New episode on Investigation Discovery featured this evening about a Salt Lake City father of eight, Richard Worthington, who became outraged (he had a very short temper,) when his wife decided to have a tubal ligation.

He took his rage out on the doctor and the hospital where the procedure went down. The doctor was present when the man took the people hostage, but the doctor went in hiding.

Why so outraged over his wife's tubal ligation? Because he "knew" there was another baby in heaven waiting to be born to them.

The guy was clearly deranged and off his rocker, but was otherwise described as a religious, devout family man.

Without giving the show away, it's on tonight if anyone else wants to see it.

The show before it was also a premier new episode about another Salt Lake City homicide around the same time. Only that one involved a prostitute who had moved there from Oregon. It became a cold case before DNA brought it to closure. The killer thought he'd gotten away with the perfect murder, but for the science of DNA that finally nailed his coffin.

Two ID premier episodes back to back tonight, featuring Salt Lake City area as the crime scenes. This last one with the husband suicidal and homicidal is directly attributed to his fanatical religious beliefs that drove him to murder, and willing to commit mass murder. He was a homicidal maniac.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2019 11:37PM by Amyjo.

Amyjo Wrote:
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> The guy was clearly deranged and off his rocker,
> but was otherwise described as a religious, devout
> family man.

I would change one word in that sentence.

> The guy was clearly deranged and off his rocker
> AND was otherwise described as a religious, devout
> family man.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2019 11:48PM by Lot's Wife.

I wish they had the ID channel here. It was our favourite channel in NC. We watched it whenever no games were on. I loved Joe Kendra and Deadly women. The Oxygen channel has some of the same type of shows, but not as good. A lot of the shows were on religious nuts. Jim Jones is on the other channel tomorrow, can’t think what it is now.
That Richard guy sounds very deranged, rescuing all the babies in pre existence, give me a break

Hockeyrat Wrote:
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> I wish they had the ID channel here. It was our
> favourite channel in NC. We watched it whenever no
> games were on. I loved Joe Kendra and Deadly
> women. The Oxygen channel has some of the same
> type of shows, but not as good. A lot of the shows
> were on religious nuts. Jim Jones is on the other
> channel tomorrow, can’t think what it is now.

When we lost Time Warner Cable after it sold out to Spectrum/Charter Communications my cable channels lost quite a few good programs. I'm still reeling over that. The Military History Channel I used to get is now offered in a separate package. When I tried to add it back was told if I did that I would lose some of the current programs already receive and it would cost me a hefty sum more than what I'm paying right now. I was thinking WTF? I only wanted the Military Channel for an occasional program not for regular watching. The one I really wanted to see was on General Sherman's march to the sea. My great grandfather was a close confidante and messenger of his. It is difficult finding any war history on my great grandpa because he was also a spy in Alan Pinkerton's intelligence operations during the Civil War. He infiltrated the Confederate Army to bring back intelligence to the North. Pinkerton's Intelligence division was the precursor to the FBI, the CIA, and other intelligence divisions of the government that exist today.. Alan Pinkerton set the blueprints for those. Including scrubbing the military records of its intelligence operatives as if they never served at all. Mossad and other Intelligence agencies around the world do this. There is no military record attached to my great grandpa for the Civil War. That is the only explanation I have been able to surmise. It was concealed by design for government records to protect the identities of those who served as operatives. When I watched Munich, about the men who Mossad hired to assassinate those who murdered the planners behind the attack on the Israeli Olympic athletes in 1973, the Mossad intelligence agents were told they were as if they never existed if they accepted that assignment. That practice started with Alan Pinkerton's army of operatives during the Civil War.

> That Richard guy sounds very deranged, rescuing
> all the babies in pre existence, give me a break

I know, right?

If there *were* a baby in the pre-existence waiting to come to that family, it was a great service by the powers that be that Richard Worthington ended up in prison and be there for the rest of his life. His by then ex-wife was also given the gift of intuition by having her tubes tied.

Amyjo, we'll meet up some day!

Okey dokey! :)

The story about Richard Worthington was a big deal in Sandy at the time. Alta View was/is not far from where we lived (my ex is still there, and she also worked at Primary Childrens and lots of the staff there knew the doctor and others involved. It wasn't hard to find lots of different people who knew of him and also knew the nurse, who had only been working at the hospital for a couple of weeks.

There was so much activity from the police trying to get him under control and most of the area around the hospital was under police watch for a couple of days.

Stuff like that didn't happen in Sandy, at least in those days.

The guy was a crackpot.

Guess he forgot all those other Golden Rule teachings of "thou shalt not murder," "not covet," and "not bear false witness," and "love thy neighbor as thyself."

I used to go to an OB/GYN who worked at Alta View, but I don't think it was the same one. I can't even remember his name.

Dr. Clark is still practicing, according to the program he interviewed for on Investigation Discovery that aired last night for the first time.

What a shock though, for that poor guy, to go through that along with all the other people who were there at the time. It is something they will never forget.

All the stations were running the story and interrupted regular programming.

It was shocking.

Of course the guy would be angry and hold hostages. He figured that the hospital damaged his property.

