This is my perspective. I'm not saying another perspective is wrong, or not as good. It's just that in the real world, perspectives can vary.

Like a good mormon, my TBM daughter has done genealogy all her adult life. On the south-of-the-border side of the equation, she got back to my grandparents and hit a brick wall, because of the lack of documentation.

I once saw my dad's parents' bible, and on one of the fly leafs, someone had written in the names and DOBs of their 13 children, only five of whom made to adulthood: my dad and four younger brothers. The youngest uncle had possession of the bible. I have no idea where that bible is now. It is definitely not in the hands of a mormon.

It is likely that no other records exist regarding the births and deaths of my dad's eight siblings who died during childhood. That's just the way it was at the beginning of the 20th Century in old Mexico. But it's okay because during the millennium all will be made clear...


I took Jesus at his word: Let the dead bury the dead. Contrary to some opinions, I do not believe that anything any forebearer did reflects on me. Not the good, not the bad. I don't think that if there were a final judgment, that whose of Adam's descents we came through rates a flying Wallenda. If there were a ghawd, and he could be swayed by name-dropping, I would not have any respect for him.

There is a possibility that an atom or two that spent some time in one of my granddad's bodies are currently in my body. Could be an atom that was in Hitler's body, or Jeffrey Dahmer's body is currently in my body. Doesn't mean a thing.

Genealogy as a hobby? Go for it! I play golf, which is probably a way more stupid hobby than genealogy.

But here's the thing... I really like this board. And I like its purpose. And I believe that that purpose is frustrated when we spend time on things other than recovering and helping others recover from mormonism.

Sure, because bonds of friendship arise between compatible individuals, there is going to be irreverent horseplay on occasion (okay, a lot!), but I think that when "strangers" see this, it actually helps the ambiance. Seeing people like each other for no other reason but that they do is something not found in mormonism where you're supposed to like everyone...

I sincerely believe that repeated cycles of preaching for ghawd, detailing genealogical finds, accusing people not able to defend themselves of horrid behavior, dishing out details personal relationships gone bad, planning for retirement and the recitation of medical dramas completely out of the blue are not part of RfM's mission. And certainly vicious, vindicative name calling isn't either. To read "go to hell" directed here from one person here to another... I still don't get that.

Would a casual visitor to RfM be impressed with the usual juvenile, jokey attitude I present? Probably not. If I were told to cut it out, I might, but then I might not. But I know I don't have the right to inflict damage to the character and mission of RfM. But I sincerely believe that I am ready, willing and able to help people out. All without ladling out repeated tedious folderal about ... you know the list...

I'm getting to be a broken record. But I like this place!!

You have broken a lot of records senor elder.

The parson's pie can always use a little chili picoso.

Your demeanor has never made no le hace to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2019 09:43PM by Shummy.

Shummy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You have broken a lot of records senor elder.
>

Yeah, I'm a broken record. That's what I got out of that...


> The parson's pie can always use a little chili
> picoso.
>

I googled parson's pie to hunt for a hidden meaning. Couldn't find one. But yes, almost everything can use a little chili picoso. Other than that, I'm at a loss for meaning.


> Your demeanor has never made no le hace to me.
>

Either nothing I say means anything to you, or a complicated double negative: my demeanor has never made it doesn't matter to you...

Obviously, I'm not much of one for cryptics. If those were lumps, I'll take them.

Hey, I do tend to abuse the lingo.

My cryptic spainglish is only a feeble attempt at humor.

I coined the pie reference as metaphor for uh, preachiness.

No lumpiness intended amigo.

Thank you for that!

I find myself slightly embarrassed at this pass, but I am sincere.

Sometimes doing what one thinks is right makes one blush a little.

> I'm getting to be a broken record.

No worries. That happens to all of us when we get old!

My kids say I’m a broken record, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2019 10:43PM by kathleen.

Tienes razon.

No hay de que.

It gets frustrating when people kind of highjack the board for their personal gratification, having very little to do with the mission here. Especially when it seems to be only about some kind of bragging rights.

Devoted Exmo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It gets frustrating when people kind of highjack
> the board for their personal gratification, having
> very little to do with the mission here.
> Especially when it seems to be only about some
> kind of bragging rights.


Amen... Its really pathetic. I'm glad you said this, I feel the same.

And one more thing to add to what you said Devoted Exmo...

it seems like the people who actually do have very valid things

to brag about, don't. Its only the insecure ones who feel like

they need to blow their own horns. I guess its a desperate ploy

to seem likable or worthy to have a friend. Sad.

