i think rusty and the mormons own this board because certain threads keep disappearing. they will let us complain but they really don't want us to know the truth. CONFESSIONS OF AN APOSTLE????????

Maybe just wait until tomorrow and then post it. There's no hurry

The posts that get pulled are almost always political, personal attacks or deliberately offensive.

Be nice and stay away from politics and your posts will normally be fine. No need to invoke conspiracies.

CZ (admin)

there was nothing political about confessions of an apostle so why was it pulled? it was just a nice little article after a lot of research.

Sounds like a bit of fluff and satire by a blogger who is anonymous for a reason. Not an apissle, me thinks. Just a smartass who is wagering that there will be some who will fall for a prank.

Were an apissle truly to go rogue, he wouldn't be blogging about it anonymously. He would out himself so he could be the whistleblower that would blow the lid off the teapot.

Someone who's capable of living a double life is a big fat liar. And who are you going to believe ? The lying eyes of a sociopath as blogger apissle ? More likely a blogger pretending to be one to fool others because the world is full of con artists, and the Internet is their playground. So apissles may be con artists themselves, but this dude or dudette are likely not the same person he is alluding to be.

The only thing different about the hidden post is the claim by its author that he is an apostle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2019 07:33PM by elderolddog.

I skimmed the post before it disappeared. If I had to read that much text thoroughly I would rather read War and Peace or Gone with the Wind. Read like another long winded talk from a G.A. for sure. Could be read in General Conference if he just left off the last part.

On the surface, it seemed sincere, well thought out, and way too much work for a joke. Still, leaves no reason to be believed. There is no point to it being here on RFM as anonymous. Serves no purpose other than to confess to being gutless. I would guess someone was fishing and thought we would all get really excited, and clamor around thinking this a dream come true--an exmo apostle! But alas, we have suspicious minds.

Fool me once . . . and all that.

I can see why the admin hid it.

I have read it a few times actually. I love the book. I never could get through War and Peace, though read Anna Karenina (spelling?). Excellent book.

My history teacher (wrestling coach) told me he couldn't believe anyone would read GWTW all the way through. I read it during his class. He didn't appreciate it. I did my homework for other classes in his class. It was so boring in there.

Anyway, one of my all time favorite books and also my daughter's. It was my dad's favorite movie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2019 10:30AM by cl2.

I've read it at least 30 times. I love GWTW.

My mother gave it to me to read one summer when I said I was bored. She figured it might take a week to get through. I read it straight through in two days. Lawn chair in the backyard soaking in the sun and reading. A perfect summer recipe.

I read War and Peace, but I had to take notes to remember who was who. It took me a chunk of time.

It's one of those books that I wish I had done more pre-study to prepare. I could have gotten even more out of it.

When I read War and Peace in high school I used the Cliff's Notes to help keep track of who was who. One of the only times I ever spent the money to buy them.

War and Peace was difficult to get through, but very interesting. I got through it faster than "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" though. That one I would have to put down for a few days, or a week, before I could pick it back up again.

As exmos, the hidden post contains nothing with which we are not already tune. I don't believe it is authentic.

The novelty is the claim an apostle wrote it. I think it was created as a lure to TBMs who are not likely to read something like the CES Letter because it's from the enemy, whereas a TBM might read this one because an "apostle" wrote it.

I thought at first that it may not be true, but let myself indulge in a little hope.

Eventually, someone will blow the whistle. But GA's are all older men who have too much progeny to round up into witness protection.

I support CZ and admire all the really smart regulars here too who will catch on to TBM tricks quick!!!

I think I know who owns YOU.

The Mormons made me an atheist

And you. And you.

Robert Duvall visited and I didn't even see him?

I am not a fan of censorship when adults are involved. CZ's comment was completely nonresponsive to the issue. Moderator Tevai pulled a post from view, announced that CZ had to okay it, but didn't mention on what grounds she hid it, and then CZ said nothing responsive to the issue at hand, in that the original post was not "...political, a personal attack or deliberately offensive." Or maybe we're not supposed to attack the Mormon church?

It's just a website wherein a person claiming to be an apostle says the church isn't true and then offers a second page with a list of sources that support his view.

