I picked up my daughter for lunch on Saturday, and we saw the mishies talking to someone on the sidewalk at the edge of campus. I commented on it, and she went on a rant about how they are on campus all the time and pestering people. That her friends all joke and complain about the efforts they have to go to in order to avoid these guys, like changing directions and walking the long way around buildings in order to avoid them. She said a number of her friends are Asian and/or foreign students who are "too nice" to be "rude" to the mishies, and/or fall for their official appearance given the neckties and name tags.

Given our family history, she is pretty well inoculated against the missies, but she said they make her feel awkward and uncomfortable too. She's a sophomore now, but last year she was only 17 (i.e. a child), and apparently having to fend off mishies. The campus is a school, but it's also their home. I know I don't have tell anyone here, but no one should have to deal with this sort of thing at all, let alone on a regular basis.

I teach at a different state university, and AFAIK we don't have a problem with mishies. I'm surprised to learn that they run rampant at a different state school.

My son reports there are missionaries frequently on his university campus up in Seattle. They are looking for the lonely and the first time away from home students that are easier prey for these vultures.

it's weird because the mishies are often lonely and depressed and away from home for the first time, putting them in the same category as the students

This is not lost on me. And the reality is that my daughter and most of her friends are groups of girls that under "normal" circumstances could or should be free to flirt and meet cute boys, etc. But these are not just cute boys; they're full-time salesmen for a religious cult. She says two of her girl friends and one guy friend have fallen for the meet-to-take-the-lessons spiel because they just think it's an excuse to get together like you'd get together with any cute boy. She managed to talk the two girls into skipping the meetings, but for the guy it got very awkward when the mishies discovered that he thought they were cute boys. And, of course, the mishies think he's the "problem," and not that the problem is that they are invading his world, and shouldn't be doing so (IMO).

Let them know that this is inappropriate. If they don't take you seriously, go to school administration and be more insistent.

My grandson attends high school on a junior college campus. Mormon missionaries accosted him there last week.

These kids need to be left alone to do their homework and to study for tests. Religious fanatics need to stay away.

I agree with Cheryl. If a number of students feel that they need to take a different route, something is wrong. She should see if something can be done about it. Apart from that, she might try just not responding to them at all as she walks by. If they willfully impede her path, I would think that would be a cause for complaint.

There are aggressive salespeople at the kiosks at my local mall. I try to ignore them as I pass by. The most I will do is shake my head "no" at them, or say, "No, thanks" or "Not interested."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2019 04:22PM by summer.

The first time I ever met Mormon missionaries was over 40 years ago on a college campus. The Elders had gotten permission from the university to set up a table in the student union and attempt to interest students in Mormonism and in taking the discussions.

The university also gave similar permission to representatives of other religions and campus religious groups, so the Mormon missionaries were not receiving special permission to do this that was denied to others.

If that college took tax money, it involves forced public support of cultism. I don't think donors and taxpayers should have to see their hard earned money go for a cause that undermines students' ability to learn and operate freely on campus.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If that college took tax money, it involves forced
> public support of cultism. I don't think donors
> and taxpayers should have to see their hard earned
> money go for a cause that undermines students'
> ability to learn and operate freely on campus.

This was a state university rather than a private college. I have no idea what kind of policies it might have today, but at that time, years ago when I was a student there, the university required that any student organization had to be recognized as an official campus organiation by the university in order to function on campus. Various religious and other types of organizations at the time gained such recognition and were allowed to advertise on campus, meet in campus buildings, have outside speakers come in and give talks on campus, and have tables with literature in the student union. I wasn't aware of a Mormon student group on campus, but perhaps the university allowed the missionaries to have a table that day in the student union as a kind of extension of the spirit of these policies.

Members of the more evangelical-minded Christian student groups also felt free to engage in one-to-one proselyting on campus. For example, members of Campus Crusade for Christ often carried with them a pamphet by their founder, Bill Bright, called "The Four Spiritual Laws". When they found opportunities to engage fellow students in conversations about the necessity of accepting Jesus for salvation, they could hand out a copy of "The Four Spiritual Laws" which would reinforce what they said. A number of these Christian groups had fairly large memberships and a lively presence on the campus.

My university let recognized student groups set up a table in the student union at designated times during the school year. I never minded those tables because the people sitting there left you alone if you left them alone. If you were interested, you approached them.

We had a fundie "fire and brimstone" preacher come through about once a year. He was rather well known for the area schools. He would stand on a wall in the courtyard outside of the student union and preach. The students would snicker at him as they walked by. But he never stopped anyone nor accosted anyone.

