I think the church lawyers are the source of revelation in the modern church. If it looks like the church could get into legal trouble or become the target of political legislation, the prophet tends to have another revelation.

That's where ALL "revelations" come from.

And the sad part is that we can post this here for all to see, and the church leaders still act like they don't know that we know this. It's all just a big act on both sides. They have another revelation based on advice from the legal department, and the people bow their heads and say yes. Then they go do whatever the hell they want to do anyway.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> That's where ALL "revelations" come from.


Well, there are the "revelations" that put them in legal jeopardy to begin with.

The Prophet: I had a dream we should do such-and-such.

The Apostles: Yeah! That would be cool!

The legal team, a few years later: Um, about that last revelation...

That could very well be true. Maybe the leaders realized that in 15 years they were going to have quite a number of young people who would be adults from lgbt families, who felt really mad at mormondom for being excluded, or shunned. There would undoubtedly be lawsuits at that time, when these young people were grown and really pissed off.

In my view they've dodged a bullet. A bullet in 15 years but a bullet just the same.

And exactly what legal investigation was underway that they simply rolled over for with no challenge whatsoever? And what entity as pursuing this investigation?

This change was totally internal. They were bleeding too many members, especially in the under-40 group who tend to see homophobia as kind of bizarre. Dropping the three hour block and the various missionary changes were also totally internally motivated.

If coffee and tea get de-emphasized, that will be mostly externally motivated. Giving up coffee to join a religious social club is a bridge too far for many potential converts, though younger Mormons are apparently viewing the coffee/tea thing as silly as well.

If they are going through this awkward name change in preparation for de-emphasizing the BoM at some future date, it is because that book is irredeemably racist, a fact which would be noticed by any potential converts or LDS youth that actually bothered to read it. The amount of scientific information the book violates is kind of embarrassing too.

The Q15 have plenty of things to worry about. Except for sexual abuse cases, where their legal exposure is substantial, lawsuits are way down on their list of worries.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> And exactly what legal investigation was underway
> that they simply rolled over for with no challenge
> whatsoever? And what entity as pursuing this
> investigation?
>
> This change was totally internal. They were
> bleeding too many members, especially in the
> under-40 group who tend to see homophobia as kind
> of bizarre. Dropping the three hour block and the
> various missionary changes were also totally
> internally motivated.
>
> If coffee and tea get de-emphasized, that will be
> mostly externally motivated. Giving up coffee to
> join a religious social club is a bridge too far
> for many potential converts, though younger
> Mormons are apparently viewing the coffee/tea
> thing as silly as well.
>
> If they are going through this awkward name change
> in preparation for de-emphasizing the BoM at some
> future date, it is because that book is
> irredeemably racist, a fact which would be noticed
> by any potential converts or LDS youth that
> actually bothered to read it. The amount of
> scientific information the book violates is kind
> of embarrassing too.
>
> The Q15 have plenty of things to worry about.
> Except for sexual abuse cases, where their legal
> exposure is substantial, lawsuits are way down on
> their list of worries.

You made some great observations. I was joking about revelations coming from the legal department. Oh I think there is some truth to that but I think what you have mentioned is valid as well.

The church is ran by old people. Usually by the time the senior apostle becomes prophet he's got health problems and his mind isn't so sharp. Add in living in an LDS bubble for most his adult life. The world today changes fast and you can't hide things they way you used to and the church has to adapt without doing it so fast they blow a gasket.

I would imagine the quorum of the 15 are a mix of total zealots and more liberal Mormons. I think even agreeing on a strategy is problematic.

Anyways doing a 180 on a policy or revelation or whatever you want to call it makes the church leadership look like they have no clue and the church looks silly.

> makes the church
> leadership look like they have no clue and the
> church looks silly.

Gee, I wonder why anyone would get that impression. . .

I wonder if Chick-fil-A and airports will have law suits back and forth due to LGBT policy.


I presume religion is different since they (wink wink) aren't real corporations. The decision-making church leadership seems to be half legal and half PR driven.


Whether or not there could be any law threats looming (which I doubt as BoJ has explained), I'm glad social pressure is forcing the Mormons into a corner. Funny how God (the guy who is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow) can't seem to see these issues coming.


