After reading a post about ordinances in another topic, I was reminded how much ordinances and temple work are like Catholic indulgences.

At the time Martin Luther posted his 95 theses, the Catholic church was caught up in the practice of collecting money from those who could afford to pay their way into heaven, or at least to shorten their time in purgatory.

As I understand it, as a nevermo, Mormons can't get to the highest levels of the celestial kingdom unless they do their ordinances, and get brownie points if they do temple work. The only way Mormons can do either is if they have temple recommends, and they can't get a temple recommend if they don't pony up 10% of their income.

It's a little more convoluted than a straight-up indulgence, but doesn't the whole pay-to-play-in-the-temple ploy amount to the same thing?

A church needs ordinances to differentiate itself and to have something to sell. Just preaching to be good and to follow Christ isn’t profitable. Selling ordinances is.

That’s why the LDS church puts so much focus on the temple. It makes the members believe they are God’s special group and the church makes money off of the tithing paid to get the recommend.

Yes.

The most obvious form of "indulgence" is the second anointing, which guarantees admission to the top of the celestial kingdom, but the argument you propose is surely correct.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2019 03:17PM by Lot's Wife.

How presumptuous of these religions to decide who is allowed where in an afterlife. How convenient it requires money or church service/membership.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How presumptuous of these religions to decide who
> is allowed where in an afterlife. How convenient
> it requires money or church service/membership.

Exactly.

When my wife first told me about her temple recommend and the requirements for being temple-worthy, I had suggested that it sounded like Mormons had set up a system for buying their way into heaven.

If looks could kill, I'd be a pile of ash. "We ARE NOT like the Catholics with their indulgences! The ordinances that we do in the temple are what gets us into heaven, not our tithings!"

Me-"But you can't even get into the temple if you don't pay your tithing, right?"

Wife-"Tithing is just one of the requirements for entering the temple. There's a list of things we must do before we are worthy; such as, ...."

Me-"The only thing the church can enforce, or even know about for sure, is your tithing though. You could lie about everything else, but as long as you're good with your tithing, you're golden. That pretty much makes tithing the only real factor in entering the temple, doesn't it?"

Wife-"You can't enter the temple if you lie!"

Me-"But who would know if someone didn't tell about the occasional glass of wine in the privacy of their own home? And would they really care as long as that person was paying their full tithing? Unless, of course, whoever was doing the temple interview was on a power trip."

Wife-"The church IS NOT like the Catholic church you grew up in!"

Me-"Perhaps not, but human nature has a habit of popping up wherever humans happen to be."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2019 03:59PM by GregS.

What I don't like is the 'force' used to extract tithing from those who can least afford it.

Any reasonable person who grew up in the society which the members are all part of knows what it takes to 'get by' in the day to day world. If a bishop knows how much you make, then he knows who much you have 'left over' from which to pay the ghawd tax. Then you could play bishop roulette with regard how much is fair to keep and how much to give to ghawd. After you're making over $xxx/month, the full ghawd tax should be expected.

If the amount earned is proportional to how much ghawd loves you, ghawd hates a whole lot of people!

to lead an ordinance-related fireside for the youth at one of the members' homes. Specifically, they wanted him to focus on the "awesome power of ordinances".

He showed up with some mortar launchers, a surplus howitzer and five grenade launchers.

Someone quickly pulled him aside and told him that it was "ordInance" with an "i". But when it started to look like he was getting upset, standing there with his shoulder-mounted grenade launcher in one hand and a claymore in the other, they quickly changed their tone and said that they would love to hear him talk about his ordnance for the next hour or for however long he wanted to talk about it.

His countenance brightened and everyone had a good time looking at his ordnance while enjoying fruit punch and chocolate chip cookies.

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone quickly pulled him aside and told him that it was "ordInance" with an "i".

Hahahah! Good story, Walls!

Sure. That's nothing for Roger Rugged. He often carries a couple of mini-clays around in his back pockets "just in case".

When my BIL exposed some prepper leanings at a family gathering, I blurted out, "Well, that explains the ordnance in the temple."

He paused for a moment with a confused look on his face, but then the light bulb went on. He pointed at me with a big grin, "I see what you did. Hell, yeah! Ordnance in the temple! Bring it on, apocalypse! We're ready for you!"

Indulgences certainly favored the rich, but they were supposed to be similar to a fine which took the place of other forms of penance. They didn't necessarily guarantee a person a place in heaven. That depended on the sincerity of the penitent. However, those who were selling them often exaggerated the benefits and implied, or even said outright, that if you had them you were pretty much assured of a place in heaven and ignored the actual repentance which you were supposed to feel.Another footnote-the church needed money to build the new St Peters and this sounded like a good idea.It wasnt, but we did get a great basilica out of it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2019 03:12AM by bona dea.

THe difference is that mormonism is the one and only tuooo religion and catholics are the church of the devil.

(At least that's what I thought growing up)

Lot's wife and I had a fairly extensive exchange on the matter, involving the rather exotic-sounding doctrine of "sacradotalism.'
Theological, but not as complicated as it sounds.Summarized a lot (pun intended), Sacradotalism is the belief that a religious institution, or clergy (priesthood) is a necessary intercessor between God (or the supernatural) and Mankind.

Rather than recapitulate it, for those with a real interest in this, check out:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2200359,2212324#msg-2212324



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/16/2019 01:24PM by caffiend.

As soon as silver in the coffer rings
The soul from purgatory springs
... Tetzel, the patron saint of parish fund raisers

* "Nailed" -- not to be confused with the Lord's crucifixion.