I just read the last post to Cheryl's now closed thread, and couldn't believe my eyes.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2215370,2215714#msg-2215714

What an evil sick mind f*ck thing to do.

He was emulating his father's behavior no doubt, at least he thought..

What your dad did is similar to mine in butchering our livestock on the little farm we grew up on as children. He butchered little rabbits like your pet, us kids thought were our pets until they weren't. Same for fowl. The larger ones he sent out to have butchered like our hereford steer, Lil Abner. And others.

To make you, (like my siblings and me,) have to sit at the table to eat our pets, was torture on us kids. To force you to watch him butcher your pet rabbit is even more unthinkable. :(

I so know the agony you must have felt. And glad for you and me both those days are long behind us now.

As for your sadistic sicko of a brother, how did he turn out to be? A ward bishop? A convicted felon in prison? Or worse?

((((Hugs))))

it was never as bad as what you guys suffered through. My dad did have a temper and could be really mean. I could post some of the things he did. I actually did live in fear of men as most of the men in my family seemed to be mean except my grandfather. The other grandfather passed away when I was 3. My dad's dad was a wonderful loving man. I know he wasn't always perfect either.

But kill pets? Kill animals we raised and make us eat them? Never. Coming from a farmer and reading the above, I can't imagine what having to eat my own pet rabbit would be like.

We had sheep. I was going to say my father got them for my brother for FFA, but we started taking care of them when I was in 1st grade, so my brother would have been in 5th grade. We worked hard. BUT we never ever ate lamb--even other lamb. We sold them at the fair, but to me, they were never pets. My brother used to cry over them when he'd sell them. I could NEVER understand teaching children this. I saw it all around me when we were selling animals at the fair.

To this day, none of us eat lamb. Not a one of us including my dad never ate it. My dad treated animals well. Even going so far as feeding cats and wiping their rear ends when their mother died right after their birth. My parents even took the kittens with them on a trip to New Mexico to see my sister and would stop to feed them, etc. We also all love animals and all have pets. My disabled brother had horses and my dad helped care for them and watched out for them out on the farm.

I'm just in shock over how bad the abuse was. My mother, as I said, was unpredictable, but she didn't beat us. Ever. She never should have had 6 children as it was too much for her to handle.

What has happened to me while being on this board is to realize how good I actually had it. I cannot imagine not feeling like home was a refuge.

I agree. I was horrified by it as well. IMO Mahana's brother and father quite possibly have indicators for sociopathy. Killing animals for pleasure (as her brother did,) is definitely an indicator.

A good primer on sociopathy is "The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout. I recommend this book because sociopathy is surprisingly common (most sociopaths learn how to "pass" in society) and it is best to be aware of them, and avoid them to the greatest extent possible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 10:32AM by summer.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2215370,2215579#msg-2215579

OMG, what was your mama thinking? Hint: she wasn't!

She didn't even care if you were injured or not, only inflicted further injury upon you and wounds that have lasted for your lifetime.

Reading and re-reading through that thread is mind boggling how any of us survived our childhoods. And yet we did somehow, by what I consider nothing short of a miracle and the grace of God himself.

Did it make us stronger? Maybe.

But I have attachment disorder to this day from some of my trauma as a child and youth. So survival in and of itself is not thriving.

I am a fighter. I learned to be to survive. I also give as well as I take.

Hugs to you too, Messygoop, and all others who endured living hells who shouldn't have had to. If it is part of the school of life, we passed the tests. Was wisdom our reward?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 10:45AM by Amyjo.

WoW! My dad was abusive, but he never went this far. As a matter of fact, we did raise rabbits for food, and my mom and I took care of them. But, dad butchered them and took care of that end. Eventually, we stopped raising them because dad couldn't stand killing them. And, he was a hunter. But, this was different.

I'm sorry that you went through this. This is so horrible.

"God takes care of his own."

I believe this speaks for itself.

Question do arise: is anyone taking care of the others? If so, does this annoy ghawd, or is it all just part of the plan?