I traced my ancestors back to Adam. I'm all done.

You don't say!

The only thing I've heard of that is comparable is men who say they can trace their priesthood back to Jesus.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't say!
>
> The only thing I've heard of that is comparable is
> men who say they can trace their priesthood back
> to Jesus.

People... hahhahahhahahahahhahahhahaha.

You've never heard the mormon claim of tracing their ancestors back to Adam ? Get real !

I was always told the birth certificates were lost during the Flood. But maybe that was just what my family said to account for our humble provenance.

Oh boy. That's a new one. I know a lot of people claim to have their genealogy traced back to Adam via a well known pseudo linkage. But I've never heard the "records were lost due to the flood" claim. So funny!

I'm with those who wonder what's the point in trying to figure out all of mankind via written records. There's just no way to have recorded even a small portion of those ever born. It's all so ridiculous.

BTW, I also subscribe to the notion that all important people are my cousins. That makes me pretty fabulous!

DevMo, I must confess that I made up that stuff about the flood.

It has the ring of authenticity, though, doesn't it?

Absolutely hilarious! I wish I'd thought of it.

My MIL. She often boasts of it as though it makes her among the elect. However, to somebody inclined to believe in the Biblical Adam, wouldn't everybody, by definition, be direct descendants of Adam?

Somebody with Neanderthal DNA could claim to go back beyond Adam!

What was the name of the King of the Neanderthals...?

I kinda would be impressed by a genealogy chart that started with Lucy Australopithecus of Olduvai Gorge!

Imagine the foresight of Lucy or Dr. Ugg, who delivered her first baby, for keeping record of that birth, knowing that future generations will want to trace their lineage back to Lucy. It's not like they had anything more pressing on their minds...like surviving to the ripe old age of 30.

When my sis had her dna done by 23 & me, we had a lot of Neanderthal dna. I think it's so cool!!! I know, I'm weird.

My mom has more Neanderthal DNA than 65% people using 23 & Me, where I have more than only 28%.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea of my mom being more of a knuckle-dragger that me.

Call her up and say, "Ugg, Mom. Me son, Gerg."

LOL!!!

We had 85% more than most users.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only thing I've heard of that is comparable is
> men who say they can trace their priesthood back
> to Jesus.

I did not know that Jesus was ever identified as a kohain--which would mean that his father was a kohain too.

I never remember the subject being discussed before.

Something startlingly new, at least this is startlingly new to me!

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Contrary to some opinions, I do not believe
> that anything any forebearer did reflects on me.


I agree. My family is descended from some great people? We really slid down hill then, didn't we, being the ordinary, unexceptional folks we are.

Just like them pesky dinosaur bones LW.

Yup!

especially if you have something to work with--as in being in a line for which actual records are available. But unless you're in some elite royal line or a member of some weird secret society that has been keeping records for thousands of years (if such things exist), it seems like it's mostly going to turn out to be an exercise in futility.

For most people, once you get back 4 or 5 generations maximum, things are so sketchy that you really don't know what, if any, information you're getting is reliable. No living person can attest to anything that happened more than 100 years ago. People on the move to the new world were often escaping bad situations in the old world.

Names were changed frequently and freely.

Children were adopted without acknowledgement of adoption. So even if you can find records showing that Wilbur Bigsnott, the Duke of Boogershire, is your ancestor, it could actually be that you have zero Bigsnott DNA in you.

The Church genealogy program is one of the most obviously pointless busywork/make-work projects ever. It was already known at the outset that the ostensible goal (getting the names of all people who ever lived and died on planet earth and doing their "sacred" ordinances by proxy) was a complete impossibility. The message is: " Hey, spend countless hours of your life doing this to prove that you're a good person, all the while knowing that God has an alternative way of instantly accomplishing the same task comprehensively in a way that doesn't require your input at all."

It's like being asked to volunteer to spend the entirety of your precious Saturday shoveling cowsh*t at a stake farm, while knowing that they have mechanical equipment that they can use to complete the same task in less than 30 minutes and have paid farm workers who can do it. "Thanks for the pointless busywork, church leaders! I was wondering how I could demonstrate my unselfishness and massive virtue until you came up with the brilliant idea of having me waste an entire Saturday shoveling sh*t for no good reason."

I think I'm seeing a pattern in how the church operates.

There is an added benefit to genealogy for the church. If you don't do genealogy, those who do can look down on you and try to make you feel guilty.

