Cults like mormonism and JW expect members to convert or at least have some control over non-members.

The JW Church expects every member to spend one or two hours a week trying to convert people on the street or in their homes.

The mormon church expects young people to do this all day every day while they're on missions and it expects members to support this idea and to try to reactivate and convert non-members in their daily lives.

The truth is that some non-members don't mind. They might actually enjoy these interchanges. So no harm done.

Others put up with it to appear nice even if they do not like it.

Then there are those who have zero interest in giving even the slightest support to destructive cults and they hate the intrusions.

There are some who hate it more than that if they have post traumatic stress symptoms when they're confronted by cultists.

The point is this: Cults which demand cooperation from non-members might feel they are mistreated or disrespected when they meet up with non-compliant non-members.

I can't feel too sorry for their dismay because everyone is different and not everyone is interested in letting cultists who are strangers intrude into their private time and personal space.

I don't mind if mormons or others stand on street corners and talk to people as long as I can easily find another route. What I won't allow is having them on my doorstep or having them impede my path or force themselves into my time or space.

I think they need to face the fact that some people feel this way and that it's their right.

They like to say these people are "afraid" or that they're overreacting when they don't comply with cult expectations. The truth is they might simply be exerting their right to be free and real about what they will and will not do.

We all have to comply with rules and regulations on the job. We get money to do that.

We don't have to comply with cult expectations when we're cozy on our couches enjoying our families or a good book. It's okay if our priority in our private time is to put our own needs and those of our loved ones before those of strangers who phone or knock on our doors.

Thanks Cheryl, for more excellent points and insights into the subject of cult missionaries (any missionaries in my book ftm who act like pushy salespeople.)

Invading privacy is an excellent way of describing it, worse IMO than answering the phone to a phisher or con artist via a phone or online hack.

It's an intrusion, plain and simple. I no more trust a stranger missionary on my doorstep than someone else.

My neighbor told me just a few moments ago that this past week someone set fire to another neighbor's truck in their driveway while the family slept at 5 a.m. Two explosions were heard, and a smallish person was seen running through the backyard of the home to escape.

We are on a neighborhood watch alert where I live. We look out for each other. We are a close knit community. It's also a nice neighborhood for crooks to prowl and cultists to haunt.

They are not welcome here. Next call: police precinct.

For the update on the fire in the neighborhood I missed hearing the explosions when it occurred. My house sits further away than the neighbor who it woke up. His sits on the other side of the street.

Mormonism is OPD, but just a few have noticed or will admit it.

I noticed that the JWs had a “booth” at the Downtown Disney area of the Disneyland Resort in Anaheim when I was there in October. I appreciated that they approached no one...they just stood there waiting for someone to start a conversation with them. On the many times I walked by I never saw anyone talk with them. I saw the same behavior in downtown Washington DC this January.

I appreciated not being spiritually assaulted but I think this is a most ineffective means of proselytizing.

My beef with them is trying to legislate their beliefs onto everyone.

Changing legislation enacted by the people to conform to their standards.

School dress codes that only reflect their values.

My non mormon daughter in law tried to volunteer for home room mom. They said the spots were filled. Later I learned they didn't want her because of her tattoos.

The list is endless.

To me, in the end, they will end up pushing people in the opposite direction. It is not hard to go in the opposite direction given that the cult demands to cut ties with apostates. In reality there are more apostates than there are mormons.

That's exactly the problem. They are not happy having everyone's support to be religious and live their religion. They've got to try and do things to force others to also abide by their religious rules.

Then they have the audacity to complain THEY are being persecuted when they can't force others to also follow their religious guidance.

We are seeing this more and more. It's alarming and worth pushing back to protect our personal choices, including the choices religious people have for THEMSELVES.

I have no problem agreeing that I wish cult members would not disturb my peace.

Would I want to enact legislation to make it mandatory that they not be able to knock on my door? Personally, I wouldn't mind, but then in a Democracy (on paper, at least) their Constitution might take issue...what's a pampered cuidadano to do?

On one hand 'this'; on the other hand 'that'.

One JW woman accosted me with her proselytizing while I was enjoying shopping in a store. I doubt the store owners would appreciate their customers being so harassed.

OTOH, I had a JW colleague who was respectful of boundaries. She would very occasionally mention her church activities, as anyone might. But one time when her comments started to veer into proselytizing, she caught herself before it went that far. She had a good sense of professionalism, and I always enjoyed her company.

