When you were an active Mormon, did you know that the Top 15 were given a "monthly living stipend"? In 2014, that "stipend" was 10K a month (120K a year) plus full medical/dental for their families, plus all traveling expenses.

Now,these men are all retired, they all had excellent 401K's I'm sure. Question is: could they live comfortable on their normal retirements they received from their normal careers?

Is it necessary that they get $120,000 per year on top of full coverage and full travel expenses?

The Governing Body of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society get $200 a month living stipend, plus free room and board, and basic medical (that every Bethelite receives equally). Why do Mormon leaders need 120K on top of their own pensions on top of full travel expenses?

because they are SPECIAL and have found a way to get fool members to support them and do free labor cleaning toilets.

whatever!

the financial benefits that are siphoned into the pockets of the top leaders (which goes a long way toward explaining why they are so adamantly opposed to transparency).

Payments for "expenses" are probably not limited to only travel expenses.

The "Prophet" is given the use of a luxury condominium owned by the Church (and exempted from property taxes).

Who knows what other kinds of living/housing benefits are given to other top GAs? We know that the Church owns all kinds of real estate everywhere.

I remember back around the time when Howard Hunter was the Pres. there was some scandal about the family of a GA using a church credit card to buy furniture and other personal use items. Supposedly, the church was demanding a return of the amounts in question after the relevant GA died. (The story circulated on the Internet for a while, but I can't find it now. I guess it got scrubbed.)

I have strong suspicions that the main (only?) reason that Gordon B. Hinckley's son was promoted to GA status shortly before GBH died was simply to get a nice retirement package for him (the son). Indeed, the son retired (went on "emeritus" status) shortly after becoming an official GA.

And that leads to another huge, mirky, misty area in which GAs and their families can benefit bigly from the insider status of the GAs, including, for example, free tuition at church-owned colleges and universities, preference in hiring at church-owned or affiliated businesses, preference in contracting for church projects or church-sponsored projects, benefits conferred by loyal Mormon millionaires and billionaires (e.g. the private jet that Hinckley and his son often used and I wouldn't be surprised if they get some sweet deals with Marriott), etc., etc....

It's also likely that the higher-ranking leaders can schedule "church business" activities in places where they actually want to go on vacation...and that's where those "travel expenses" can come in handy. Travel covered by travel expenses also leads to large accumulations of personal frequent-flyer miles, which in turn can be converted into free trips and upgrades.

Back to the stipend...it too has probably increased considerably since 2014.

I have a relative who is reasonably close to Richard Hinckley. The story the relative tells is that Richard got bored and told his father he wanted to be a GA. Gordon told him that that could happen but he'd have to serve as a stake president first.

We were at a family event some years later at which Richard made an obligatory appearance. He did very little but glare at another relative who had served in a significant role and then left the church. The glorious GA apparently wanted to call him to repentance.

It was all a little pathetic. Everyone knew that, despite Gordon's disavowal, Richard only got the job due to nepotism. I'm not surprised he was soon put out to pasture.

https://wheatandtares.org/2017/01/10/ever-wonder-how-much-president-monson-gets-paid-now-we-know/

these jerks are traveling all over the world like a lot of retirees do but they have cult members foot the bill and clean toilets. what a deal


Yet, as FairMormon contends, “Dedicating themselves full time at the sacrifice of substantial careers, these leaders live modestly, work tirelessly, keep grueling travel schedules, and continue doing so well past an age when others retire.”

4evergone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Yet, as FairMormon contends, “Dedicating
> themselves full time at the sacrifice of
> substantial careers, these leaders live modestly,
> work tirelessly, keep grueling travel schedules,
> and continue doing so well past an age when others
> retire.”

I love how disingenuous that is. Quite a few (if not the majority) of the GAs did not "sacrifice" any substantial careers. Many of them spent the entirety of their pre-GA lives working for the church or church-owned/affiliated companies. Going from there to GA status is a promotion--i.e. a continuation their church careers at a higher level.