I would like an explanation as to why RfM won't allow a discussion regarding the website and the claim. It's ON TOPIC! I'm sure the possibility of an apostle going rogue has been raised before and now that it may have happened, mommy and daddy won't let us see it?

I'm trying to be polite, but this isn't sitting right with me.

If someone comes here, claims he's prophet and then spins a yarn, readers will conclude that posts are spurious and can be disregarded. That matters. It makes it easier for doubting visitors to reject this place and hence serves the church's interests.

>>I am not a fan of censorship when adults are involved.

Feel free to start your own unmoderated board. I was on one once, and it was like the Wild West. It didn't last very long before everyone wandered away. But have at it.

You can get your money back at any time. Except donations, Mormon habits die hard.

Rocomop wrote:

> It's ON TOPIC!

Things can be on topic but not accord with the guidelines. Please reread them before getting too mad! :) :) :)

I didn’t read the topic but misrepresented posts or apologist tracts are against the guidelines whether or not they are on topic, as I understand it.

People, if someone who purports to be a salaried leader of LDS inc makes an inflammatory post, the board could be exposed to subpoenas from Kirton-McConkie to get what info admins have about the poster. They probably don't have anything more than an IP address, but LDS Inc could see if that matched any of their ip addresses, in particular, an apostle's IP address, and blow his cover.

Or, if it turned out to be not an apostle, there might be some sort of case for libel or something like that. The Church has very deep pockets to pursue lawsuits, and if they thought there was a chance they could sue RFM out of existence, I think they'd be happy to take it.

The board owner is more than entitled to look into what liability might be generated by allowing a purported post from an apostle to stay up on the board. He's the one taking the risk here, not you. As far as I am concerned, all you self-important, entitled, clueless snowflakes can take your whiny complaints and stick them where the sun don't shine. How dare you...

Pardon my undiplomatic language. It's late, I'm tired, and not in the mood to suffer fools gladly, and we seem to have a bumper crop of fools.

May I be a snowflake?

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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>could sue RFM out of existence...

Agreed.

I appreciate the board for what it is and what it does. I don’t think the mods should be criticized. Their house their rules. :)

There are many reasons why a post is killed.

The thing is that the moderators of any website have access to tools and techniques that ordinary members do not have.

What if an apparently harmless post is really from a known enemy of the site?

Better to kill it now rather than allow problems to develop in the future.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2019 06:14AM by matt.

Yeah, I just found the apissle's confession using a simple google search.

It definitely sounds like a fraud to me. If it were genuine, the bloke would already be out of the Q12. There isn't a religious bone in his body.

He's an imposter at a minimum. And a con artist at the worst. He claims to have gone from a Mormon apostle to nothing at all other than secular humanism in the course of his time as a member of the Q12.

He says he's going to leave TSCC, but lacks the ballz to do it now. My hunch is it's someone with too much time on his hands and is playing a practical joke because he wants to get back at TSCC he despises.

He has his own website for his blog set up to promote his "anonymous" letter as his confession. Note: the site makes mention it is NOT SECURE in the linkbar, so proceed at your own risk.

It is secure if you add an s to http.
https://
Also, why does a website that contains a letter need to be secured? What is the risk? Are the Mormon NSA in Utah tracking you?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2019 03:19PM by eagle.

It looks like the work of a computer hack was my point.

Not the work of a sincere anyone trying to break free from a cult.

Just another liar on the Internet playing a hoax.

The fact the site said it wasn't secure in the hyperlink, only gave sway to be cautious. You know, like we're taught when navigating the net.

As compared to Nigerian scam letters, the guy or maybe even a group, (who really knows who wrote it?) at least knows how to spell. But it isn't authentic.

The LDS church' legal department will be having a field day with this one tracking down the IP address, and then hauling someone's arse into court for one of its lawsuits.

It invokes TSCC as its point of origination. Impersonating one of the Q12 without a disclaimer that he isn't one. It's already a buzz feed over on the LDS sites. So the legal dept of church corp is already got its assignment on this one.

It wasn't from a Mormon apostle.

CZ with Trevi's help has that job.

Cheryl Wrote:
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> CZ with Trevi's help has that job.

Hear, hear!

It is definitely the kind of a hack site that if LDS org wanted to pursue it through legal channels, it has the resources to do that, it will be suing it in no time.

