https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdiqPupArsE

Anyone listen to the disturbing GC talk? Not a lot of compassion. He talks about how we are going to die and find ourselves alone searching for our families but won't find them anywhere. Only mormon temple people can progress after this life and be with their families. And if we haven't done the temple thing it's because we haven't put in the spiritual work, and we are lazy. That in the next life we are only going to have a meager roof over our heads where others live in mansions. Then there is the bit about his perfect daughter with 7 kids all temple married, etc.

My rebuttal is that:
A lot of us haven't found spouses, or have other complex issues. Or might be part of other churches, or something else entirely... God doesn't guide everyone's life's path to Mormon temples. But yet the only reason everyone is not as perfect in his view is because we are lazy. Nelson's god only loves his kind of folks.

Thoughts?

Absolutely you are correct. Extremely unsettling and disturbing....and many active LDS will be shaken by this. My fear is, they will somehow edit or change it for next months Ensign magazine.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2019 04:55AM by mythb4meat.

Always taught.

I'm surprised so many are surprised.

It always been a strange, illogical, obviously manipulative mess.

This is your brain. This is your brain on LDS. Any questions?

Single Mormons should be happy to know this doctrine came from a lying scumbag.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2019 05:30AM by babyloncansuckit.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
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> Single Mormons should be happy to know this doctrine came from a lying scumbag.

Yes, when I got to that sentence in my Gospel Principles book, I asked my SS teacher about it. I received back a long dissertation that maybe you could get to 'some' level but not quite the highest.

I was always blown away by the amount of research, reading and scholarship really smart people put into understanding these 'scripture' fairy-tales.

Hi Msa....yes you are right....but the real surprise is the "Prophet" saying this, and emphasizing these things in a conference talk. Very unusual....and is already seeing substantial pushback on social media.

And it's STILL done in secret ceremonies because Joseph Smith had to keep polygamy a secret.

Threats, fear-mongering, and insults unless you fork over 10% of your income and do what he says. In another life he would be a Mafioso.

Sorry, Rusty, but I don't buy it. Your vision of heaven sounds like hell to me. In my vision of the afterlife, my family and friends are waiting for me, along with all of the little animals that I've ever fed, cuddled, and loved. I like my vision a whole lot better than yours.

Yes, Summer. And this Conference message from Rusty is stating true Mormon beliefs, but is very surprising to me, being presented in this venue. There will be LOTS of discussion on this one!

summer Wrote:
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> Your vision of heaven sounds like hell to me. In my vision of the afterlife, my family and friends are waiting for me, along with all of the little animals...

Awww. Me too!!! I like your vision!

I am happy donating my former tithing to help homeless animals. :)

Don't forget that when you get to heaven you get back all the stuff you have ever lost includung your car keys and all those single socks.
Isn't religion wonderful ?

Well, the Mormon church has spent so much money building/maintaining temples they now have to guilt people into making use of them. All those new temples with empty parking lots. Must work on the fears of members to remind them of eternal separation from family unless they pay up and attend.

heartbroken Wrote:
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> remind them of eternal separation from family unless they pay up and attend.

See, to me, eternal separation would be the gift. :)

Dave,

The Youtube clip was funny, especially that he was holding a pizza box the entire time!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2019 11:08AM by mel.

You need to watch the entire movie to know the significance of the pizza boxes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQbQdoAhfoA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2019 12:23PM by Dave the Atheist.

"Only mormon temple people can progress after this life and be with their families."

Considering the church has been busy outreaching in Africa, where there are no, or few temples..and KNOWING that most will not be able to spend the money to make a temple trip, most of the new African converts will never get to Level 10 in mormon heaven

....and shows the lack of inspiration or revelation in this whole thing....

Well duh.

The God of Mormons is a pretentious, self-righteous, country club asshole

perky Wrote:
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> The God of Mormons is a pretentious, self-righteous, country club asshole

Yes!!!

Funny how they rush young people into temple marriages instead of encouraging young people to seek long courtships in order to experience different aspects of love and relationships (and yes I'm well aware of the lack of sexuality). The church doesn't care about compatibility. They just want people to jump in without looking. It's just like their other teachings that don't make sense that will somehow correct themselves in the future. A recipe for toxicity.