Richard Worthington deal happened a long time ago...…

I now live in TX (since 1997, except for three years). I drive by the prison he was sent to down here every day going to work (Ramsey Unit, south of Houston). He hung himself in there. Pretty sure TDOCJ was about ready to send him back to UT I remember, as he was so deranged and psychotic.

Richard Worthington hanged himself inside his prison cell in Ely State Prison in Nevada. Not in Texas.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/320283/WORTHINGTON-HANGS-SELF-IN-NEVADA-PRISON-CELL.html

I stand corrected. Maybe it was that he attempted it here and got sent back to Utah and then to Ely, where he ultimately succeeded.

He was sent around the block. He was in New Mexico for a time, before being transferred to Ely where he hung himself.

He was suicidal before he became homicidal. His attorneys were trying to have him declared incompetent to stand trial, and then later used that to file appeals saying he wasn't competent to be convicted.

BS. He knew fully well what he was doing when he was doing it.. like any sociopath, he just didn't care who he hurt in the process.

The psychotic nutcase didn't care whose children he made orphans of, including his own.

After eight kids, one can hardly blame his wife for wanting her tubes tied.

You really have to understand the Mormon Culture to understand these crimes. I have been bingewatching Dateline shows, and while the producers do a very good job, the ones with Mormon overtones they often just don't get (including the Jodi Arias story.)

While the man in this particular case was a violent nutjob he also was incredibly naive.

It reminds me of a conversation I once had with my psycho father.

I had just told him that my mother, who already had nine children, had gone through menopause, and had finally divorced her abusive, deadbeat husband (my father) was going to have a hysterectomy.

He gave me an incredulous look, and asked me without a trace of irony in his voice, "Does this mean she doesn't want to have any more children?"


I didn't know quite how to answer that but finally replied, "No, I don't think she does."

At least he didn't hold anyone hostage.

Lois

I take your point. I'm mostly thinking about the huge amount of labor that it takes to raise children. I don't know how a father can spend any amount of time around his young family and not realize that, and not take his wife seriously if she says she's had enough.

I realize that the number of kids in a marriage is a negotiation, but after eight, nine, ten kids, you would think that anyone would be entitled to say, "enough."

I used to want six children, be a SAHM, with the white picket fence kind of deal.

By the time I became a mother of two, I was a single working parent. My children were latchkey kids, who had very structured lives at school and at home whether I was present or not because that was the era they were raised in ie, "It takes a village to raise a child," era. Thank god for where we lived because it had a strong support network for single parents and working two-parent families.

Whether raising one child, two children, or ten ... the amount of time devoted to child rearing is the same. It takes 110% and then some. If I had it to do all over again there may be some things I'd have done differently were hindsight 20/20. But not being a parent to my two delightful children is not one of them. They were my light and my joy.

As for wanting more children after raising two highly intelligent kids? Let's just say that abstinence was the best form of birth control for me. There was no way in hell I was going back to my ex so he could get me pregnant again and leave me high and dry like before. He couldn't handle fatherhood. In addition I was too busy parenting to find time to date, while working and caring for home and family.

Two children were my contribution to society. Plus the one I gave up for adoption when I was a teenager through LDSSS. Or rather the one that was spirited away by LDSSS. The cult was a baby brokerage. The unwed mothers that went through its doors were nothing more than a commodity to it, den of thieves that it was. I could have handled the adoption so much easier had they not gone to such lengths to erase every last vestige of the birth family. Something they did not inform me about when I went through its doors. I only learned about that aspect when I went to locate my birth son in 2005. Evil can't begin to describe the hell they put him through, the other adoptees in the LDS system, & the birth parents they totally ignored as well as the birth families of that era. Yet, we each have voices. They tried to silence us, but they did not succeed.

May the voices of those forgotten mothers and families, and their children echo and reverberate for generations to come condemning the thievery and debauchery of the LDS adoption system.

All children have the right to know where they come from, including their medical history. What they do with that information is up to them. Withholding it and pretending it doesn't exist and erasing it is damnable.

My birthson was lied to, manipulated, and deceived by his adoptive parents. He was sent on a mission to a country because he was told he would blend in with the natives because he was one of them. Not even close. His adoptive family like the cult, had his birth records at their fingertips. They knew his ethnic origins yet withheld it from him. He was denied his rightful heritage and lied to about what race he was/is. What kind of loving parents would do that to their child?

Evil cult.

This relates to recovery from mormonism in what way?

It's yet another example of what mormonism does to people. It makes them crazy.

Dave the Atheist Wrote:
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> It's yet another example of what mormonism does to
> people. It makes them crazy.

LDSinc has no monopoly on people who've convinced themselves that they KNOW the future.

The Bolsheviks committed mass murder in Russia because they KNEW how history was going to develop.

The Bolsheviks KNEW due to their study of Marx, who also KNEW.

And Marx KNEW how history would develop because he'd studied Hegel.

Marx made some people do some atrocious things, so it's okay that Mormonism does too.

That makes sense.

Yes, the news is out. Mormonism is the best joke in town.

No way!!

The best joke involves a bartender asking a horse, "Why the long face?"

