I found two recent threads on revelation fascinating [Thanks, SEcular Priest ("Progressive Revelation...") and Nightingale ("Russell--Mormon Moses...")] Lots of good posts, thanks everybodyot. Got me to thinking.

I understand that revelation regarding Church doctrine and practice can only come to the First Presidency, but revelation can come to priesthood holders for ward, family, or personal matters. Do I have that right?

But what about faithful members who don't hold the priesthood, especially women? Is it a valid Church concept that they can receive personal revelation regarding their own lives? How about, say, the president of the ward (or stake) Relief Society--can she pray for "direction" and receive divine guidance?

First, PLEASE, let's not get sidetracked into whether they are getting, or hearing, God's will for them. Nobody on this board thinks so. I'm interested in what active TBMs are likely to believe and practice, and whether there is distinct doctrinal teaching on the matter. (If so, please cite sources, if possible.) How was divine guidance received, or perceived?

I'd also be interested in hearing any personal experiences and anecdotes (yours, or people you know or knew) about women (and other non-priesthood holders) might have had.

Thanks!

Women were taught and believe that we're entitled to personal revelation for our lives and the lives of our loved ones. That was a Mormon teaching. What was also taught was that the priesthood leaders had authority over their wives and daughters in terms of 'revelation' as priesthood holders. If there wasn't a priesthood holder present in the home, or an unworthy priesthood holder, then the ward priesthood leader had authority to dictate to a woman in his boundaries what he believed she should do according to his whims, basically, which is utterly nonsense.

As an LDS woman I had many personal experiences of divine guidance and personal revelation for my life. It also helped guide me out of TSCC eventually, I thank God for that.

for their personal circumstances and for any area of responsibility that they had. That would definitely include Relief Society presidents, Sunday School teachers, etc...

Pretty much for any calling, as well as for family matters.

(My female relatives have always been very prayerful and have constantly sought "personal revelation" for things that they believe they are responsible for. My male relatives...not so much. As a result, my TBM mom has almost always been getting personal revelation as to the guidance that she is supposed to give to my TBM dad as to how he should magnify and exercise his priesthood.)

In other words, everyone is supposed to seek personal revelation and inspiration... BUT there is a hierarchy/order to things. If anyone ever gets personal revelation that contradicts revelation from a higher source (be that the First Presidency, a Stake President, a Bishop, a priesthood-holding head of a family or something else, depending on the circumstances, the higher ranking person's "revelation" takes priority.)

For example, a Relief Society president can get personal revelation about some matter that needs to be decided for the group she is in charge of and can act on that revelation UNLESS the Bishop steps in and says she can't. By further example, usually a ward RS Pres. can choose her own counselors, but the Bishop gets to review the choices and have the final say.
99% of the time the Bishop just rubber stamps the choices, but you can get a situation where a Bishop vetoes the RS President's choices.

Women tend to be more spiritual than men anyway. If anyone should rule a church it should be the women.

Just saying.

The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.

I don't agree with that.

Mormons will say women are more spiritual than men, or that men need the priesthood so they can become as spiritual as women, but that is just justification for the male monopoly on power.

I think it’s true as a general rule. Women evolved intuition as a survival mechanism for babies. Guys can just be grunts.

So intuition is spirituality?

I don't mind the definition; it's useful to think in those terms. But intuition is the process of intuiting things from observable facts, so you are effectively eliminating any supernatural element from "spirituality."

Is that something with which you are comfortable?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2019 02:46PM by Lot's Wife.

Early pioneer journals are full of examples of women exercising thier spiritual gifts.

My great great grandmother's is full of entries like Eliza Snow prophesied in tongues and Mother Sessions interpreted. Many great things were promised.

Mary Fielding Smith also recorded many "promptings" she had during her life. Some were mundane others were life saving.

As we near the 21st century we hear less and less of these stories.

women likely would have ended up with a much bigger official role in the management of things in the Church.

I suspect that things took an especially bad turn when Joseph Smith decided to justify his adultery by pretending that polygamy was a commandment from God. Once this became official, Joe, Briggy and the other polygamy enthusiasts probably wanted to do everything they could to keep the womenfolk in a position where they could not challenge the doctrines and revelations concerning polygamy. Briggy probably did more than Joe to formalize the lower status because he did more than Joe to make polygamy open and public and institutionalized.

Along these lines, the polygamy revelation in D&C 132 is particularly interesting. In it we see hints and clues that indicate that Emma had been pushing back against Joe's claims that God was ordering Joe to take multiple "wives". Apparently, Emma pulled a "turn about is fair play" and "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" number on Joe and in the heat of the moment (heat of a heated argument?) Joe had conceded to Emma that it was okay for her to play the field too. But that didn't sit well with Joe. He didn't like it at all. So when he got around to writing down his "revelation" from God, it expressly told Emma that "God" prohibited her from having any other partners. As it turned out, God only wanted it to go one way. Funny how God's will always matched up perfectly with what Joe preferred in any given situation.

Your characterization of BY is correct. Towards the end of his life, JS taught that women had the priesthood on their own and not through men. BY killed that.

Another important element of D&C is, as you state, that JS offered to let Emma have more than one husband. There are records that she wanted William Law.

I hasten to add that her favorite William Law was presumably not our William Law here on RfM. But they are both examples of fine men!

God has no confidence in women. This is based on a bet He placed (and lost) with a snake, shortly after the world He created (but actually bought at a Pawn Shop in Kolob.

The bet was that if God placed a man and a woman, naked in Missouri, the two would ignore every threat, even those accompanied with lightning.

As we all know, Eve was the first to let God down, simply by taking a bite from an apple.

God thereafter felt powerless, and resolved to never entrust any woman again. He cursed all women with a pain during childbirth that, had it been inflicted on men, would have rendered the earth unpopulated by human beings.

But women tolerate this injustice, and most others. Thus, God has little regard for all of His children who have long hair, dress silly, and who tend to talk too much.

Any member can receive personal revelation for their own life unless and until a church leader disagrees with it, at which point it falls somewhere between disobedience and apostasy, depending on whether the church leader needs more fiber in his diet, or not.