I am told that I had a long courtship of 3 years in terms of mormonism. I had church leaders putting pressure on me to get married. That's leaders for you. Always sticking their noses into the private matters of members. One member asked me if I was gay because I had already been back from my mission for 2 years and I was not married.

In Mormonism, 3 months is a long courtship.

It's so crazy to preach humility and be asking everyone to be in the image of Christ... And shoot for a mansion in heaven!! The cogdis of this always drove me up a wall.

Thankyou for the understanding friends on this board!

The level of the narrow mindedness and judgmentalism is staggering. And throughout the address he refers to us as "friends." Nelson was a lucky lucky man. He had a wonderful family, with 9 children. All successful. A numerous posterity. He had a prestigious job where everyone looked up to him all his life. His wife didn't walk out on him. He lived in a great neighborhood. Everywhere he went people esteemed him. He's the kind that would have had a lifetime of enjoyed extrinsic pleasure from doing mormonism.

But the world isn't so kind to others. Not everyone is treated like a king. Friends are hard to come by for many. I for one spent my first 34 years trying to do mormonism, but couldn't make it work, I just couldn't quite fit in or feel good about it. So I had to leave for my own sanity.

But he can't understand that. He can't understand people with problems. So he calls us "lazy."

What you have described in Nelson is the textbook example of someone blowing everyone else's candles out in order to make his own appear to be the brightest.

Nelson is a selfish selfish small minded little man. And he attracts his own kind. It's not just Nelson . . .

macaRomney Wrote:
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> Thankyou for the understanding friends on this board!

Yes, isn't it wonderful, and it is so helpful when people share here, I am so glad I found the Board, hearing others with the same, or worse, experiences than me!!!
>
> The level of the narrow mindedness and judgmentalism is staggering.

Yes, this reminds me of the saying that a liberal is just someone who's never been robbed at gunpoint. Nelson's life has been so easy, it seems, never truly struggling, nor knowing the terror of economic insecurity. It's nice if that's how your life goes and you can judge everyone from your high perch--not.


> Everywhere he went people esteemed him.

Yes, and that's the kind of special treatment, as a doctor, as a tall man, as a pillar of his church, probably someone who was handsome while younger, as you say, living well in nice neighborhoods--he doesn't even appreciate or acknowledge that not everyone gets, because he's always had it automatically.

>I for one spent my first 34 years trying to do mormonism, but couldn't make it work, I just couldn't quite fit in or feel good about it.

I am so sorry you spent so long inside, but very glad you are now out and contributing your insights and perceptive comments here!!!

If by lazy, he is referring to those of us wimmenfolk who will refuse to make delicious donuts for the menfolk, he's spot on! My husband said that he knows he will be delegated to janitor in the next life so he will be busy cleaning the celestial toilets while others will "feast" on donuts.

Nelson was just magnanimously saying that if we weren't so slothful and sinful we could be perfect like him!

There is no arrogance like Mormon arrogance.

Done & Done Wrote:
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> Nelson was just magnanimously saying....

Ha! Yes, it was nice to be reminded that anything I don't have or didn't accomplish was not because of anything outside my control, it was just my inherent laziness.

And maybe that I have never made donuts and don't know how to!

I think there are many who don’t want to spend eternity with their earthly families. I remember my TBMish niece crying that it would be hell to spend eternity with her family. This was 25 years ago. Unfortunately, she has never been able to make a break. She is unmarried at the age of 53 and acts like a assistant to all her married siblings and their children. The family looks like an Ensign cover, but like all myths, there is lots of dysfunction and vicious behavior.

Nothing like delusions of grandeur masquerading as a religion to benefit all humanity to create fallacious humility.

Even in these delusions there are other degrees of glory for other folks and to put them down to build yourself up is just what God wants his one true mouthpiece on the earth to do.