There is no disclaimer that I could see on the site that it is a satirical piece, like the Onion provides as a blog site.

If it is impersonating a Q12 member of TSCC, which is more likely than not, TSCC has legal grounds to bring charges.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2019 10:56AM by Amyjo.

Even fake, I hope it creates suspicion among the apostle ranks, and they all have to submit to polygraphs.

As has been speculated before, i'm sure at that level that there are all kinds of non disclosure agreements in place that would make it impossible for this to ever happen.

I'm guessing there are worse things hanging over their heads than non-disclosure agreements.

Yes. Like the invalidation of an entire life's work and meaning, the loss of family and friends and even spouses.

I can't conceive of any of the apostles as strong enough to surrender those assets for the mere truth.

Once they started down that path they just get in deeper and deeper and forgot to leave a trail of bread crumbs to find their way back. Or did Oaks vacuum up the bread crumbs by having "the goods" on each one of them. Blackmail? Why not? :) haha.

Isn't a non-disclosure awfully close to that--blackmail?

An NDA is what you use when you can't blackmail someone. You have to create a big cost for the person going public.

As you note, the apostles are so deeply committed that they already face massive penalties if they talk.

I suppose if one day one of the top 15 decided they couldn't take it anymore they could go the Pope Benedict route and just retire in a nice quiet place and be forgotten. Though there isn't a precedent (is there?) for emeritus status for the Q12 and FP I don't see why they wouldn't invoke it if they needed to for expediency.

Ah shucks, Kathleen, doncha know, those guys have the gift of discernment and can read each other's minds and know each other's thoughts. They even finish each others sentences. (jkz)

They are in such cohesion that they can't go to the bathroom without sh*tting in synchrony.

It's that Group Think they call Group Prayer, that when they decide something all of them agree 100% or it's a "no go."

It's like a collective brain where all individuality has been swallowed up into the whole. They cannot do nothing first without asking permission from the others, and having consent and agreement.

I don't call that wisdom, but that is how TSCC operates from the top down. And it is pretty damn scary IMO that those men cannot think for themselves. While millions of church members cling to their every word.

Does anyone here at RFM really need a an apostle's confession to figure out that the church is a fraud?

No, but it may help some of our TBM friends.

Yes. And from the pulpit in GC. Go big or go home!

It doesn’t help, Kathleen, if the letter is false and therefore falsifiable.

We win, ultimately, if we are more consistently truthful than the church. Truth is on our side.

No, a letter that was false certainly wouldn't help. That's why I had so hoped it were true.

One reason that I thought it COULD BE true is because before his death in 2017 from pancreatic cancer, Grant Palmer claimed that an apostle or GA had befriended him and chatted with Palmer many times that the church was false, but that he was unable to come clean with what he knew. Palmer protected this man's identity.

Palmer was a retired instructor from the Church Educational System and institute director, and author of "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins" (2002).

Palmer had been excommunicated because he refused to edit details in his book.

I got the sense that Palmer’s contact was a 70. Not that it matters.

I suspect that such a man would either keep quiet or go public. Sort of like Phillips or Mattson.

In any case Palmer’s keeping of the secret is further indication of his integrity. He was a fine man, like Phillips and Mattson.

Yes, I could see a 70 going public (we already have an example of that in Hans Mattson.) But a member of the Q15 -- no. First, I think the Q15 are too much in the bubble, too protected and isolated from the outside world. Second, I think they like their power, perks, and status too much to change. And third, I think they've all been thoroughly vetted to be church broke.

I think that is right. The seventies are on probationary status because they haven't fully proved themselves. The apostles have made so many ethical compromises that they need their Second Anointings.

It's a bit like the senior Catholics. The longer the time in leadership, the greater the knowledge and participation in immoral policies and conduct. The likelihood of resignation on principle, of whistleblowing, is higher in the junior ranks.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We win, ultimately, if we are more consistently
> truthful than the church. Truth is on our side.

Well said, Lottie.

If the Q12 sign a non-disclosure agreement there is more chance of them burning in hell before any will come forward and come clean with what they really know.

Besides, they have a nice gig. Most of them have been TBM lifers who bought into it since they were sucklings. Why would they want to rock the boat now at their late stage in life?