Funny, but both times I've visited St George to check it out as a potential retirement locale, the only person to accost me in a public place as a proclaimed member of a religious organization wasn't LDS. He was a Jehovah Witness.

I was filling up my car rental in a gas station in broad daylight. He was literally loitering standing around there as I was filling up my car. I normally do not talk to strangers. He walked right up to me and began talking out of the blue. It kind of creeped me out. He wasn't actually proselytizing but he was clear in asserting his religion as JW. Adding he was retired to St George, married, and a former truck driver. Yada yada.

Well, hells bells. I'm glad there were surveillance cameras all around the freaking place and that it was in broad daylight. It was just very strange. He wasn't tracting or proselytizing or anything. He was just standing there at the gas pumps. Bleeping weird.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2019 09:24PM by Amyjo.

I personally wouldn't have any problem shouting to that man to back off. I did that to a strange man who approached me as I was unloading my groceries. He was a beggar. I reported him to store management and they chased him off the lot. I put my personal safety first.

There were beggars in SLC loitering o/s supermarkets. They are a fixture there I was told by a store clerk. Best to ignore them. But as for safety? It's a judgment call as in keep a safe distance. They still try to give you a sob story parked outside the doors of Smith Food. I wouldn't shop there at night.

Most of the customers and local merchants hated it. They complained to the City Counsel and the Safeway managers who put a stop to it. I haven't seen beggars anywhere in this town for years and I'm glad. If they need help, they need to get it through official agencies. Long term begging is no way to live.

There is one gas station where we stop if we're visiting relatives about a hundred miles from here. There used to be a gypsy lady in an SUV walking around with her toddler son on her hip and begging for money to buy gas. It was a regular routine. I said something to the manager and she came out and told the woman to leave. She said that woman tries that scam whenever she can but it's illegal and not acceptable to the customers and those running the business.

The lady and her child were always perfectly dressed and the SUV was new and very big. The woman could spend her time doing legitimate work for money. As I said, begging isn't a good strategy for a happy productive live.

If it's a private lot, the store can tell them to leave. The man who approached me was within an arm's length. That is not okay with me, being approached so closely in a lot with few other people around.

I can tolerate beggars who are less aggressive. But I still think they don't belong on private property.

Since they can’t talk to excommunicated members, if they approached me, especially at the house , I’d say something like “ Are they sending people to check up on me now?”, act upset
Or” The way they treated me at church, I’m supposed to talk to you?”, they’ll probably want to know what you’re talking about , then you can say you were rudely excommunicated, so you were forced to move, etc
If you just tell them up front that you were excommunicated , they might think you’re just saying that to get rid of them.

Yes....and the problem is us! At least, that is what the members of cults have been conditioned to believe.

I completely agree that what is needed is for the cult members to hear what others in the real world think. These members live in a cocoon which can keep them beyond insulated and blind-sighted.

I think non-cultists are doing them a service to inform them of another way of seeing reality. How else will they learn about it?

These people are victims. This is the position I take with those in my life I so wish were out of their cocoons. Who knows?.....maybe my example or my words and experiences might help them see a better way of living-----facts over Faith!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/13/2019 05:16PM by presleynfactsrock.

I copied that statement by Russ about choosing second best and I told my mormon friend that she should laugh out loud while reading that about me, but that WE CHOOSE TO NOT PARTICIPATE so if they want to think I chose second best, fine for them. What goes along with it is, it is our RIGHT TO CHOOSE.

My neighbor had texted me about the R.S. birthday party and gave me a long reason about getting out to be around people about why I should go and she knows I spend HOURS at Sam's Club (which I don't like as I don't like being around people). Next time she does it, I'm going to say that I resigned for a reason and it is my choice, and that I didn't like participating in mormon cultural events when I was active mormon either. I want them to STOP and it isn't going to until I say something. I'm sick of being everyone's project. I'm not some idiot who has to be babysat.

Mormonism is insidious. Involving yourself socially with church members is like hanging around with criminals. Eventually, what they are doing and what they expect you to do starts to rub-off on you. Before you know it, you feel comfortable around these people and might get drawn in to things that you really don't want to be a part of. Next thing you know, you're listening to general conference talks and buying-in to the unhealthy beliefs and paradigms, which are then reinforced by your social group. So don't even give them a chance.

