From where do these "General Authorities" get their authority?

I'm talking about the "priesthood keys" and such that they point to as the reason why everybody in the world should listen to them as though they are speaking God's own words to the world.

From what I was taught and have understood, none of these modern "prophets" and "apostles" ever met Jesus. Jesus never appeared to any of them and did some kind of fancy Jesus thing for directly conferring authority on any of them or for appointing any of them as his mouthpieces.

Nope. Jezuz be alwayz zomewherz elze.

It goes like this:

The current prophet claims to have the ultimate, super-duper, top-prophet-guy authority BECAUSE some other guy who claimed to have the authority to give him that authority...gave him that authority.

The other guy claimed to have the authority to give that authority BECAUSE another other guy who claimed to have that authority...gave that authority to the first-mentioned other guy.

And the "another other guy" who gave the authority to the first-mentioned other guy, who subsequently gave the authority to the current prophet? Where did the "another other guy" get his authority from? Well, it turns out that he claimed to have the authority to do what he did authority wise BECAUSE "another another other guy" gave him that authority........{{If you want to put it all in perspective, you need to realize that this has to keep going for a long time...until we'll be talking about another another another another another other guy who gave the authority to the another another another another other guy who came after him, etc..}}

So I'll dispense with writing out the whole "chain of authority".

Basically all that anyone needs to understand is that it's just a bunch of other guys giving authority to other guys.

You don't really see any evidence of Jesus directly being involved at any stage with regard to giving HIS authority to any of these other guys.

The best that Mormonism has to offer up in that regard is when you get to the part where Joseph Smith (a convicted con artist (treasure-hunt/glass-looking scam) and notorious adulterer and financial swindler) tells a story about how he met the ghosts or resurrected bodies of Peter, James and John in the woods...and they gave Jesus's authority to him right there in the woods where he met them. Jesus was apparently still too busy to get involved.

So now you know WHY it's so important to heed every word that comes out of the mouth of a retired physician named Russell Nelson.

Thank you, Walls, clear and concise.

Jezuz. Heh.

can be summarized in one sentence:

"It's just a bunch of regular guys giving authority to other guys to speak and act on behalf of some apparently important guy whom none of them have ever met or had any direct dealings with."

But I think it helps put things in perspective to see how many of these regular other guys who have never met Jezuz have been running around over the past 200 years pretending that they can give authority to other guys to speak and act on behalf of Jezuz. It's a bit mind-boggling when you look at it all for what it really is.

But I guess if you're willing to go to the trouble of rubbing some olive oil in some other guys hair before palming his head, you should be taken seriously when you then pronounce that the guy whose head has been properly oiled up and palmed now has the authority to speak and act for Jezuz.

You will respect their authoritah.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 04:06AM by babyloncansuckit.

According to the Book of Mormon the original 12 apostles will judge the whole earth. All other apostles are subject to them.

The original 12 nephite apostles will judge the people from the book of mormon and in turn be judged by Peter James and John etc.

So Joseph who will judge this dispensation had to be ordained by Peter etc to fall in line with the whole scheme.

As for seeing Christ we had Joseph, Sidney Rigdon, Oliver Cowdrey and Lorenzo Snow with claims.

Snow in particular said his visitation was in response to whether he should accept being church president. He felt he should be passed over due to his advanced age and poor health.

The Jaredites supposedly spent months floating around in barges that were "tight like unto a dish" and that would flip upside down and right side up, while also containing numerous animals and animal dung and pee and such.

According to the Book of Mormon, Lehi's family multiplied into a population of millions within just a couple hundred years.

According to the Book of Mormon, the Nephites had steel swords and wheeled chariots and horses.

According to the Book of Mormon, the Jesus and Heavenly Father were not separate personages. But then in a later edition of the Book of Mormon, they were.

According to the Book of Mormon......Well, I don't put much stock in things said by the Book of Mormon.

Yes, I know that Joseph and his buddies claimed that they saw Jezuz. But there is no story about Jezuz directly giving them the priesthood authority that the current leaders claim to derive all their authority from.

----> "The original 12 nephite apostles will judge the people from the book of mormon and in turn be judged by Peter James and John etc.

----> "So Joseph who will judge this dispensation had to be ordained by Peter etc to fall in line with the whole scheme."

That's all very nice and good. But remember this is from the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon came from Joseph Smith. Joseph Smith is the same guy whose word we have to rely on concerning whether he really met Pete, Jim and Jack in the woods and got the "real authority" juice from them. So you essentially have to rely on the same dubious source for both claims. You can't use a claim made in Joseph Smith's fictional Book of Mormon to support another claim made by Joseph Smith.

Let's boil it down a bit further.