Now that I think of it, when Irene LeBaron wrote her memoirs she recounted her husband's hideous reaction to being informed that she had had her tubes tied.

Irene had borne her husband, Verlan, 13 children. Verlan would eventually have 56 children, 28 boys and 28 girls.

Irene's doctor had told her that another pregnancy could very easily kill her. So she took his advice and had her tubes tied.

Verlan went ballistic. HOW COULD SHE DO THIS???? She was a daughter of perdition for sure now. Didn't she KNOW that there were lots of spirits just WAITING to be born in their special family. WAS SHE TRYING TO LIMIT THE SIZE OF VERLAN'S FAMILY KINGDOM.

Irene felt so bad that she went to another member of her group and asked to be blood atoned for her sin.

The other member told her blood atonement wasn't necessary under the circumstances and Verlan went on to increase his kingdom with his other wives.

Lois

He was another psycho of the Mormon psyche ward wing.

One of his daughters was featured on an Investigation Discovery episode, and fretted that she hoped she didn't inherit his sociopathy. She wanted to break the cycle in her family of generational lunacy.

He did use blood atonement on [at least] one of his wives. Or one of his sisters-in-law who was a journalist and stood up to him.

You are thinking of Ervil LeBaron, Verlan's brother.

Verlan was actually quite sane, except he believed it was his duty to marry as many women as possible and father as many children as possible. Verlan never claimed to have a revelation from God and never asked anyone to kill anyone.

You are also thinking of the Lafferty brothers who DID murder their jounalilst SIL.

What fascinates me about Mormonism is how it can make good people do bad things, because they think it is the will of the Lord.

So Ervil LeBaron got his followers to kill for him. These followers were otherwise good people trying to do the will of the Lord.

On the other hand, maybe this isn't such crazy behavior by modern standards of right and wrong.

Good men kill for their country all the time. We call them war heros.

So why is it so hard for me to understand that OTHER good men are willing to kill for the Lord -- or the Lord's spokesman, which amounts to the same thing.

Lois

loislane Wrote:
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>...
> What fascinates me about Mormonism is how it can
> make good people do bad things, because they think
> it is the will of the Lord.
.
"With or without [religion] you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

- Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate in Physics

Richard Worthington was the brother of Kathy Worthington, a lesbian exmo who was active in the Salt Lake LGBT community and in the exmormon community. Her website, Mormon No More, helped many many people resign their memberships in TSCC. Prior to that, I think very few people were aware that they had the legal right to resign their membership. Instead, they would ask their bishops to "remove their name from the records" which they usually wouldn't do without a "court of love". Kathy changed things. I'll be honest, she could be abrasive, but she was usually right. I'm grateful to her in many ways.

"Out of the darkness, into the light."

She sounds like the polar opposite of her lunatic brother.

Many of us on this board were helped to resign by Kathy’s site, and often by Kathy directly. She was kind and gracious with her assistance to me and others, and her death was a real loss to our community.

I'm one of those who is grateful to Kathy as she made it possible to resign from the cult.

Kathy encouraged me during my exit, too. She was a lovely person.

I can't tell you how many stories I've heard of Mormons (both fathers and mothers), including my wife, who had some sort of dream or premonition about how many redheads, or males, or blue eyes, or whatever they would have. They would keep on having kids until they met their arbitrary quota.

One missionary told me that his mother had 13 children before she finally got the dark-haired, blue-eyed son she was expecting.

My wife almost died going for that redheaded girl she saw in her dream. In her dream the girl was supposed to be her first child; not her last. That redheaded daughter, now a very bitter and vindictive adult, may still be the death of my wife, figuratively speaking, of course.

FWIW - My wife's six children are from her first marriage. I would have said "no mas" after her doctor recommended she stop after her fourth child.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2019 12:59PM by GregS.

I don't know how I missed seeing this post the first time around.

Wow, just wow.

I just got back from City Creek, stopped in at a new counter-service restaurant, featuring fresh fresh fresh everything. In comes a family of 5, two mid-20ish parents, both tall, athletic, health conscious looking, and three kids, that looked like ages 0.5, 1.5, and 2.5.

It made me tired just watching them. I figured high odds they were Mo, since it was the Lard's Mall. Mormonism encourages neurotic behavior WRT having and raising children

Nothing will age parents faster than having children in rapid succession. They don't even realize it until after the younguns are grown up. And suddenly it's like, wth just happened?

The years fly by so fast. Raising children seem to make them fly even faster because you don't notice the time slipping away before it does. So busy just keeping up with everything. Schedules, work, home. Aie yai yai.

As I recall, my doc asked (& received) DWs permission to clip me, I think that's good policy- procedure.

What is the name of the show?

Yes. Which show? I’m having trouble finding it.

It premiered April 20th. I don't know what it was titled because I don't have TV guide. The program caught my attention while surfing primarily because it was about a Mormon family out of Salt Lake City. Otherwise I would've watched something else.

You can try going through the ID web site to see if you can find it on one of its various series. It will air again. ID features so many episodes that if you miss one it may be a good while before it repeats again, but they do eventually.

If you have a TV Guide, you can check listings yourself for the evening of April 20th.

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/tv-shows/