Annoying, yes. But at least students weren't hampered from going to class and they could probably avoid his ravings. They might have to find new routes or alternative places to sit and study, however.

yes let's just get rid of the First Amendment to please Cheryl. if your beloved grandson can't tell them "Not Interested" then he needs to grow a pair . How will he be able to deal with big city panhandlers if he can't tell a Mormon Missionary " No" If college students are such wimps these days it's their fault not some annoying religious nutter

All of these schools and colleges need security. Campus police have a right to ask any visitor for ID. If they don't have it or if they don't have good reason to use the campus, they can and often should be told to leave and they can be banned from reentry.

Shame on you for insulting my grandson. He's done nothing wrong, not to you nor to anyone else. your assumption is rude and uncalled for. I didn't tell you how he reacted, but you used your mind reading skill to imagine it.

Why did I bring this event to light? To show that mormon missionaries put this stunt on other campuses at late as last week.

A pubic university police officer has actually no business asking for ID unless they have probable cause a crime has been commited . I don't need a "good reason" to walk about public property . I may do it just to kill time or for no reason at all . if I am minding my own business and not disrupting anything then I have every right to be on public property. I do not need to be a student or faculty to go walking about a public university . When I lived close to the University of Utah I walked on campus all the time because it was a nice place to take a walk . No ID needed .

Pubic ? Oops PUbLic A private school can do pretty much what they want about visitors but not a public university

I am an adjunct lecturer at a university. I have twice been accosted by fellow faculty in the faculty office whose political Jews are hostile to mine. They make me feel quite uncomfortable. To whom do I complain?

Views not Jews

Darn autocorrect

Anon for this Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am an adjunct lecturer at a university. I have
> twice been accosted by fellow faculty in the
> faculty office whose political Jews are hostile to
> mine. They make me feel quite uncomfortable. To
> whom do I complain?

To anybody you'd like. To the dean of faculty and research, to the university provost, to the university president, the board of trustees. You can complain to the governor, the legislature, your U.S. senators. You can write a letter to the editor of the campus paper, or call into a local talk radio show. Heck, you can post anonymously on RFM.

You have many fora to complain in and a constitutionally protected right to free speech. So do your colleagues.

But this problem isn't about forcing taxpayers to foot the bill for religious nuts. Church and state problems are messier than simple disagreements which make us uncomfortable.

Who said life would always be comfortable . if you can't stand up to this person then really you have absolutly no business being a college instructor . When did our Universities turn into such wuusyvilles?

The university can regulate time, place and manner of public speaking, but it can't outright ban speech on public sidewalks. That pesky First Amendment.

This doesn't sound like a problem that requires a government solution. The students just need to grow a spine. If they are "too nice", all the more reason to practice being assertive, and what better group to practice on than Mo missionaries!!

Every school required visitors to check in at the office and get official permission to be on the walkways within the campus unless they had an appointment slip or other official document proving why they should be there. The halls and sidewalks are not there for public use. They're there for students and school employees and those with permission to use them.

Unofficial strangers on school campuses have murdered students and caused other kinds of havoc.

Free speech isn't the issue. Freedom for students to come and go to classes and to their rooms, to study and socialize, to live their lives without worrying about being accosted is the issue.

This issue doesn't need a government solution. It simply needs better involvement from management and campus security.

Freedom of Speech is very much at issue . if any invidual or group acts at a public place within the restraints of time place and manner then the have the freedom to spout just about any content they want

Not everyone has a right to give speeches or sell religion wherever they happen to be. If they go into classrooms or confront students, they can be told to leave.

If it’s a public university, then at least the sidewalks along any public streets on campus are public property and free speech rights apply. They can’t go into the buildings without permission, but sidewalks are open to the public.

Rules may be different at primary schools because the students are minors. At universities, virtually all the students are adults.

The university I was at banned smoking on the entire campus, and a suit was filed saying they had no right to ban smoking on the sidewalks along public streets on campus. The school lost the suit.

Brother Jerry is correct. At a public college/university, we can't prevent people from coming on campus and speaking. We can enforce that they can't pursue people, they can't prevent movement, they can't disrupt classes, etc.

Just check the news cycle from a couple of weeks ago RE: UC Berkeley about how quickly it all goes wrong. No one involved was even a student.

The University I attended was in the middle of a major metropolitan area. The city owned every street on the campus. Campus police would never have been able to stop everyone on campus to verify they were students.

It would not have been practical.

They most certainly have the right on a public university to spout whatever they want as long as it is in the legal restraints of time place and manner .It is called the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution and it does not have an exception for what you or I find icky or disagreeable.