Monson, Hinckley and Packer are excellent examples of lifetime church careerists. Holland and Bednar are slightly more ambiguous examples. But the general perception is that the position of university president at church-owned universities is part of the upward path to General Authority status. When you hear them talk about their positions at the university, they make it sound like they were "callings" so these guys too are basically church careerists who always aspired to be GAs.

Others may have had real careers outside of the LDS Church sphere of influence. But most of them indeed retired with benefits before becoming a full-time GA. The GA gig is then a nice supplement. Many healthy, active retirees would like to have high-status, paying jobs in their retirement years. For Mormon retirees who have aspired to church leadership positions all their lives, getting a GA calling is a dream come true.

As for the "work tirelessly" and "keep grueling travel schedules" part, that's highly debatable. If they don't feel well, they can cancel an event. Cancellations of GA visits happen from time to time--often with very little explanation given other than some cryptic excuse along the lines of "Due to a scheduling conflict, Brother Fillintheblank could not join us this week, but has indicated that a visit will be rescheduled in the near future." There is no evidence that GAs who are in bad condition are forced to work grueling hours or stick with a grueling travel schedule. Many get put on "emeritus" status as soon as they decide that they just don't have the energy to keep up appearances anymore.

That’s all they sold their souls for? The modern equivalent of 30 pieces of silver? It’s peanuts compared to what comparable business leaders make.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> That’s all they sold their souls for? The modern
> equivalent of 30 pieces of silver? It’s peanuts
> compared to what comparable business leaders make.


Agreed. $10k/month is not that much, relatively speaking.

By way of examole, I was looking at the proxy statement for a Fortune 200 company earlier today. Each of the board members receives over $200k/yr in cash, benefits, and equity just to show up at a couple of meetings a year. Most of them sit on multiple similar boards simultaneously and draw similar salaries there. Many of them also make seven figure salaries in their "day jobs" as executives at other big companies.

I mean, the starting salary for law school graduates at big-name firms is $190k/yr plus benefits and bonuses. Peiple with thirty and firty years if seniority make much, much more.

All that said, you could never pay me enough to be a mormon GA. No amount of money is worth it--certainly not $120k/yr!

You need to go back to church and pick up some self esteem issues. You don’t want millions of people fawning all over you?

.... That figure is most likely referring to the base stipend (and is probably out of date by now). IIRC, they refer to a base stipend, so that they can point to it and say "look how modest that is!" But a base is something that you can pile things on top of...and I have little doubt that they pile on various kinds of other compensation on top of the base as you go up the hierarchy ladder.

I remember when GBH tried to make it sound like he was sacrificing compared to Fortune 500 CEOs and such.

Whatever the math works out to, it's important to keep in mind how little accountability and stress these Mormon leaders have in comparison to executives who have to produce quarterly results and give full disclosure to shareholders and regulators.

The Mormon leaders are surrounded by fawning "yes" men and "yes" women. Their accountability is only to God and if you ever want to know what God thinks of the performance of the top Mormon leaders...well...you have to ask the top Mormon leaders, because they're the only ones who are allowed to "speak for God" on such matters. Quite convenient.

It's quite a racket. Perfect for narcissists whose egos have insatiable appetites. You know, the kind of "leaders" who love it when congregations stand up whenever the leader enters a room. The kind of leaders who love pretentious titles and love meeting with world business, political and religious leaders (whom they like to think of as their real peers). But for anyone who would naturally feel embarrassed about being the leader of an obviously fraudulent religious organization, the job would not be particularly attractive. I've seen no indication that the Mormon "General Authorities" are capable of feeling such embarrassment.

I’ve heard this before. High level CEO’s are not 80-95 years old. They are “put out to pasture” long before that in the vast majority of cases.

It's actually closer to $400,000-$800,000 in CEO payments to the chief executives of the TSCC. The dollar figure you got is contrived and artificially low. The Q15 were getting paid $60,000 a year in the 1960's, that's been 50 years ago. Plus all the perks, benefits, and stock portfolios. David O. McKay bought each of his apostles at that time a brand new shiny Cadillac from tithing proceeds.