There is an additional benefit to genealogy. I have great grandparents who lost 3 girls over a five year period who all died shortly after child birth. They named each one Anna Leena. I showed this to our daughter. She was so touched by it that she named her rescue cat Leena.

What's the kitty cat's temple name? Cuz that's gotta go on the records, too!

The temple name is Putty Tat.

I could care less about anyone beyond those I knew personally or those who died prematurely, etc. I've never had an interest in genealogy and I DID FEEL GUILTY about not wanting anything to do with it when I was mormon.

When I was about to get married, my mother decided that she was going to ask all members of the family to donate so much money to genealogy who were old enough to be earning an income. We had a HUGE argument about it. I was one of the ONLY GRANDCHILDREN who was working regularly. My 2 older siblings and I are the oldest of the grandchildren. The rest are 4 years younger than I am or more. They obviously weren't working. My sister was in college, as was her husband, and they had 3 children. My older brother wouldn't have contributed. I told my mother NO. My mother did it for the right reasons and she enjoyed it. My notorious aunt, her sister, now has the bragging rights of I don't know what. She is always talking about our ancestors. In fact, she met a long lost cousin who was going to Alaska last year and told her to look up my daughter. My daughter was like, "Who are you???"

I could care less if I'm related to anyone great. I was shocked when I came here and found out if you had pioneer relatives, you were mormon royalty. NEWS TO ME! I don't even know their stories, though I've heard some mentioned in testimonies at family reunions from cousins who used to be the wildest of the bunch of us. I finally visited the cemetery in Trenton, utah, where my great-grandmother and great-grandfather are buried a few years ago. I'm 61. Gives you a good idea of how important I found it.

I go to my parents' grave and my grandparents' graves. I KNEW THEM.

Otherwise, ancestry.com is never getting any money out of me.

(i.e. the "Prophets") felt bad when the "Teachings of the Prophets" series of lesson manuals came out several years ago and all of the plural wives of the great plyg prophets were airbrushed out of the historical record.

Most of the Mormons who can claim as their ancestor one of the great plyg prophets (Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor and Wilford Woodruff), or one of the great plyg Apostles, can only trace their heritage to one of the lesser wives (i.e. those who have been historically disowned for all practical purposes).

The lesson manuals and all modern teaching materials about those great plyg guys pretend that they were all monogamists. Only the wives who would have been recognized under a monogamist system are recognized. If the official first wife died and they married a second wife legally, that second wife would also be recognized. But all the others are not even mentioned in the lesson manuals. The lesson manuals will show photos of the great plyg prophets with their official family and leave out the dozens of other children who were born to the lesser wives.

The church has essentially turned a huge percentage of its BIC members into baastaards. Literally. The illegitimate progeny of the disowned and illegitimate practice of polygamy.

So next time someone brags about being descended from one of the great plyg leaders of Mormonism, you can ask: "Oh, really! Are you one of the legitimate descendants or are you in one of the b a s t a r d lines?"

(Full disclosure: I'm from one of the b a s t a r d lines myself. Nothing to boast about. My ancestor who was a lesser wife most likely supported herself and her children living in a shack on crappy land that the great plygmeister graciously allowed her to farm.)

She ran the family farm with her children while her husband took the other 2 wives to St. George to live most of the time. I should learn more about her story as she really had a tough life. She had 2 deaf children, one of whom was my grandfather. My mother was the oldest child and she didn't learn to speak until they moved in with this great grandmother. My mother learned to sign first.

Reading "In Sacred Loneliness" was HORRIBLE. I had to quit reading before I was done.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reading "In Sacred Loneliness" was HORRIBLE. I had
> to quit reading before I was done.

Hard to get through but worth it. Incidentally, it is one of my polygamist sister's favorite books.

I recoiled at the wives' treatment and hardships yet my sister found solace and comfort in these stories.

When I was a believing member, I felt guilty about my lack of interest in doing genealogy. At the same time, I loved to see the pictures of the ancestors my dad had found. I was amazed that I was related to these people, none of them royalty.

Some family members spend so much time on it, it feels like they care more about the dead people than the living. I think its a fun hobby for those who enjoy it, but family and friends shouldn't be neglected. The church puts a lot of pressure on members to do it.

I'm too embarrassed of all the ne'r-do-wells who surely lurk upstream from me.