It is because of a traumatic childhood and past it has been my faith that has helped me in dealing with the pain and trauma of past events.

I give thanks and praise for that every day, ie, my faith that has helped me to heal and to cope with loss, grief, and suffering.

Sure, we all cope in different ways. For me it is faith and my belief in a higher power that keep me grounded.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2019 12:52PM by Amyjo.

>
> Sure, we all cope in
> different ways...
>

Well said!

From my perspective, no one coping mechanism can claim to be the best way, much less the only way.

Mahana, that’s so heartbreaking, almost bought tears to my eyes. I can only imagine what else went on. I’m curious too, eith the others, how did that lunatic brother turn out? Did your dad continue his behaviour?
He made Mahana’s father look like a saint.
( Referring to Mahana in the “ Johnny Lingo” story)

I totally agree with whats been said. I believe my father was a narcissist for sure, but I'm not certain if he was a sociopath or not. He did not seem to get enjoyment from killing animals. But he was completely unattached to any feelings whatsoever. There were several instances where I believe he skinned animals alive. I was accustomed to butchering and could tell the difference between twitching nerves and life. He did not have empathy and would never consider what the animal felt. Butchering them was a chore that took as little thought or care as taking out the trash. In some sick way I think he did have satisfaction from tormenting us with it though.

When he killed my rabbit I was forced to hold a big metal bowl while he skinned and gutted it. He'd fill the bowl with it's organs and body & I had to deliver to my mom in the kitchen to finish cleaning. Then take the bowl back for the next one assembly-line style. It was a part of farm life, but in the case of my rabbit it was a given as pet not livestock! You prepare yourself for things you know will end up on the dinner table, not your pets! Amyjo, I'm so sorry you went through this type of thing too! It was unthinkably cruel. I'm so glad those days are long behind us as well!!


I absolutely believe my brother is a narcissist and a sociopath. Far sicker than my father. He enjoyed torturing & killing animals insect, and snakes. He would do it for fun and watch them squirm. Anytime I caught him doing it, I would threaten his life and make him end the suffering of whatever poor creature he was tormenting immediately, or do it myself.

He relentlessly tormented and abused my sister. She was smaller than him and very sensitive. He enjoyed it. It's no wonder she ended up with multiple personalities. My mother and 2 younger brothers were constant targets as well. I was bigger and stronger than him and he was afraid of me. I protected the others when I could and fought him off when I needed to. He knew I would win and most times would run away before things got physical.

I didn't fear him until he was in high school and he started lifting weights. He'd had enough of being beaten by our father and was bulking up to take him on. One day he did and it was the blowup if the century! They started brawling all over the kitchen and into the bathroom. The table was flipped, chairs were thrown, light were shattered and glass was flying, it was bad!! My mom had taken a few hits trying to get in between them but there was no stopping it. Somehow in the mayhem she came up with an idea and grabbed a pitcher out of the cupboard, filled it with scalding hot tap water, and repeatedly threw it on them until they finally stopped. That was the last time he beat my brother but my mother paid dearly for what she did.

Surprisingly my brother also has some very good traits and times he was amazingly thoughtful, caring, and generous. We were very poor but he bought my sister, my mom, and I brand new coats once out of his own money. After one terribly disappointing Christmas he even bought me a beautiful porcelain doll. But the sad thing is, you never knew what side of him you were going to get. I believe he a good heart deep down and has the ability to be an awesome person but knowingly chose to go down the sickening path he did.

After high school he went on a mission and came backed a changed man, at least I thought. But he had converted a 40+ yr old lady that was a complete psycho. She convinced him she loved him and they were meant to be together. She made all sorts of plans and couple of weeks after he was released they met up several states away and eloped. It didn't take long before they were at each others throats and feeding off each others crazy. Thank whatever powers that be she had her tubes tied and couldn't have kids!! They ended up divorced after a couple of years and he joined the military (great idea to give a lunatic a gun isn't it!?!?).