CEO's today make much more than 120,000 per annum. The key with TSCC is it isn't transparent. To suggest that is all they're earning is grabbing at straws I daresay, because in all reality, they're pulling in much more than that. It's just that you nor I will be none the wiser because that is how they want it to be. TSCC has zero accountability to its members or ex-members alike.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2019 09:44AM by Amyjo.

Agreed. It’s not just the salary, it’s all the stuff you get for free. Just like our congress, flying themselves and their friends for free on military jets anywhere they want to go.

When you don’t buy cars, or gas, or insurance nor repairs, nor houses and their furnishings nor lunches nor dinners out. You don’t pay for cleaners nor gardeners. Your taxes are prepared. Your dry cleaning is expensed.

That’s how the top brass does it where I work. It’s not the stipend it’s all the other stuff that is provided for free that gives them such a nice ride. They are banking their own retirement rncome totally for their heirs. Not even touching a penny of it.

I wouldn’t mind except for in the GA case it’s dirty money. Ill-gotten gains from condoning a mountain of lies.

Every banker knows that small sums add up to big sums over time, so do Mormon leaders.

The Mormon "church" is taking food out of the mouths of the babies of foolish members who hand over their money.

Of course the morg does not want regular members to know what they are doing with the money and how it is spent.
It is SECRET.

You can be sure most members would be aghast to know what the top are paid and how they really live.

"The Mormon "church" is taking food out of the mouths of the babies of foolish members who hand over their money."

And Nelson told the poorest in Africa that if they will send their money to Salt Lake, they will rise out of poverty.

What's sad is they believe him and give what little bit they have away to the greedy corporation with nothing in return but a pipe dream. It works great for Nelson!

It is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS
About money!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure they are all considered ministers, as are mission presidents, etc. I know from being on committees at our church that a church can declare part of a Minister's pay as money for a parsonage (housing). It doesn't have to be a house that the church owns or anything like that. Our ministers always want as much of their pay to be considered for their "Parsonage" because it is tax exempt. I'd imagine that TSCC also designates much of their "ministers'" pay as parsonage pay. You know they know every tax trick in the books.

Disgusting!

The "take everything you own and give it to the poor" is a Christian mandate not meant for the Q15 obviously. Their wealth stands out in stark contrast to lives of vowed poverty.

TSCC is like an MLM pyramid scheme and those rascals are sitting on top of the doggy pile. They know a good deal when they see one. Which is why they swear the Oath of Omerta silence when they become apostles never to reveal how much they really make and take in from the minions.

They don't want to piss off the tithing members who keep them where they're at in their ivory towers and Brooks Brothers suits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2019 06:21PM by Amyjo.

Isn't how much the GA's make and how their benefits compare to large corporations only part of the story?
My whole time in that church I was told that one of the great differences in the church was the lack of a paid ministry and how that made TSCC so much better than all the apostate religions of the world. If needed, a GA might receive a modest living allowance but that's all.
Turns out the unpaid ministry thing only applies to the peons.

Do they ever do any actual work or just show up for conferences and dedications?

While the unpaid peons do the daily grunt work of running local churches?

At their age its mostly doctors appointments and physical therapy sessions they're showing up for.

They've got the minions hoodwinked if they think they're actually doing any real work M-F because those geezers are way past retirement age and they're showing it. They may sit at desks some of the time and hold meetings. Give talks now and then as figure heads. Their ideas are the product of Group Think however, and they repeat the actions of their predecessors so there really isn't much left to chance.

"When you were an active Mormon, did you know that the Top 15 were given a "monthly living stipend"? In 2014, that "stipend" was 10K a month (120K a year) plus full medical/dental for their families, plus all traveling expenses."

Not defending them in the least but for people who have worked in a career field for most of their lives, $120k/yr is not Richy Rich money, but yes is good money and if you're "good" at it, then you will think you deserve that money, along w/the health benefits.

