woman got up and with tears streaming down her face, declared how glorious had been their Caribbean cruise because she got to hand out pass out cards to many fellow travelers.

That's kinda my take on it, too. Hearing stories about travels, adventures, grandchildren, whatever - was what made it at least tolerable.

I guess Russ figures he only has this one chance to leach anything that might verge on enjoyment out of Mormondom, and by gum, he's going for it.

Sign me "Glad to be OUT catnip."

The bad news is it removes one of the last vestiges of spontaneity from LDS Inc. The good news is that it was mostly spontaneous horse hooey, and they are well rid of it.

No doubt ol' Russ is a control freak. But how will we get Brother Austin's monthly update on his prostate problems if not in testimony meeting?

Seems the same to me...

https://www.lds.org/church/news/first-presidency-letter-testimonies-in-fast-and-testimony-meeting?lang=eng

equals brief and memorized?

Also discourages kids until they know what a testimony is (i.e. know the words to say as we tell them)

Most members understand this meeting is now for the needy ward weirdos to have a platform. No normal gets up anymore.

Maybe this is a prelude to getting rid of F&T altogether. After a while, without any variation, what would be the point of even having it. Course, that may just be too logical of an assumption, and we all know the church isn't logical.

The bishop should be required to stand next to each testimony bearer and whisper those 5 things in their ear before they say them.

Whispering via the five points of fellowship.

Isn't there a part that talks about a church service where people go to the front, babble the same thing and it's repeated over and over?

I thought it was about vain repetitions; a jab at the evil abominable church.

I looked forward to the kooks. It broke up the monotony of JS praising and the profit lovers. There was one sister that loved the works of Edgar Allen Poe. She would weave her favorite parts of "The Raven" into her testimony. I appreciated her creativity with poetry.

The Zoramites said a rote prayer from their tall podium.

The Zoramites were also the ones that demanded anyone entering the church wear specific clothes.

Thanks Heartless.

After typing it out, I wasn't even sure if I recalled the story correctly. I haven't touched a BoM in 20 years.

Edit: I'm going to start calling them Zoramites.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2019 09:51PM by messygoop.

It would be much simpler and faster if they just did this.....

Bishop: And now brothers and sisters, we'll open the time for sharing our testimonies. Your testimonies are as follows....You know the gospel is true, you know the church is true, you know President Nelson is a prophet, you know the book of mormon is true, you know jesus is the christ.

Bishop: All those in favor signify by raising your right hand.

Bishop: You may now say amen.

Congregation: Amen.

Bishop: Our closing hymn will be "My Testimony Grows", a selection from "Music from the Friend"

This is how mantras get started. Just recite:

GospelistrueChurchistrueRussisprophetBookofMormonistrueJesusistheChrist


five times quickly and you're saved for the day.

So they cut out the JS being a true prophet of God part? Wow. What about the people who practiced a long time to perfect their academy award winning tears? No more, a pity.

I have seen into the future.

One brother or sister will be chosen to stand at the podium and say "The Testimony" and then the congregation
will raise their arm to the square and say in unison, Innanamajesuscristamen.

I mean, as long as they are going to the generic--take it all the way. No one wants to be peculiar anymore.

Oops. I see now Roy G. already said very similar.

Grand Judge Bishop: Bruthrun and Sisterns, now is the time for your testimonies. Let Sister Sanctimonious come toe the stand please.

Sister Sanctimonious: Holy, holy Heavenly Father; we know how great thou art and we know that thou art holy, and that thou wast a spirit, and that now thou art a body of flesh and bone, and that thou wilt be a body of flesh and bone forever.
Holy Heavenly Father, we know that thou hast separated us from the Gentiles; and we do not believe in the tradition of our fellow Christians, which was handed down to them by the childishness of their fathers; but we know that thou hast elected us to be thy holy children; and also thou hast made it known unto us that there is The Christ.