According to Joseph Smith, he got authorized to act and speak on Jesus's behalf when he met Pete, Jim and Jack in the woods and they laid their hands on his head and pronounced that he was now authorized and had the priesthood. And according to something that Joseph Smith wrote in a book, this made sense because, according to what Joseph Smith wrote, Pete, Jim and Jack were the right guys to get the priesthood from. Jesus didn't need to be involved.

Circular like a merry-go-round. Nice and neat and spinning with dizzying speed.

My point is that it's still just a bunch of guys at present claiming that they got the priesthood from other guys who got it from other guys and Jesus was not involved at any point in giving HIS authority to any of them...even when you get back to the time of the founding fraudsters: Joseph, Sidney and Ollie, et al. Even though some of them claimed to have Jesus visions, they don't claim that Jesus directly gave them the priesthood.

Now if Pete, Jim and Jack really did appear to Joe and stuck their hands on his head and pronounced him duly priesthoodized, that would be impressive. Still odd that Jesus wouldn't bother doing something like that himself. Nobody can really explain the "dispensation" nonsense at any level deeper than the bald assertion of it. Why would "this dispensation" need to be judged by Joseph? And why would that mean that Joe had to be ordained by Pete and friends? There is no answer even to the first level of why questions, right?

What's even more bizarre is that once they started pretending to give Jesus's authority to other guys by way of rubbing oil in their hair and palming their heads, it doesn't seem like it really mattered who was getting it. By the Church's own admission, the second guy to be authorized as top prophet guy was a guy who worshiped a false god (Adam/Michael) his whole life and, as a result, was not worshiping the correct god. So, theoretically, you could also give Jesus's top-prophet-guy and top-mouthpiece-guy authority to someone who mistakenly thought that Pee Wee Herman was god and it wouldn't matter.

authority is a complex word for me. Catholic priests supposedly have authority and even brag that protestants call them in to perform exorcisms, which might be true. Then there is the authority of governments and patriotism and our elected leaders, bless their hearts. And of course authority of bureaucrats and teachers, who have the lowest authority. And many don't respect them at all!

But in matters of religion a pastor or prophet should speak as though he has authority. Men like Billy Graham made a powerful impact, and were influential in changing the tone of the whole nation (making it more wholesome) during the 80's. It was a complete shift from the turbulent 60's and troubled 70's. Where we as a nation lost our way.

What's missing in mormonism is that they don't speak like what they have to say is important they don't even try to be charismatic. It's so academic (yet without the vetted research backing it). So monotone. It's so differential to older men to the priesthood. So dry. Which likely stems from men getting promoted not for being revolutionary or charismatic but for being nice.

But this is how “the authority to act in the name of God” actually works. It’s all belief. The Mormons have a point of not letting the facts interfere with their beliefs. Nice trick if you can pull it off.

Didn't they use to refer to this "authority" as "having the keys?" When I first signed up in the 80s, there was a lot of yapping about the importance of holding the keys (of the priesthood, not to the family vehicle.)

I guess it adds to the mystique and mystery.

Keys are ordinarily tangible, real objects, so if the Mormon leaders talk about "giving the keys" or "conferring keys" it psychologically works at a subliminal level to make people think/feel that there's some real substance being passed from one guy to another guy, when in fact there is nothing of substance being passed from one guy to another guy.

And when some guy claims that he has the "keys of [fill in the blank]", it automatically makes people feel like he's really in possession of some special thing that makes him different from the people who "don't have the keys."

In reality, it's just words and hot air. A nothing burger minus the buns.

Spencer W. Kimball, Gordon B. Hinckley and N. Eldon Tanner supposedly all had the "keys of discernment" (i.e. the power and authority to call down special powers of inspiration from heaven to make it possible for them to easily spot and reveal liars and deceivers and confound all manner of deception. And since they were leaders at the very highest echelon of the church hierarchy, their "keys" were presumably the best and most powerful "keys" that anyone could have.

But, as it turned out, their "keys of discernment" were not a match for a psychopath named Mark Hoffman who had a talent for making fake historical documents. Even trained lawyer Dallin Oaks, with his combination of legal-eagle analytical skills AND the keys of discernment, was so easily deceived by Hoffman that he was "inspired" to write a defensive/apologetic essay on the topic of the Salamander Letter (which turned out to be one of Hoffman's fake documents). I can only imagine how embarrassed Oaks must have felt when it came out that the Salamander Letter was a fake and Oaks had made a fool out of himself by twisting logic and reason into intricate pretzel shapes in a transparent attempt to make Mormons think that Salamanders were symbolically important and that the story of Joseph Smith and the Salamander was really a deep and richly symbolic story that, like the temple lunacy, would (after the manner of the Emperor's New Clothes) be appreciated by worthy and virtuous people and would be mocked by evil, filthy people. (He didn't necessarily use exactly those words in his essay, but the implications were all there.)

So much for "keys". While we're on the topic of imaginary objects, can I interest you in a time-share condominium with an excellent view located in the Celestial Kingdom, which is itself located in a different dimension?