But family is different. My family will always be my family. With regard to my mormon friends who have been lifelong friends going back to my TBM days, I've kept some of them too. I half-jokingly tell them that they're grandfathered-in. But I only stayed friends with those who were really my friends and who I know care about me. The rest of them tended to filter themselves out. Those who stayed respect my choices. Our differences in beliefs haven't affected the friendship, even if we don't have a lot in common to talk about anymore. When it comes to their associating with apostates (that's me), just let the church try separating me from these friends and family. All that will happen is that several of them will become apostates too. Most of my family have already left the church and my remaining Mormon friends are wavering in their belief already (thanks in part to me). So the influence goes in both directions. If the church doesn't get their act together, no amount of proselytizing will matter. People just keep leaving when the bullshit gets too thick.

Cheryl wrote: "We all have to comply with rules and regulations on the job. We get money to do that."

Yes, and we good citizens comply with the laws of the land.

Most of us have our own social "rules of etiquette" in being polite and kind to others.

A lot of Mormons don't behave as though "the rules" apply to them, at all, is what I'm saying. Why do they expect non-Members to obey petty, arbitrary, one sided Mormon rules?

The Hell I'm going to stop using the word "Mormon".
If pants-wearing women aren't allowed, then I will not attend.
If Mormons can't comprehend "No Soliciting", I don't have to open the door and explain it to them.

Thank you, Cheryl, for your empowering posts. Some of us are so used to Mormon bullying, that we accept that behavior as inevitable, and we are the ones who tip-toe around the Mormons all the time. Some of us, like me, with my PTSD, can actually be afraid of Mormons.

The Mormons used to beat loudly on my door at night (never used our perfectly functional doorbell), with the rudeness and urgency, that the message was "We are big powerful men--and you BETTER OPEN THIS DOOR!" Like, it wasn't my door at all, and I didn't have a right to keep it locked to them."

NOT! Mormons have no legal power--only abusive power, like criminals have. They have no "authority" over us, whatsoever. They use more than manipulation and assertiveness--they use bullying and threats! A small woman and kids (no husband around) are expected to cave in. Mormons get furious, when we little-ones use our RIGHTS, as human beings, to protect ourselves, our families, our property, and we call the police, that we pay for as tax-payers. This is the responsible way to protect our peace, in areas where criminals and scammers flourish--it is a good thing.

When the non-Mormon targets are defending themselves in a normal and reasonable manner, the Mormon stalkers will make a stink, threaten, or whine "Persecution!" It works! They do break down doors, and bring in new members, even though the Mormons need to step up their level of harassment, and stalk many more people, in order to get just one convert. The Mormon cult not only encourages this invasive behavior, it demands it from their members. (Mormons bully each other, worse than they bully non-Mormons. It's a cult of hatred, competition, domination, lies, and threats.

Indeed, the criminals and Mormons don't like any law or rule that stands between them and the money they are trying to steal from victims.

Cooperating with cults and criminals is a bad idea! It's like putting criminals in charge of the penal system, since they are the ones most effected by it.

I'm sorry, but no matter how nicely they are dressed, no matter how broad their smiles, no matter how well-rehearsed their words-- Mormons are just like other criminals. They want to take something away from you--your money, your children, your estate, your self-respect, your reputation, your happiness, your hopes, your time, your rights, your beliefs, your hopes of heaven.

(I was going to say "Mormon Strangers", but in my life, it was the Mormons I KNEW, that molested my little girl, assaulted my Deacon boys, assaulted and raped me at BYU, and stole money from me--and there were other victims, not just us.)

Because of individual sins and mistakes, and repentance, etc., I probably shouldn't lump everyone together--except for reasons of personal safety.

Read Russel Nelson's conference talk. Does he really expect non-members to conform to those threats?

"Demanding non-member cooperation" is one of the many ways Mormons bully others. We who can't afford gated communities or impenetrable walls around our property, must be strong in saying "NO". "No soliciting. No trespassing. No abusing our children!" We 99% of the population have the law on our side.

Exminions, your words and writing are powerful and very well stated.

I am so sorry for what you and your family went through at the hands of some mormons. Mormonism is a dangerous cult in so, so many ways and this bullying is one of the big ones.

You deserve big kudos and shouts of praise for the strength and courage you developed and fought for.