But thou art the same yesterday, today, and forever; and thou hast elected us that we shall be exalted, whilst all around us not having our rituals are elected to be cast by thy wrath down to hell; for the which holiness, O Heavenly Father, we thank thee; and we also thank thee that thou hast elected us, that we may not be led away after the foolish traditions of other believers in Christ, which doth bind them down to a belief of Christ, which doth lead their hearts to wander far from thee, our Heavenly Father.

And again we thank thee, O Heavenly Father, that we are a chosen and a holy people. Amen.

Grand Judge Bishop: Thank you Sister Sanctimonious. Now all you who know what Sister Sanctimonious has said is true, bow your heads and say, "Yes."

Grand Judge Bishop: That will do.

Reminds me of a joke.

A man goes to prison and the first night while he's laying in bed contemplating his situation, he hears someone yell out, "44!" Followed by laughter from the other prisoners.

He thought that was pretty odd, then he heard someone else yell out, "72!" Followed by even more laughter.

"What's going on?" he asked his cellmate.

"Well, we've all heard every joke so many times, we've given them each a number to make it easier."

"Oh," he says, "can I try?"

"Sure, go ahead."

So, he yells out "102!" and the place is dead quiet save for a few groans. Confused, he looks at his cellmate who is just shaking his head.

"Hey, what happened?"

"Well, some people can tell a joke, some people can't."

Testimonies are subliminals. Members with their hokey stories are interfering with the brainwashing.

This just takes control one step further. Correlation, correlation, and more correlation wiping out the testimony meeting where spontaneity, sincerity, and often humor could be found. Sure makes me wonder how frequently someone has used F&T meetings to present their truth - truth that does not meet with the cult's approval (like the girl who came out to the ward in F&T Meeting that she was gay or the victim of past Mission Pres. Bishop's sexual abuse speaking out in his ward in Arizona at F&T meeting)

I myself am aware of four such people, and I'll bet this number, to certain big whigs, is four people too many. I can see Bednar and Oaks pontificating that such action by the peons cannot be allowed, and by damn, they know how to stop it.

I think the big whigs are weary of all the "thinking" and "leaving" that is occurring and has been occurring for the past 5 ro 10 years. They have spent time and I'll bet more money than they care to on rescues such as the Swedish and Boise Rescues, and leaders such as Corbridge and Holland have done their level best to scare members to STAY IN THE BOAT! My guess is that these attempts have not been as successful as they were hoped to be.

So, here is a plan they believe they can better control. Hmmm, I wonder how many members just might find this a little too much controlling, you know along with the cult assigning what subject a member's talk must be on, members are of the devil if they say they are a Mormon, men must wear only white shirts to church and sleeved clothing if you are a woman, and on and on and on.

Perhaps some of these trivial changes are even taking the "tribal members" out. Community or not, they are tired of being treated like misbehaving children. Nice to think so!





















1



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2019 08:43PM by presleynfactsrock.

From the article:

"In the past the First Presidency has expressed concern that in some instances, members who desire to bear their testimonies in fast and testimony meeting do not have the opportunity to do so."

So it appears the reason for the new rule is to leave time for everyone to bear their testimony. Odd. I don't think I've ever sat through a testimony meeting that wasn't filled with uncomfortable silences because no one would stand up. After a particularly long silence someone would finally stand up - usually the Bishop, just so it wouldn't be uncomfortable for the congregation knowing that no one wanted to stand up and bear their testimony.

The brethren can't very well say that the real reason for the new rule is to stifle the members who use the testimony meeting to talk about their vacations, ailments, or stories of their encounters with the three Nephites. That might embarrass someone.

My favorite testimony of all time was when one of the very weird members stood up and told us all that he carried a toothbrush with squished bristles in his pocket. One day he took it out of his pocket and the bristles were straight! In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

My SS teacher was always furious that testimonies weren’t being done “right.”

He would talk about how a proper testimony would only last 15 seconds. He would model it for us students at the end of every class. He would vary it a little from these new recommendations but his end-of-class testimony would always be short and businesslike.