Mom n Pop were pretty good, and that's all I care to know.

severe culture shock if they ever had a chance to spend time with an ancestor 3 or 4 generations back (not counting the shock of such an encounter occurring in the first place).

Even an ordinary conversation would be difficult. So many of the expressions that we use today did not even exist 150 years ago and slang meanings would be misunderstood at every turn.

"That's so cool!"

--->"It feels like room temperature to me, young lady. Not particularly cool to the touch."

"That's gnarly!"
--->"No it most certainly is not gnarly. The edges are all quite straight and the surface is smooth. You certainly are an unlicked cub, now are you not!"

"That is wickedly hawt!"

--> It is neither wicked nor even warm, let alone hot. Have you been gathering mushrooms in the woods?"

But that's just language.

I always like to imagine the horror and mayhem that would ensue if a perfect copy of Joseph Smith as he was in February 1844 were to make an appearance at a 21st century LDS Sacrament Meeting and maybe spend a few weeks with the members.

Instead of the awe-inspiring experience of spending time with the great prophet that many Mormons might fantasize about, it would almost certainly turn into a devastatingly disappointing experience.

For starters, I suspect that instead of singing "Praise to the Man" most of the womenfolk would soon be trying to hide and avoid eye contact. Children would probably start referring to him as "Uncle Gropey".

If he started spewing out some ad hoc doctrine in F&T meeting, people would be rolling their eyes. "Really, Brother Smith? There's an angel standing in this room right now and only those of us who are worthy can see the angel with our spiritual eyes? And the angel wants all of the women between the ages of 13 and 33 to meet with you privately to receive a special ordinance? We already know this gimmick. We figured it out when we were kids and heard the story of the Emperor's new clothes. And the planet next to Kolob is called Bolok? Seriously?"

when they spoke in tongues during meetings! In the book "In Sacred Loneliness," the wives of the leaders would get together and one of them would speak in tongues and one would interpret, often singing the interpretation.

I wonder what the congregation would think then!!

I believe Warren Jeffs is a good indicator of what would happen if JS came back from the dead to visit modern day mormons. I've told my parents and many other TBMs that Jeffs is much more like JS than any modern day mainstream mormon "prophet". They get pretty defensive but deep down they know it's true.

I was on the geneology site years ago, looking up my ancestors and low and behold I actually saw "Old King Cole" in someones
generational ancestor sheet. It sort of reminded me of someone who shall not be named on this board, as in, it sounds like
a person here would use that for bragging rights. You never know.

I'd love to be a descendant of Ole King Cole. I hear he was a merry old soul.

That certain someone reminds me of a friend I had in grade school. She was just your average white girl whose father was in the army. She was born in Hawaii when her father was stationed there, but I met her years later. She told me she was Hawaiian and that her uncle was Louis Armstrong.

Oh, and thanks to some basic genealogy, Shummy and I figured out we're related. Different branches on a very polygamist tree.

I'm just a random weed...

As I was hitting "post message" on my sad, wistful "I'm just a random weed" post (admit it, you teared up, right?) it hit me!!!

Who wants to help me establish the Noble Order of The Sons of Adam? That you are qualified to be a member has already been established! Both the Pope and Rusty Nelson agree: You're in!

No joking about Adam, please. He's a cousin of mine.

I'll remember (bitterly) that you joked the day I was inspired to create an organization that I could finally join... <sigh>

I think you mean "aspired" in this context.

After all, you "inspire" us every day.

A twisted tale indeed olderelder.

It was in fact an unseemly bled of polygamy, polyandry, and quickie marriage/divorce all orchestrated by none other than Brigham Dung.

Glad to see you're still vertical, cuz

Interesting. To me it's just what you do (and you'll LOVE it, dammit!). I still do it, although in my own way - not the typical save-jillions-of-names-of-people-I-know-nothing-about Mormon type of way. But, maybe it really doesn't matter that much. Now you have me thinking...

Hey! If you enjoy and no one bleeds to death because of it, ya gotta go for it!

Just, please, no prattling!

I do enjoy it, the way I work on it, but still...there are many other things I could be doing that might benefit my family even more.

I'm prattling??

I'd personally draw the line when you start going on about how you are related to Xenu.

Cathy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I do enjoy it, the way I work on it, but
> still...there are many other things I could be
> doing that might benefit my family even more.
>
> I'm prattling??

No, you don't prattle! You've been blessedly calm and normal! I just don't want you to start prattling, lest things go south for you.

I'll take my chances. Sometimes I do go on a bit. Let 'em head south. I can take it.