The day I realized they are all a bunch of assholes is when I got the letter back from Packer berating me for writing to him. I was told that I could by a bishop who had read "to the one." I sent him a heartfelt letter. I had been suicidal for over a year AND I MEAN DAILY, BY THE MINUTE, and I got the worst letter of my life in return. I burned the damn thing. I sure wish I had it now. My dad said he would have taken out a full page ad in the SLT to publish it.

Compassion, caring, love. Did I really experience any of that from leaders of the lds church? No. My "good" friend who I had worked with and known for years told me it was my fault my gay ex cheated on me as I obviously didn't give him enough sex to keep him from cheating. As I've said many times, "So how much straight sex does a gay man need in order to not cheat?" He didn't even ask how much sex we had, it was obviously just not enough.

That is how leaders have always treated me.

I just realized the other day that my relationship with my boyfriend is the only one that the leaders haven't stuck their noses into and I don't have to discuss sex with any old voyeur in this relationship.

Nelson came up with the policy on children of gays. I still haven't heard if they mentioned it in conference--the change they made last week. Leaders told me to marry someone gay and all would be well and then they said my kids are second class.

I will have PTSD triggers from things like my cousin's husband being called as a mission president (not like I wanted a MP for a husband as I didn't), but she is a bitch and always has been and I'm like, "What did I do wrong? I lived it the best I knew how."

Just remember this--my therapist, who I think is the most brilliant man I know--said that both he and I tested mormonism to its very limits and it failed us. Whatever there is to come, whether there is an afterlife or not, I worry a hell of a lot less about it now than I did as a mormon. I will be with those I love (I tend to HOPE there is an afterlife). AND WHY would I want what mormonism promises? It sounds more like hell to me. Nelson is an ass. Why would a loving God choose an ass like him to lead his one and only true religion? I wish he'd just die. He and Wendy are on a power trip.

cl2 (not logged in) cussing Wrote:
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> The day I realized they are all a bunch of assholes is when I got the letter back from Packer berating me for writing to him.

I wonder if writing nasty, nasty letters is a Moron thing. I got one that was unbelievable. I could not believe someone was writing me in such a vicous, passive-aggressive, self-righteous way, and also making up lies.

I am sorry you burned it also because I would have liked to compare yours to mine!

With mine, I brought it to work and read it aloud and amazingly enough, it became funny and ridiculous then.

I wish you well on your healing journey, CL. And also I hope you get a more suitable job than cashier soon, since I think you are an introvert and those jobs, dealing with the public all day, are more suited to extroverts. Just my 2 cents!

:)

One thing I never grasped...is their belief that you have to have your temple recommend at the moment you die, to get into the CK? What about people who paid for a while, then didn't-- will his previous years of paying and being temple-worthy count for anything?

What if your parents pay your tithing so you can get a recommend. Does that count? What if you die the instant before you sign a check for that month's tithing, so you have effectively NOT paid your tithing that month, do you still get in?

And you're supposed to be married to get in, right? What if you WERE married, but now divorced? Does that count? What if your marriage was annulled? What if your wife wasn't temple worthy after the divorce? Will the ex still be waiting up there to harangue you?

It just seems like (not that I ever did any of the temple stuff) for a holy directive there are a lot of "devil in the details" to be worked out!

So my dad, who had really bad knees (and a million other things wrong with him) realized the last week of December that he hadn't paid the last payment of tithing nor gone to tithing settlement that year and he chased the bishop down at the stake center to talk to him about getting that taken care of. The bishop said he'd put it on the next year's reports as the reports had already been submitted. My dad insisted that it be done as my mother would never forgive him for forgetting. (My dad was not all that active, he was more of a believer at the end than any other time.)

So my dad was telling me about it and I told him, "Wouldn't God understand?" And he said, "You're right."

I doubt my parents had TRs when they died as they would not have been able to go to the temple in the last 10 years or more of their lives, let alone the fact my dad didn't go much at all. It wasn't a big deal back when they grew up. You got married there. That was it. So since my parents didn't have their TRs, they didn't pass muster? Oh, my dad would get a good laugh over that one. So would my mother.