The students don’t need protection, they need organization. They should make it a group project to educate the mishies in the true nature and history of their church. The mishies are on their turf. If they can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Yet, many in the public complain if *everyone* isn't allowed free and open access to the campuses and students.

They either need to expect violence or they need to accept that schools have a right to know who is on the campus and why. The police could show up at my inner city school within five minutes and they could have an intruder handcuffed within and another five minutes.

There are very scary and dangerous people who like to hang around where their are young students. I care about kiddie rights over intruder rights and so do others who devote their lives to serving kids' needs and not spouting clap-trap on the internet.

We were discussing public universities not elementary schools What a grade school can restrict is much more because the students are children who by their very nature need a much higher degre of protection. College student don't and if a college student cannot handle a different idea then I would suggest they either cowboy up or withdraw form that university pronto

On the university campus around here, the Mishies are rarely spotted. More likely to see them at a grocery store or at the adjacent Institute building or ugly LDS Church building.

Every Spring, just like the dandelions, Brother Jedd and Sister Somebody appear to shout at the co-eds, accuse passers-by of awful late night actions (with and without a person of the opposite sex) and spout their certainty of the way to the absolute truth in heaven. They can draw quite a crowd. To stand and listen to them, however, could put an observer at risk for being accused of unrighteous behavior...definitely not for the "meek" and "too nice" among us. However, they are very entertaining.

I assume that public schools are like airports where you can't block access? Until you get to the place you have to have a ticket to get through security. I imagine schools might have to start doing that kind of thing if they are regularly invaded by dangerous/annoying people: make it so you have to be an enrolled student to get to certain areas such as inside buildings, etc.?

State university they have every right to be there.

Private university can make up its own rules.

Everyone who entered the campus had to have ID and proof that they had reason to be there.

Chain link fencing surrounded the campuses and everyone went to the office to check in before going to the inner reaches of the campuses.

Any school employee had a right to ask, "May I help you? No. Well, you need to leave or get permission to stay by going to the office. Shall I walk you there?"

Creeps have exposed themselves on school campuses, accosted students, kidnapped them, and done damage to school property. The state schools are not there for free public use with no oversight and no rules for outsiders.

If that's state, that's out of bounds.

I'd be happy to take the case.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2019 02:55PM by lulu.

I hope,you are not talking about a public university . if I'm walking about a state pulic university I can do this anytime I damn well feel like it unless there is some curfew imposed on everyone student faculty employee or not . PUBLIC university get it ?

State buildings also have employees who can refuse to admit anyone if they don't have reason to be there.

Universities are not the same as public streets. Although the campuses might be open and accessible, if someone posses a threat or causes a problem, they can be told to leave and not to return.

Visitors have only limited use of the facilities.

" If someone causes a threat or a problem " File that under No Kidding . The subject was until you moved the goalposts several times Religious groups on a public university campus within the regulatory constraints of time place and manner . I value the First Amendment but it seems you want security, police and teachers being able to ask anyone they want what their business is and being able to ask for ID with zero probable cause. I would rather live in a free country than a police state no matter what . A public university is just that public and I can go quietly walking around the campus and buildings anytime I feel like it .

That was the subject from the beginning. Groups which sit and chat quietly with each other and don't confront or distract students have never been the point.

But of course these religious types DO interfere with normal campus activity and that is wrong.

LOL. Cheryl can be a first-rate goal post mover when she wants to be.

"The subject was until you moved the goalposts several times Religious groups on a public university campus within the regulatory constraints of time place and manner ."

Exactly. And state universities are government institutions, so the First Amendment clearly applies. They can have standards for when, where and how people are allowed to express views on campus ("time, place, and manner" in legalese), but those standards have to be reasonable, and they can't simply ban religious representatives outright.

This question is of course quite simple to resolve. Go to the nearest state university or college and tell them you want them to ban religious representatives from campus. Report back here what they say.

If people challenged these Doomsday Cult recruiters with serious questions about the abusive CULT they represent, every time they showed up, maybe the Cog Dis would drive them off.

I believe the U of Washington is a tobacco free campus, I sure hope so.

He said that he thinks the mormon missionaries were there for only one day. He said JWs, 7th Day Adventists, and one or two Christian groups are there often.

He said that most students won't tell them no and keep walking as he does. He said if someone hands them a flier or other material, they usually take it. Then only some of them throw it in trash bins which overflow with it. The rest blows around as litter. He said when he has time, he'll write a letter to the dean and say that these groups should at least pay to have their litter cleaned up.

January 2019 they were at LSU in Baton Rouge, just outside the union.