I think this is indicative how younger generations feel about the intrusive nature of the Honor Code and local leaders e.g. Bishops. What I don't see in this article is whether or not the revolt is being staged by members or non-members who are forced to live according the Honor Code to gain admission.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46530636/byu-students-plan-sit-in-to-protest-honor-code-after-viral-instagram-account-petition-seek-reform

Interesting!

It will take a miracle to get the church to change.

Why can't one of the fossils assert that there is no such thing as "dishonorable students" as Bednar claimed that there are no homosexuals in the church?

It was impressed upon me to point out something.

1. "THEY" own the univeresity

2. Therefore "THEY" make the rules.

3.SOOOOOO If someone doesn't like the rules they can always go to a different university.

I will probably get blasted about this but in my opinion that is how it is.

I agree with that.

However, if the church leaders had connective brain tissue (I know that it's a leap of faith to assume that they do) then they would be wise when mormon kids start choosing to study elsewhere. Post-secondary education has lots of choices. Perhaps enrollment will begin to drop over the church's position on issues that are important to young people.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> 3.SOOOOOO If someone doesn't like the rules they
> can always go to a different university.

The same argument used about the draft for the Vietnam war. If you don’t like the US then leave. :(

I understand your point desert, but also think rather than just leaving when you don’t like something might as well give them a chance to hear your complaints and make it right.

If everybody just leaves the restaurants instead of sending the food back the cook will never know what was wrong.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 09:23PM by mel.

I own my car.

But if I drive it on public roads, I may have to compromise a bit on that "my car my rules" thing :)

Sometimes things are not not all black and white.

I could see the cult closing YBU before they'd give in to a revolt...that or kicking every one of those students out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 04:02PM by Lethbridge Reprobate.

I sure hope the BYU administration doesn't bow down to student demands that are completely out of line with the intent of the institution.

If one doesn't like something, there are reasonable ways of presenting ones views and solution to the situation. It may change things or it might not.

However, I don't think the appropriate method is what a group at the Evergreen State College in Olympia has been doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ua5V1qhYg0

tumwater,

This was a peaceful protest at BYU. Not a riot or revolt. What’s so objectionable?

My concern that any groups in society that find laws, regulations, policies, etc., that they find objectionable for what ever reason should be able to present their case to the other side as reasonable adults.

I know the current political situation, in my opinion, are acting like a bunch of spoiled brats.

The actions of those at the Evergreen State College (TESC), again to me, completely childish. I can hardly wait for these people to go out into the world and be expecting the business world will be willing to accept this behavior.

I know graduates from TESC that are leaders in their field of work and roll their eyes when asked about what has happened at their school.

I hope that the BYU protesters can have productive dialog with the administration and can arrive at a comprise that will allow the administration to mature and the students grow and expand their horizons of the complexity of this life and the world.

If the administration refuses to listen, then they'll eventually learn that they don't know everything and the LDS church will not grow and will eventually collapse into itself.

>>My concern that any groups in society that find laws, regulations, policies, etc., that they find objectionable for what ever reason should be able to present their case to the other side as reasonable adults.

It would be nice if that could happen, but it often does not come out that way. The civil rights movement, for instance, involved peaceful protests, court cases, people forcibly removed from public buses, lunch counters, etc., people who were struck by the forcible spray of fire hoses, children who went to school with adults screaming at them and threatening them, and so on. If African Americans could have presented their case solely on the basis of reason, I'm sure they would have.

You know this, but the limitation of acceptable means of discourse is the tactic of established power. If outsiders are compelled to express themselves through insider channels, they have already lost the battle.

I'm trying to understand why this protest is not "adult." Would you consider trespassing, vandalism, and the destruction of others' commercial merchandise an inappropriately juvenile means of expressing political opinion?

Say, like the Boston Tea Party?

“Students should not be tattled on, judged or expelled."

Uhh...student..welcome to what awaits you in your adult life in mormondumb. You will continue to be tattled on, judged, and expelled by your Bishop and auxiliary leaders. It is the Mormon way. YBU is simply a microcosm of what you will get in the future. If it's a cult and it quacks like a cult - it is a cult (or something like that).

This is amusing. Oh the irony..from the mouth of babes:

"they should be given the trust that the school will help them and that they can confide in their ecclesiastical leaders to try and work through any issues. Forgiveness should be at the core of the honor code as that is what Christ preaches” \\\

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

You nailed it. "Welcome to the rest of your life as a Mormon, kids!"

Yeah. But you can risk getting kicked out over things that are just misunderstandings.

The management of our apartment complex received complaints about people in our apartment being out too late from married students (who of course are more to be believed because they have been to the international house of handshakes and exchanged some vows while wearing silly clothes). But I digress...