My grandparents were both deaf (mother's parents) and my mother told me they were too poor to pay tithing. They had a farm. They married during the depression. They were allowed to attend the temple without paying tithing.

cl2 (not logged in) Wrote:
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> ....he chased the bishop down at the stake center to talk to him

Heartbreaking.

> They married during the depression. They were allowed to attend the temple without paying tithing.

I wonder if that would happen today. I kind of doubt if there is any compassion left for that.

He was heartbroken as it was over losing my mother. He was so sick himself and he should have died long before she did, but he was still living at home and driving his truck. He'd limp out to his truck and drive to his farm once a day and just sit there in his truck.

My dad was a giant of a man in more ways than 6 foot 3 and BIG. They called him Kong where he taught high school. He was the strongest man I'll ever know and when he died, we felt that strength leave our lives.

He died 2 months after my mother did.

Yes, it is very disturbing!

Yes, the Mormons have always taught this.

This is what my little children were taught in Primary, along with "burning in the Second Coming." It caused them anxiety and nightmares. Luckily, they talked to me about it, and I was able to reassure them.

Why wait for Hell? Teach the kids now, frighten and bully them into obedience. I regret that I still forced my little ones to attend that awful cult, until the Mormon abuse became physical. My kids had a hard time telling me about that, because they were warned to keep quiet, and were threatened, blamed, and shamed. My children have always been good kids, and they did nothing worse than be tardy for meetings. I investigated, and discovered that most of the children in our ward had been spanked, shoved, kicked, and hit by adult Mormon leaders and teachers. These fathers beat their own children. The Mormon cult has no respect for the rights of human beings. They can lie to your face, without blinking an eye.

Remember, that Nelson is the man who does not believe in unconditional love! I still can't understand how the Mormons believe this man to be a Prophet of God, and a Christian, when he does not believe in Christ-like love.

Mormons coming right out and saying that unconditional love is "anti-Christ" (Nelson's words) is something recent, in this decade. I have always felt that there was no Love in the Mormon cult, but now the Nelsonites have stopped pretending to be loving, kind, and nurturing. No welfare. No activities and pageants. No fun. No talking in the hallways or foyers. No love. No true friendship. No questions. No Heaven for most. If a Mormon is perfect, they can go to that boring, exclusive, POLYGAMOUS heaven, ruled by Mormon scumbags, with JS at the right hand of Christ, judging everyone.

Heaven to a Mormons is a mansion that looks like a temple, windowless so they don't have to witness the suffering of the souls with the "meager roofs", and locked-down like the temples, so these lesser souls can't come in and visit them. The white and delightsome Mormon men will each have many wives, according to their worthiness. Nelson already has two. Other prophets had many more. Yes, there is competition in the Mormon Celestial Kingdom, and wealth, and power, and all the things Mormon men crave. It's a historical fact that JS had two slaves sealed to him as servants for the hereafter.

It's all the "ministering angels" and Telestial beings that will be helping, giving Love to others, playing with the lambs and lions, wearing sandals and following the teachings of Jesus in the hereafter.

It's sad to see people duped into paying 10% of their income for life for--a fictional fraud.

JS, the polygamous prophets, Nelson, and the male Mormon leaders are selling a heaven that most people would not want to buy into! Moreover, they are using their power to create this hierarchy and lifestyle RIGHT NOW, on Earth. And you and I and the gays and the Africans and 99.9% of the populations are not going to be included!

(Along those lines, how can less than 1% of the population "shun" the other 99.9%? The Mormons are shunning themselves away from the rest of the world. That world is ours, now that we have left the cult.)

Nelson has said too much. The Mormon elitism and snobbery is no longer a secret.

I agree that we might see a Ronald Poelman style do-over, with Nelson re-taped at the podium, in front of another "salad bar", with a track of an audience shuffling and coughing. Yes, it will be interesting to read the spin The Deseret News and Ensign put on this--or, most likely, as with the LGBTQ issue, the dead silence!

Nelson is losing his "social filter", which happens with a lot of old people.

End of rant. (Anger makes me lose my social filter)

What a horror of a church that uses fear of the unknown to make the last moments of a person's life a legalistic battle requiring meticulously executed contracts to find peace in death.

