No, of course not. But Mormon apostle Bruce R McConkie, in 1966 edition of "Mormon Doctrine" names the Catholics as the rightful target of all the BOM descriptions of the most horrible church, including great and abominable, whore of all the earth, whore of Babylon, etc.

Although the Mormon church has never officially affirmed this teaching, the idea WAS prevelent back when I was active LDS in the 1970's. It was commonly assumed to be true.

Wow, how the so called "church" changes! Recently of course, Mormon leaders want to cow tow, buddy up to the Catholics. Maybe Rusty is jealous of the Pope....or of Catholicism's huge numbers of adherents worldwide. Regardless, just another indication of MORMON irrelevancy and willingness to conveniently change for good public relations.

In my mission in Latin America aka Catholic land at the turn of the century we missionaries still all knew with every fiber in our rice and beans that the Catholic Church was the great and abominable whore of the earth. At what point did this change in Mormondumb?

Americans were pretty anti-Catholic in the early 1800s (and well beyond) and this is clearly reflected in the BoM. The Great and Abominable Church described in the BoM, with its riches and fancy raiment seems to fit the RC Church. McConkie was just stating the plain reading of the BoM.

Besides, in the First Vision version 2.2 JC told JS that all the churches were abominations. They now sweep that little statement under the carpet too. They've discovered they have to at least attempt to play nice with the other kids on the block.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Americans were pretty anti-Catholic in the early
> 1800s (and well beyond) and this is clearly
> reflected in the BoM. The Great and Abominable
> Church described in the BoM, with its riches and
> fancy raiment seems to fit the RC Church.
> McConkie was just stating the plain reading of the
> BoM.
>
> Besides, in the First Vision version 2.2 JC told
> JS that all the churches were abominations. They
> now sweep that little statement under the carpet
> too. They've discovered they have to at least
> attempt to play nice with the other kids on the
> block.

Ummmm U might say that, but in real life, Mormonism is an isolated bubble, they really don't care about much beyond the end of their wallets....

Russ could set up some kind of grievance process for Mormons who've had problem situations with ChurchCo, but NO!

Russ kissing up to the Holy Father? That's clearly hyperbole/ exaggeration, isn't it? That visit to Rome was obviously more about Planting a Flag (Temple) in the Eternal City, No Temple, there wouldn't have been a trip/visit.


There are other religious leaders - closer to SLC / COB that Russ won't give the time of day to, aren't there?

In part that is correct. The temple made a meeting with the pope convenient.

But the church has changed direction and is seeking publicity for meetings with global leaders. Hence Holland's desultory audience with Teresa May. There have been many temple openings without visits to local national leaders; there was no need to visit Francis.

The key is in the optics. May was obviously busy when she met Holland and conducted most of the interview as she was running to more important meetings. The photos indicate that the Mormons were supplicants. The same is true of the trip to the Vatican. Nelson and his factotums were seated below the pope in the position of tributaries--if that. Then they were left to argue in the press that they'd spent 35 minutes with him: not a mere half hour, mind you.

Clearly the church now thinks portraying themselves as global players is a winning strategy.

I fail to see any benefit for ChurchCo to be considered a World Player.

Sure, they've been on the PR Train for a few decades, but truly: How does it help their bottom line, $, members, or converts?

In all things the Q guys do, I'm thinking / afraid that arrogance is an overwhelming factor; they'll still be annoyed to visit Stake Conferences, annoyed at the pandering that the unwashed masses shower them with, etc. etc.

Other than power/adulation (won't get much of that from non-mos), I don't understand what makes those guys tick other than those superficial things mentioned above.

GNPE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I fail to see any benefit for ChurchCo to be
> considered a World Player.

The church has few successes of which to boast nowadays. The PR campaign has been an attempt to redress that weakness, and the global effort is Nelson's new iteration of that strategy.



> Sure, they've been on the PR Train for a few
> decades, but truly: How does it help their bottom
> line, $, members, or converts?

There are several assumptions in that passage. First, we don't know how successful the PR work has been. The church has data we don't; the organization may well be stronger than it would otherwise have been. Second, as I said in my post above, the Q15 THINK this is a wise strategy. Even with their data and analysis, they may be wrong. But the key to reading their intentions is their actions: both the meetings with important global leaders and the extent to which they are accompanied by reporters, cameramen, etc., imply that they think the events are worth an investment of time and money.



> In all things the Q guys do, I'm thinking / afraid
> that arrogance is an overwhelming factor.

Your observation and mine are not mutually exclusive.



> Other than power/adulation (won't get much of that
> from non-mos), I don't understand what makes those
> guys tick other than those superficial things
> mentioned above.

The church would like adulation from outsiders, to be sure, but that is not the primary goal. If it were, they would donate to charity. The fact that they used these visits as media opportunities, and "spun" the meetings as major events for May and the Vatican, indicates that they are trying to impress Mormons.

An extreme example of anti-Catholicism occurred in Boston in 1834: the destruction of the Ursuline convent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursuline_Convent_riots

Macaromneyncheese, I agree it's a horrible institution but I think the point of the post is that mormons have seemingly back peddled from their former (unofficial) position of the RCC being the whore of the earth. I know many mormon Facebook friends were pretty excited about Rusty the Clown meeting the Pope. McConkey must be turning over in his grave!

Exactly, apostNate....

In the sixties my Seminary teacher took great delight in calling the Catholic Church the "Great and Abominable Whore of all the Earth." I also heard it in many other places in the church in those days as it is derived from the BoM.

So if that was true once, who's the whore now that is going and begging for an audience with the "Devil's own?"

The Mormons have had to take back almost everything they ever said. Or is the "almost" even applicable?

My seminary teacher in 70's was preaching the same thing.

So I'm guessing, no donations to rebuild Notre Dame from LDS???

I'm guessing yes for the press coverage. Everything's a PR opportunity for LDS Inc.

I cannot believe how much money the Catholic church is raking in to rebuild.
They have no financial accountability and tons of gold.

One rm told us wide eyed deacons about how the crown the Pope wears had Latin which translated to Whore of Satan.

bearlaker Wrote:
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> I cannot believe how much money the Catholic
> church is raking in to rebuild.
> They have no financial accountability and tons of
> gold.

The nation of France owns the cathedral, not the catholic church.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-17/france-s-axa-insured-notre-dame-artwork-two-construction-firms

I always felt bad for the Catholics I knew of (didn't know any personally at the time). Some of my best friends ever were/are Catholics. Husband is out. Doesn't believe in organized religion either. They never attended.

I'll be surprised if there are donations from Rusty to rebuilding Notre Dame. But then who knows what he'll do next?

I was there. I know. I can name names.

Yes...if LDS leaders DO decide to donate $$$,it will show a huge reversal of previous attitudes and policies. The PR machine is powerful...