I was thinking of the stupid analogy that missionaries used to share with investigators to PROVE that their church membership or even baptism was invalid. I'll never forget the first time that I heard the crazy anecdotal example. I think I even snorted to keep from laughing because it sounded so ridiculous (and I got dirty looks from the other 3 missionaries that were dead serious about ice cream trucks).

So the church was fine with missionaries using an ice cream truck story to PROVE their priesthood authority.

-So if you were driving down the street and an ice cream truck came up behind you and turned on its lights with music, would you pull over and stop?

person- No. That would be silly.
(One time a man said. "Sure man. I like ice cream a lot. Why wouldn't I want some, especially in Texas." It screwed up our mind game :D)

-You wouldn't pull over because the ice cream truck doesn't have authority to enforce traffic laws.

So then you continued on about how how God wants people to do things for him with his authority and then you explained how only crazy Joe Smith received the authority [which the church can't pinpoint the exact day or place except that it was near a river or canal]. And then you would tell these people that their church never had authority to baptize.

And if people really were paying attention to your story, you would be walking to the door at this point. Who wants a couple of whippersnappers know-it-alls telling people in their homes that their church has as much authority as the Good Humor ice cream man?

God gave super powers to a sex maniac?

I worked a summer job at a good humor plant in Detroit. One shift put some rum in the popsicle system and got distracted and missed them as they went into packaging. About 30 rum laden popsicles went out to unsuspecting children.

It requires a meeting incantation of "Oh-what-a-goose-I-am," then the magic priesthood Dumbo feather is placed on their head. Presto, they believe have power!

At least this helps explain why Russel M's message seems to be so whacky. It's kind of like the game Gossip where a group sits in a circle and a message is whispered from ear to ear. By the time the message gets around to the end of the circle it's jumbled and confused. Russ is at that end!

So true. But I have seen into the future and it is all going to change. When Russ dies, whoever Wendy decides should get the Holy Note Pad and Kolob-Lighted Pen will be the next in line to be "Authoritative."

God now works through BIC and Post-It. So much easier this way.


Seriously. Religion is all hearsay.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So true. But I have seen into the future

Glad someone here has!

>Holy Note Pad

Hee hee hee!

GAs only have authority if folks give it to them. I once gave them all, now none.

Yeah, for many years, I raised my hand to sustain the top 15 as “prophets, seers, and revelators.” It’s not god given authority, but as long as people are willing to give them authority, they’ll have authority.

The church is perfect. It’s just the members who aren’t.

Bwahahahahahaha.

"Founding Fraudsters" heh heh heh.

I'm with the guy in Texas, heck yes pulling over for an ice cream truck. Yum, ice cream!!!

:)

We're alone in the universe - let that sink in and then you have answers to most questions about organized religion and life in general. With this in mind a GA is a nothing burger, just a dude that played the game and met the right people to get where he is. Corporate America at its finest. I have to wonder what these frauds think when they are called as GA and find they are still the EXACT same person with the EXACT same life experiences they had BEFORE the call. Indeed, these GA's and most all religious leaders are a damn bunch of FRAUDS!

Well stated.

I think they become even worse because of their 2nd annointing where they can do no wrong in the church.

Authority depends upon the entity which gave it to you, being prepared to back you up to enforce that authority.

So ultimately a democratically elected leaders authority comes from the voters, and a leader who is not democratically elected persists as long as the Army, Police and others will enforce his edicts.

The authority of the GA's comes from the LDS community, and the outcomes of not respecting their authority, viz rejection in religious, social, work and other areas, shows their authority is does not come from God.

When you "sustain" a GA as a prophet, seer and revelator, rather than giving authority, perhaps it simply means you are approving to sustain him in the temporal sense. (money, stipend,accommodation etc)

outin76

I don't know if the signators to the announcement really think this way or are just trying to kiss up to Rusty and the gang:

An announcement letter of a June 09, 2019 event was sent out dated April 10, to Stake, Mission and Temple authorities in and around Orlando, FL, over the signatures of the three men who constitute the North America Southeast Area Presidency. (???)

Here's the part that gets me:

"In order to prepare spiritually for this memorable and historic event with the Lord’s Prophet, we encourage you to

1)Feast daily on the words of the Christ in the Book of Mormon;

2)Attend the temple on behalf of one of your deceased ancestors; and

3)Express your gratitude to our Heavenly Father for this remarkable opportunity in your personal and family prayers."


So these guys, either sincerely or kissing-uppily, want all the members to thank ghawd in their personal and family prayers for the "remarkable opportunity" to sit in a big arena (the Amway center is where the Orlando Magic play) and gaze upon the prophet and listen to his dulcet tones!

And you know that at some point in the evening's proceedings, they are all going to stand and sing, We thank thee oh ghawd for a prophet...