Meanwhile, what is religion doing to provide guidance about overpopulation, the environment, animal abuse, plastic and waste management and many other actual problems? Scriptures aren't relevant and they pick stupid stuff like controlling sex lives instead of actual problems. What a wasted opportunity and waste of time and effort they have spent on this gay thing.

IMO, I think "revelation" does come from their legal department. Every time it looks like TSCC is heading for trouble, all of a sudden, the profit has a revelation. I'm thinking of the 1978 "revelation" as well as this latest revelation for LGBT families. It's frustrating to me to see people rejoicing about these so called revelations because people either forget or haven't found out yet that TSCC is nothing but a business/cult. Who wants to be in the good graces of this organization?!

valkyriequeen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> IMO, I think "revelation" does come from their
> legal department. Every time it looks like TSCC is
> heading for trouble, all of a sudden, the profit
> has a revelation. I'm thinking of the 1978
> "revelation" as well as this latest revelation for
> LGBT families. It's frustrating to me to see
> people rejoicing about these so called revelations
> because people either forget or haven't found out
> yet that TSCC is nothing but a business/cult. Who
> wants to be in the good graces of this
> organization?!

We can call them "Oh Shit!" revelations. Issuing the manifesto on polygamy was another "Oh Shit!" revelation inspired by the US Government.

Also, we have no idea what lawsuits are currently in process, do we?

True that!

We can get a pretty good idea from suits on similar grounds against other religions.

Can you name one? I can't. There are suits against bakers and others for discrimination against LGBTQ people, but none that have made it noticeably far against religions. Due to the constitution, that dog won't hunt.

I think Rubicon and BOJ are both right. Either way, the deciding factor is still the Almighty Dollar. I learned 10 years ago that LDS Inc. has nothing to do with God. The Mormon God is just a scapegoat upon whom the Mormon place the blame. I knew this even before the Black issue, from being born a Mormon female, who can never have the priesthood. Come on--"Polygamy is God's New and Everlasting Covenant"? How can the Mormons put a successful spin on this? The Mormons can manipulate members into believing in a cult with a polygamous heaven and a polygamous God and a polygamous Christ (That's blasphemy)! The Mormons will be able to herd the sheeple around this current obstacle. How can anyone be a believing Mormon? Perhaps they all are oppressed sheeple Who are reacting to the threats of losing their families, their marriage, all their Mormon friends, their reputation, perhaps their livelihood, even their place in God's Heaven, if they dare to leave the cult. Their superstitious fears outweigh facts and reason. The Mormon cult considers this little, short-lived gay issue is nothing but a tiny glitch, that will be over with in a few weeks, and written out of history, like so many other glitches.

I agree with Brother of Jerry that the Mormon cult wants The Book of Mormon to gradually disappear into the background:

"If they are going through this awkward name change in preparation for de-emphasizing the BoM at some future date, it is because that book is irredeemably racist, a fact which would be noticed by any potential converts or LDS youth that actually bothered to read it. The amount of scientific information the book violates is kind of embarrassing too."

Exactly! Maybe there will be a new edition of the BOM, renamed, re-branded, all the anachronisms and errors removed, published in 50 languages by Deseret Book. Maybe it will be bound together with the Holy Bible, as a "Two-in-one". It will be purchased by all Mormons to give to their children, friends and relatives, and handed out personally by door-to-door "ministers" all over the world. (This is a "Global Religion", according to the Deseret News.) The re-distributing of the "inspired, according to God's revelations" new Another-Testament-of-Jesus Christ book will be at the members' personal expense, of course, with LDS, Inc. pocketing the sales profits. Wendy and Sheri will be active in editing.

The BOM seems to be causing more de-conversions than conversions. The cult has become more strict in discouraging questions and discussions about the scriptures, doctrines and church history, and now it is phasing out classes and lessons. It's just all about the temple stuff, paying tithing, serving the cult, policies and obedience, assigned talks on "the words of the prophets", supervised testimonies, conference, PR, expanding the Corporation; lies, cover-ups, threats, coercion.

(BTW, my Mormon friends and the ward never mention "The Pearl of Great Price", anymore.)

Sorry to tangent so far off topic.

I do hope this new policy is adhered to, enough to east the pain of gay Mormons, and reduce the suicides. I doubt that the Mormons will offer any special help, or quality programs for them.