Old men like Russ and my teacher just want things done “right” and they’re so annoyed. They don’t admit that what they want will only come true with paid trained professionals not unpaid volunteer members no matter how many rules they put in place.

Can gen Y (current 20's or so) folks have Gladys Knight or perhaps the Osmonds for accompaniment rather than the MoTab?


How about a Power Point presentation?


tech savvy, ya know...

Seriously, what is the point of Testimony Meeting if they're all expected to say the same things practically verbatim? I never quite got the point of it the old way, either, but there were just enough crazies in every ward I ever attended to make it considerably more entertaining than Sac Mtg in any other form.

Why don't the brethren just type up a manifesto once each month, send it electronically to be printed out by each bishopric, where it is then either posted or put on a clipboard for all ward members to sign?

Chance for parents of Russian abductees to tell how Thankful they are for son's release / return.


Sheesh, another step to eliminate and/all spontaneity :(

correlation on steriods.

Consider this scenario:

The mishies finally convince an investigator to attend church (or a member convinces a friend or neighbor to attend ) and they happen to attend on FS.

Consider from the Point of view of the nonMormon - after the sacrament is passed, you see a steady stream of people all stand up and recite the same thing.

TSCC might as well put a big electronic sign at the front of the chapel that constantly flashes in big, red letters

CULT....CULT....CULT....CULt....CULT

of the Nelson is included, right alongside the Gospel, the Church, the Book of Moron and Jebus Christ.

But aside from stroking the Nelson's ego, what does it all mean?

1. The Gospel is true? (What is the "gospel" other than a poorly defined hodge-podge of shifting doctrines, discredited and phony revelations and a game of Simon Says, recast as a game of "living prophet says" whereby anything that a once-living-but-now-dead prophet preached potentially counts for nothing and can be overturned by any living prophet? The putative "eternal truth" that "man is as god once was" can be demoted to silly "couplet" status in the blink of an eye. The "gospel" is true. What a joke! You may as well just say that you know that the "thingamabob" is true.)

2. The Church is true. (What is the "church" other than a bunch of buildings, an organizational flowchart denoting a rigid hierarchical authority structure and a bunch of pretentious old guys in suits who give themselves titles that falsely imply that they have abilities and functions that they really do not have? I notice that in recent years, many things such as the ban on black people going to the temple and holding the priesthood are being referred to as "past church policies" instead of "revealed truths and doctrines". Another one is the wife's oath of submission and wearing of the veil in the temple. This too was recently referred to as a "policy of unknown origin" when it was changed. The fact that they changed it strongly implies that they now view it as having been a bad and wrong policy. But it was a policy implemented and enforced by "the Church". The Church is true (but its polices often suck fart gas). Again, what a joke! You may as well say that you know that Pizza Hut is true.

Pretty much the same for all the rest. "I know that the Nelson is a true prophet, seer and revelator." Yeah, right. You mean the guy who never prophesies, never gets any info from the seer stone and whose most famous "revelation" to date is nothing other than his long-standing pet peeve against people using the "Mormon" nickname (even though past "prophets" were totally happy to express pride in the nickname).

Tommy Monson would never pass this one. He seldom testified about Book of Mormon at all.

What about

I testify that American Indians are Lamanites from the Middle East and white guys should marry them so they can be white like us.


I testify that black people are black because they are cursed from Cain. They deserve to be black because they were bad, bad, bad in the preexistance. But, if they are good now the will be white and have a cadillac in the next life."

These were acceptable testimonies in the past. WTF

This does make me wonder what is the point. If everyone complies with the directions from the grumpy old men and gives a 15-second testimony.

I think there will be a traffic jam of people coming and going so fast. Maybe the old people will get trampled and thus speed up leaving their money to the church?

It's not going to result in more converts. It's not going to save time (since an hour is allotted, and finishing early doesn't really result in anything).

As far as I can tell, it was just annoying to the old men, so they want everybody to do everything the way they are 'supposed' to.

I guess the point is just to enforce more conformity?