People who travel for their companies generally don't pay for the travel either, unless they are independent contractors...and probably are making much more than $120k/yr.

My guess is that along w/their "humble" stipend, they aren't paying for anything, housing, food, clothing, or vacations.

Yes, and many benefits are added to that.

Never thought old age could be so lucrative.

Where did the million bucks go ?

Seems super low for an executive position in a multi-billion dollar corporation.

That's because it is.

Those guys are paid what CEO's are paid for not-for-profits are they just don't tell the tithe payers where their money goes.

In today's dollars it would be realistically something like between $500,000 to $900,000 per year possibly more in salary alone. Not to mention those guys don't pay a dime of tithing from that income since it comes from tithes which makes little sense because it is their "firstfruits," so therefore let them tithe what comes to them.

If the church ever does become transparent in its accounting, that will be the day its books will sizzle!

VERY low.

I make about that and I'm only mid-level and in my 30s. I would expect a top position in a corporation like LDS inc. to pay at least a 7-figure salary with a hefty annual incentive.

It's not like these guys are just sitting around twiddling their thumbs either. They're always on. Traveling, speaking, etc.

For their age, and how hard they work, and the level of their position, $120k/year is a joke.

The top 15 in ANY OTHER PYRAMID SCHEME would be making at least 10x that.

What would Jesus get?

The fact that they are remunerated like any corporation shows that they aren't what they claim to be. In The Book of Mormon leaders "worked with their hands" for their support. Any Mormon leader enjoying anything at the hands of others is being supported on backs of their followers - just like many a Book of Mormon Anti-Christ accused them of correctly.

I don't know what the Q15 are paid. Neither do you, so stop pretending.

$120K per year sounds low, but if most other expenses are paid, that is certainly a living wage, even for "executives".

The tax rules for clergy is its own little byzantine corner of the tax code, and I don't pretend to know the ins and outs. I'm sure there are people at Kirton-McConkie that can quote entire subsections.

I do know that many of the perks that have been mentioned here are considered as taxable income by the IRS. Specifically, "forgiven" loans are income. Signing bonuses are income. Being given a stock portfolio is income at the time it is signed over to you. If it goes up in value after that, when you sell it, the increase is income (capital gain).

The only tax-free perk that I am aware of for clergy that does not apply to the general public is that housing can be provided by the church, and it is not taxable income to the clergy member. By way of comparison, the general public has a similar tax break. Under the normal rules of what constitutes income, the money an employer pays for health insurance should count as income to the employee. The only reason it does not is because health insurance was specifically exempted from being treated as income, and in fact, that health premium exemption is the largest single tax loophole (in total dollars exempted from taxation) in the IRS code.


In reality, this is all largely irrelevant. It matters not a bit if they make $10k a month or $100k. The BoM is a fraud in either case. JS was a con man and a lech in either case. LDS Inc is every bit as "not true" in the US where temples are not property taxed as it is in the UK where temples are taxed.

If LDS receives $6-7 billion in tithes, as has been reported here, even if the Q15 are paid a million or more per year, it is still petty cash compared to the total income of LDS Inc. Add the income from their for-profit investments and companies, That would make it even pettier petty cash.

While I don't know, I doubt the Q15 get anywhere near the kind of salaries that corporate CEOs have been giving themselves in recent decades. At some point they would have to spend it on something, and property records are public. Ownership can be disguised, but if you dig hard enough, it can be traced back to actual people. There are enough children and grandchildren of GAs who have left the fold, that if there were sumptuous residences and vacation properties for family use, word would get out, and the Michael Quinns of the world would track down evidence to confirm or disconfirm the rumors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2019 01:39PM by Brother Of Jerry.

O/T if the "missionaries" in Russia are actually just volunteers, how come the "mission" president isn't called the volunteers coordinator or some such title.

That doesn't sound like a lot, actually. If you said they were getting millions I'd say, "sounds about right."

That they're only getting $10k/month surprises me. Are you sure?