I'm glad that when my father died we made no mention of whether or not we passed all the tests required by a cult religion to see each other again. We just held hands, comforted each other and spoke of nothing but love for one another.

If Jesus really demands perfectly made and kept covenants before he'll consider letting my family and me into his inner sanctum than I'd rather try the peace and solitude of outer darkness.

Pooped Wrote:

> We just held hands, comforted each other and spoke of nothing but love for one another.

Nice, that's the way it should be.
>
> If Jesus really demands perfectly made and kept covenants...

Yeah, and that was another thing. I wasn't told till AFTER my baptism that I was supposed to make covenants. I never did understand what they were, or supposed to be. So theoretically, I could have paid and gone to temple and worn garments but probably still would have been barred since I had forgotten my covenants.

Can't start the car without the keys, right? I was damned from the moment of my (insufficiently-covenanted) baptism, I guess!

It’s another big shelf item waiting to fall. They are stretching credulity to the point that only the most credulous will believe them. But basically, this behavior is downright abusive and manipulative. That’s the kind of relationship you leave.

Don't forget gays are still excluded. No temple, no family, no CK.

shakinthedust Wrote:
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> Don't forget gays are still excluded. No temple, no family, no CK.

Like a party where it is all married people with their kids, talking about their kids, awful!

Without the singles or gays or possibly the divorced, CK will be a boring place!!!

Single are in the CK. You need to read up on it. And hanging out "married with children" isn't so bad if you are in that condition.

OMG, Shakinthedust, how did I let that slip past me?

Nelson, in his Mormon-speak, convoluted, back-stabbing speech, totally answered everyone's questions about the gays!

Even if LGBTQ's are allowed in the temple, there would still be no temple marriage, no temple-sealed family. This would disQUALIFY them from the CK.

I wonder if the press will pick up on Nelson's message.

Thank you, macaRomney for posting this. I don't want to watch GC to get the essentials.

Russell is lying, though, yes? He quotes 'the Savior' at 10:33 or so but I'm not aware of verses from Jesus saying that stuff? Maybe I don't know. He rightly claims the Savior advises all to follow him into the waters of baptism. Okay, fair enough.

But Nelson goes on to say, '...and, in time, to make additional covenants with God *in the temple*'. He emphasized that part. '...to receive and be faithful to those essential further ordinances.'

Where is that quoted from Jesus in BoM or even a Bible?

Of course, he goes on to claim he understands why God weeps, he weeps, too, for those who decline the savior's invitation, 'Come, follow me'.

LMAO at Nelson's use of, 'Wonderful, QUALIFIED family members'! Ha ha

But are you QUALIFIED?

What an ass.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2019 12:18PM by carameldreams.

carameldreams Wrote:
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> LMAO at Nelson's use of, 'Wonderful, QUALIFIED family members'! Ha ha
>
> But are you QUALIFIED?

I would prefer to be quantified rather than qualified. :)

This thread highlightes an issue that I hadn't considered so much until just now. The part of Mormonism that hurts me the most still now is all about injustices of the past, from a time when I actually believed in that crap, and then immediately after I left. Some changes and things happening in the church after that time are more amusements, that validate my feelings about past events, but not that I really care about the words of modern church leaders and what they say, now that I am comfortably out and safe from their abuses.

It is sad that these church leaders are still capable of inflicting new wounds on many people here on this board. It is clear that this is what they are doing, from the emotionally charged posts in this thread. I asked myself "why did these people even watch Nelson's speech to begin with?". I am not judging anyone here. Somehow I keep at least coming back for more on this board, even more then twenty-five years after my resignation. If it's worth anything to anyone here, maybe it would help to draw your line in the sand about where you resigned, and then work on working more on the issues that happened before that time. For those who haven't resigned yet, now might be a good time to resign. For those who are still trapped in to Mormonism because of family and other expectations, I can only imagine how difficult that must be. If nothing else, try to not let these current events cause anymore damage than is absolutely necessary. None of what they say is relevant other than to prove what fools they are.

Great points, azsteve. Thank you. It is our one life. For all we know anyway.