The people who were out late were from the apartment next door, and we got it straightened out. But it could have gone the other way. The enforcement and application of the BYU honor code doesn't seem to be consistent or transparent.

The thought of being kicked out of your apartment and/or school based on rumor and innuendo is scary. That's thousands of dollars and lots of work down the drain. The students are tired of being one confession, one rumor or one unfounded or just plain old false allegation away from expulsion.

People didn't challenge church authorities in the past, now they are doing so. I think that's good, but I also wonder why such people feel like they need to be Mormon in the first place.

"People didn't challenge church authorities in the past, now they are doing so. I think that's good, but I also wonder why such people feel like they need to be Mormon in the first place."

Give them time. This is for many a first step.

Well stated. You're right. I remember as a YBU student (pre-mission) and even a married YBU student, being fearful of anything and everything that I failed to do. If your on-campus bishop doesn't sign you endorsement annually - you're screwed.

I have been watching the live link on the Honor Code Sit-In and I say huge KUDOS to those participating and planning this event. It took some courage and guts, and is definitely what being a university student is all about.

There was a big turnout. Never heard how many, but my guess is 300 to 400. The LBGTQ spokesperson (sorry I forget his name) was very articulate, knowledgeable and able to motivate and relate to the crowd.

I usually always say GO UTES, but today I am saying WOW! GO BYU!
along with, of course, GO UTES! I am impressed with the youth of today!

It's over when the church members say it's over. They don't realize it, but they (collectively) have the power.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's over when the church members say it's over.
> They don't realize it, but they (collectively)
> have the power.

Agreed. If no one went to that school anymore...money talks.

Am I alone in noticing from this link how beautiful Utah is, and feeling so sad that is is controlled and occupied by a cult?

It is their choice to go there. I DIDN'T GO there even if I was TBM. I didn't want to. My sister did go there. She's the one who still is kind of mormon. I did live in Provo for a week once. Long story. I hated it.

It is my understanding that many kids who want to go to BYU don't get to. There are plenty waiting to take their places.

Look at it this way, hopefully those protesting will see the writing on the wall and LEAVE the church. And maybe others will watch from a distance and LEAVE the church. But anyone participating is SURE to be punished.

Most Mormons apparently do not realize that the Honor Code Office is being run like the Gestapo - making false accusations, persecuting young adults and ruining decent kids' lives.

There needs to be an oversight.

Shedding light on their abhorrent practices is long overdue.

A good place to start would be to re-christen it as a "code of conduct" - the idea that there is "honor" in it is rather silly.


"Arbitrary code of conduct" would be more accurate ...

"Honor Code" is used the same way "commandment" is, to give moral importance to the trivial whims of a few old men. "Code of conduct" is too close to, "These are a bunch of rules we just made up, because we can."

The kids have every right to protest, and the university has every right to expel them. It's the same at every college.

Of course there are political consequences to such actions, and those consequences have grown more significant for the church. Let's see what the administrators choose to do.

It reminds me of the "Rotten Cabbage Rebellion" at Harvard, circa 1807, in which the sons of some prominent Bostonians were expelled for having the temerity to complain to the president of the college about worms in their cabbage soup. One just does not speak to authority out of turn ...

Edit:

One of the miscreants was the (later) author Richard Henry Dana.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/12/2019 11:29PM by 3X.

Problem is, not many Mormon parents who force their kids into BYU realize just how nasty things can get over trivial matters.

The Honor Code Office is out of control and needs to be reigned in, they are actually undermining the church and driving good people away.

Elyse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...they are actually undermining
> the church and driving good people away.


And this is a good thing.

I vote for 3X.


the thought / possibility that some (any) YBU students might have the nerve to protest must cause PANIC in the ranks of the bureaucracy at Mormon Central Command.

I broke the "honor code" all the time by wearing jeans on campus and, less frequently, by wearing pants to eat in the Cannon Center dining hall at Helaman Halls on Sundays.

I was never "ratted out" but then, neither was my TBM roommate who regularly spent the night with her boyfriend at Chipman Hall.

notmo

notmonotloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I was never "ratted out" but then, neither was my
> TBM roommate who regularly spent the night with
> her boyfriend at Chipman Hall.



Don't ya just Love It when ppl who are F**king their bfs/gfs, breaking the WoW, or involved in a Ponzi Scheme or a lying, cheating spouse are referred to as TBMs?

it gives them Cover more than Guilt, it seems...

I cheated on tests occasionally (not at BYU), my decision. No honor code can stop people from doing what they want to.

But it's there to punish those who get caught — just like all other laws.

Young people demonstrating that their thinking is difference from the older generation. Saw this right after I read about students and alum at Taylor, a small evangelical college, signing a petition in protest at Mike Pence being invited as commencement speaker.