On a side note, when you visit the Amway Center's website and look at their calendar of events, Florence + The Machine is there on June 8th, and nothing is mentioned for the 9th. Maybe that will change, but you'd think they'd already have it booked, so I'm guessing that the Amway Center doesn't think it's worth noting to the general public. https://www.amwaycenter.com/events/index/10

Rusty the Rock Star!


ETA: I tried to post a link to a copy of the letter, but RfM rejected the website's name. https://i.re**.it/r7kw4bdlpor21.jpg

if this works, replace the ** with dd, to see it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 08:16PM by elderolddog.

sent me when my daughter was going to take out her "endowment." I was to prepare myself so I could bask in the spirit while sitting in my house. I was to dress accordingly as it is amazing how I would feel dressed up (she didn't mention veil, etc.) and contemplate what my daughter was doing. It was OFFENSIVE.

She just keeps putting her foot in her mouth. She just can't help herself. I'm sure she gets her ideas from letters like you talk about here.

I replied and, first of all, told her I HAD TO WORK. Later I said more.

General: Affecting or concerning ALL or most people, places, or things. Also: vague, hazy, fuzzy.

Authority: The power to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.

The GA's think they're the bosses of the whole world; no wonder visiting dignitaries, presidents,etc pay them a token visit whenever they visit Utah.

Let's see....THE authority of a GA...

Well, first of all, I am changing it to what it amounts to which is THE AUTHORITY THE GAs IMAGINE THEY HAVE.

and, to continue....

The authority the GAs imagine they have... is astronomical, but in reality it amounts to the size of a proton (or less).

The authority the GAs imagine they have... makes them talk and pray like idiots.

The authority the GAs imagine they have.. fills their heads full of so much bigotry, hot air, homophobia, arrogance, etc.it is NO wonder there is not a bit of evidence their heads contain any gray matter.

The authority the GAs imagine they have... is laughable, hilarious, and rather nauseating.

I am amused by the thought that those who would take up arms against ghawd and fight his influence in this world do not take up arms, or in any way seem to oppose, the 15 mormon prophets/apostles.

The biblical apostles, after the passing of their master, converted people left and right; they performed all manner of miracles, big and little. And they were persecuted. In the end, their enemies had their way with them and the majority of them died as martyrs to their faith.

How many of the modern apostles, called by holy revelation by JS and his successors since the personal, profitable restoration, have matched the stature of their role models?

How many miracles?

How many afflictions suffered?

How many scourings?

How many martyrdoms?

Why aren't they all out tracting on Wall Street? If a still pimply Elder in Mr. Mac suit that he bought eight months and 25 extra pounds ago can do it, why aren't they doing it. Whay aren't they visiting the wounded, in the flesh and in the spirit? And why the füčk do they take such pains to dress so well?


I say they are phonies! (shocked, aren't you?)

and that line of work is getting rid of embarrassing stuff that they inherited from Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.

Deleting.

Sweeping under the rug.

Relabeling.

These days they're not so much in the business of "revealing" things as they are in the business of "de-revealing" things. (Or should that be "dis-revealing"?)

Even the modern day "revelations" that seem somewhat good and sensible turn out to be nothing more than getting rid of garbage that was created by earlier prophets. It's just a matter of returning to common sense positions that were previously defied by earlier prophets.

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> These days they're not so much in the business of
> "revealing" things as they are in the business of
> "de-revealing" things. (Or should that be "dis-revealing?)
>

Please ghawd, let them continue to wear clothing that is un-revealing!

Wally, this is one of my fav posts of your many humorous and wise "revelations,"

You said of the Prophet and Apostles, "These days they're not so much in the business of "revealing" things as in the business of "de-revealing" things".

They are "Deleting. Sweeping under the rug. Relabeling".

My mind jumped to what a sad and unproductive way for these clowns to spend their time, energy, and creativity. What a waste for them plus so many others.

Can be compared to how most of the prisoners spend their time behind bars....but, of course, a lot of indoctrinated TBSs and others will never see it this way and would call my statement revolting and worthy, let's see, of excommunication?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2019 06:53PM by presleynfactsrock.

Besides the word "authority"... Hahahaha,

There is the word "general"

It's general alright (not specific)

It's a title they give themselves (to make themselves feel, and appear, more important).

Otherwise they are nobody.
Which they actually are.

The Mormon church is like a huge psychiatric unit where everyone gives each other high falluting titles and thinks the voices they hear are real.

Okay So Lets End the Authority Dispute Here Mark Hoffmann just exposed everyone here and If these Guys Holds any authority and power they're not guilable by a Lowlife scum. Lets all conclude here that Tjose who receive such Delegated Authority from Fraudster are the Current Fruads themselves so whats new? They're gonna white wash agakn from Gordon to The Present

Their "AUTHORITY" amounts to the square root of SFA.

My private authority outranks any General Authority.