Thanks again.

Thank you, azsteve. Your words calmed me down.

I'm safe from the Mormon lies, and my life is great, and that's a relief. My family is still intact, for now.

I'm here because Mormonism still threatens my family, and that frightens me. I need to know the enemy. I need to know what the cult is teaching my TBM son-in-law and my grandchildren. My TBM daughter tells me she's an atheist, but she will obey her liberal-Mormon husband and her powerful TBM in-laws, to keep her own family together. My grandchild is being baptized soon, and I'm way too sensitive about all this. There's nothing I can do but--Just.Breathe.

Why would God need a mansion? Especially when it's furnished like a temple celestial room.

Gods don't sleep, so they don't need a bedroom. (And they can make their babies wherever they want; they're gods, they run the place.) Why would they need a kitchen? Does Mrs. God #82 need to put a roast in the oven for 2 hours at 350° while Mrs. God #35 dices the onions? How about a bathroom? Give me a break.

Mansions are for worldly bragging rights. Any god, real or false, who needs to have an ostentatious mansion is an insecure, puny god. "Look at me! My mansion is bigger than yours! Ha ha!" No wonder mormons want to be that kind of god.

So stupid.

Seriously Mr. Nelson?? Prophets and Disciples have made the same covenants since the world was created? So did you come up with that one in a wet dream also? Because it's a lie. There is absolutely ZERO evidence that anything associated with the mormon temple was ever part of anyone's religion before JS had to come up with a cover for his inability to keep his pecker in his pants.

And even if it was all so important, you seriously want us to believe that God would keep changing it depending on your market research? These good people you talk about who "haven't done the work," probably have done more work to research God's word and the history of your cult than you have in your 150 or however many years, you've been alive.

Your talk is EASILY translated from Mormonese into English. So here is the translation for anyone who might not speak your language: "Give us your money. If you don't give us enough money to come to our clubhouse, you will lose your family. Be scared, be very scared. Scare your families, scare your children, but by damn, give us more money!!! Money money money!!! We won't let you in without that money. It's ten percent or kiss those kiddies goodbye. Do you want that? No. So pull out your checkbooks. God doesn't care if you're a good person, if your money doesn't back it up. Too many people think they need a better reason to give us the money that they really need for their families. They want backup. They want us to explain our sordid history. They want me to say I talk with God when I only have geriatric dreams. But that's enough. It's enough for me to know that MORMON GOD WANTS YOUR MONEY!!!!! There! If you're not scared, tune in next October and have your money ready, cause I'm REALLY gonna scare you then."

How'd I do? I know it might not be what Babble would give you, but I can translate well enough to get pretty exact.

Anything about Honesty or Kindness spoken at this GC?



let.me.guess.

GNPE Wrote:
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> Anything about Honesty or Kindness spoken at this
> GC?
>
>
>
> let.me.guess.

Of course not.

The problem with Nelson is that he doesn't give people hope and fill them with love. He talks about covenants and obedience. He threatens unhappiness. His talk would have depressed me if I were still TBM.

This is the kind of talk the leaders should give.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqaYn7W7IOg

That film clip is from the movie, Chocolat.

I can't recall a conference talk that touched me more than that scene from Chocolat.

"God doesn't guide everyone's life's path to Mormon temples."

Good line.

I say that about other fundamentalist religions too where conformity is next to godliness. That errant thought alone is cause for a lot of the stress, anxiety, judgement and shunning that goes on.

Mormonism is so very anxiety-inducing.

Life-altering. And not in a good way.

Because everyone else has done such a good job of picking apart the content of the speech I'd like to say something about the visuals.

I'd like to know who got to set up that display behind the podium. I've never seen such an incongruous arrangement of vegetal matter and I find it to be most aesthetically displeasing. It looks as though the arranger didn't know whether they were supposed to be doing a lovely floral arrangement or making vegetable stock.

No florist worth their salt would place a lovely hydrangea next to a succulent...and that's just the beginning.

Between the demonesque look of Monson's face and the weird display I found that watching this gave me a good case of agita.

notmo