He ended up marrying another women that he met in the military who wasn't much better than the last. They've been separated and back together too many times to count and have two kids together. They both have serious issues and have put their kids through absolute hell. Red flags came up when the kids started school and they got turned in CPS. But there just wasn't enough proof of physical abuse or neglect to take them away, and they've taught to kids to lie and cover for them. At one point we were almost able to adopt the kids when they split. They both abandoned the kids at my parents (for months!) and said they would sign them over. But when it came down to it they refused to do it, blamed us for trying to take them away, and somehow they ended up back together. Somehow everyone else is always to blame for all of their problems you know.

They are both on disability and have moved all over mooching off different family members through the years until they get kicked out. The family members who have tried to help only did it for the sake of the kids. They've burned so many bridges and cut so much of the family out of their lives they were SOL and eventually HAD to do something to take care of themselves. The last time I spoke with them they seemed to be doing better than they have in a long time. I can only hope they are, but things can change in a second.

I think the biggest point in sharing my story and believe all of yours, is that no matter what kind, or how big or small the issues we lived through were, it took the same effort, hope, courage, and strength to survive it. We LIVED and made it out!! After many, many, generations in my family the cycle of abuse stopped right here, with you and I. In just one generation lives have changed.. pretty amazing when you think about it!!

I’m glad that your story had a feel good ending, if you want to call it that, I say “ bravo” to the new generation that made it happen, who knows how far in history it would of gone.
Like the saying “ You have to go to hell before you get to heaven “ rings true in your situation

Sounds like your brother took a roller coaster ride up and then mostly down for much of his life after his mission.

What a tale if his could talk. :)

My youngest brother had ADHD before there was an official diagnosis for it, in his childhood and youth. He also had a ferocious temper to go with it, and some terrible temper tantrums.

After my parents divorce I went to live with my mom for a short time in Ogden, where my brother was living with her - he was the only one of my siblings who'd stayed with mom since our parents breakup. He was still a bit of a trouble maker, but by then was in junior high. And I was in high school, so our paths were divergent for the most part except for when we were both home at the same time.

One afternoon while mom was at work, I was sunbathing in the backyard. Mom had brought our pet goose from Idaho with her when she moved to Utah. It was a tough old bird that had survived two slaughters of two separate flocks of geese by neighborhood packs of dogs that had gotten loose on our farm years before.

That goose really was a survivor. For some reason he bonded only with me and my dad. So there I am in the backyard with goosie guarding me. (He was like a watchdog.) Out comes bro with mom's English bulldog to pick a fight while I was soaking up some rays.

The bulldog comes charging toward my blanket. Goosie had me covered. He went roaring after Diamond Lil like there was no tomorrow. She went running back into the house lol.

And my brother? I stood up to see what he wanted. He came at me to hit me, and I lifted my hand at him to deflect his move. I grabbed him by the wrist. That was all I did.

In the next split second I don't know what happened other than he went flying up through the air in a circle, and fell flat on his back. He was dumbfounded. Truth be told, so was I. I didn't know what had just happened. But whatever happened worked, and he left me alone for the rest of the day. I used no strength at all. Just grabbed his wrist. His flying through the air over my head and landing on his back was beyond any rational explanation I had for what had just occurred. If there was one, I was not aware of it. But thanked the powers that be (or maybe my guardian angel,) for standing watch over me that day like goosie was. If all pets go to heaven I expect to see goosie there. :)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2019 11:46PM by Amyjo.

Thanks everyone for the reply's. Apologies for the bad grammar in my last post. I get terrible brain fog (from health issues) and sometimes things don't come out as intended. I always cringe when re-reading my posts.

Amyjo, your goosie sounds like he was one smart and perceptive bird! I'd run too.. you better have some sort of weapon if a goose is after you.. lol If there's another side after this life I hope he's waiting for you!

So crazy about flipping your brother over like that! I've had a few weird things like that happen, it makes you wonder..