Public speaking (and to a smaller extent expository writing) is one of the few valuable skills I believe I sharpened during my time at church. This was especially true in the YSA ward where I constantly felt the need to show off to XYZ girl I wanted to impress.

Guess the risks of honest self-reflection are too high to be allowed to continue unchecked.

There will be looooong gaps between people bearing testimony, and no one to fill in the time.

This used to happen in Relief Society - it was very uncomfortable and embarrassing for everyone there.
And then the RS president would get up and beach how she could not stand to see all this precious time go to waste.
LOL

I found it entertaining to see the RS presidency squirm.

I have no fondness of F&T. I never recall a meeting ending 5-10 minutes early. No no no.

Usually, a bishoprick counselor would get up and start to lay a guilt trip on ward members for not taking advantage of the time (after 20 min of silence with every member staring down at his/her feet). So then the flurry to motor-mouth their sob stories would begin. The I'm so sorry brother, the cat lady, the I'm depressed sister but yay for Jesus, the I just got back from Zion brother and I'm bipolar sister would compete to see how much longer each one could drive the sacrament meeting beyond 70 minutes. Yep. About 90 minutes worth of terror.

My Dad would actually embarrass my Mom. He would get up (and lots of members took notice~ he could be very funny when he shared his testimony) but he would walk out of the chapel and wait in the car for us kids and my Mom to come out. If he was in a foul mood, he'd honk the car horn over and over as F&T went over time (we were last in the building at 4pm or 5pm).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2019 02:10PM by messygoop.

This story is funny and a great example of how entertaining f&t meeting could be. Your Dad put the bishop between a rock and a hard place about chastising him....he first bore his testimony, then skipped out and could sit honking the horn. Bishop can't get too mad at him - after all, he bore his testimony.

Let's see, no more RS bazaars where the ladies could make their "own money" for their org, no more I-can-outdo-your-missionary-farewell-and-homecoming-extravaganzas, no more cherished Gold-n-Green Balls, no more baseball and basketball tournaments (even with out of state teams), etc. etc. etc.

Instead, you are "allowed" to stand and give a STANDARD 5 point, no more or less, from the heart? testimony while wearing the appropriate clothing, even down to the right white color, and one-set-of-earrings, thank you very much.

Oh my, oh my....what a dreary church MORMONISM has become.

Hilarious about honking the horn. Nobody in my ward was so brave.

I agree that practice speaking to an audience is a good skill and one that many members have developed. There were a few really good speakers and even some who at least were brave enough to get up there in front of everybody. I admired that.

It was always weird to me that the really great, and well-prepared speakers, were treated the same and asked to speak only as often as the pitifully bad speakers.

If they did use the good ones more often it might mean people came more often. But of course that would make sense-can't have that!

will males be required to cradle = hold their testicles while giving their testimony?

THAT might be worth seeing!!

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> THAT might be worth seeing!!

Oooh the church just got interesting!!! I like it!

They've tried this for years, and it never has worked. But "requirements" when bearing testimony? Is that a thing?

that the most important part of a testimony is to know that Russ is God's Chosen Prophet. The speaker was the Area Media Person. This person is in charge of making sure all news releases are released and she answers questions about the Church to the media.

Here is the reasoning. All other prophets are now gone so this is the one that God is working with now. The other prophets had their turn working with the people in a different time period. So Russ is chosen to be our prophet in this time period and in these worldly conditions. He is giving us directions for our day. The other prophets who have passed were only to give instructions and directions for those people who were living at that time period and for those worldly conditions at that time period.

So why study the Book of Mormon or the Bible. They were different times and different conditions. Oh wait I must have missed something. Yea I am thinking too much. This was not the way I was taught being raised in the Church.

same ole crap-ola, folks!

How much change in 'the gospel' should we expect / be prepared for?


I've lived in the days of each since D.O. McKay, must I choose between-among what they've said over the years?

When the most recent prophet / profit hasn't remarked or spoken on something that a previous prophet / profit did, does the earlier teaching/doctrine/message still stand / be in effect (unless nullified)?

'Ward hear the words of my mouth'