https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/05/01/transgender-weightlifter-mary-gregory-smashes-womens-world-records/23720231/

My buddies and I were talking about this last night. It was quite the lively debate!

The 2 main opinions were:

1. Totally fair, full stop.
2. Obviously not fair, who are you kidding?

Curious what your thoughts are on this. Did Mary Gregory legitimately break these world records or is it a sham?

All of my friends and I have no issues with anyone transitioning (except kids, of course). Adults can and should do what makes them the most happy.

But then for a biological man to compete against biological women in something like weightlifting?

That is a male, don't even try to argue with me. Isn't this considered cheating?

Biological male, yes. But she identifies as a woman.

Not cheating because they don't use biology as the criterion for what qualifies someone as a woman. They awarded her the records.

Biology, physiology, and anatomy tells us that men and women differ in many ways physically.

To have someone "tell" us, they identify as female to enter a strength competition for women is wrong..

I believe for national sports organizations and the Olympics now have women prove their women-ness thru a series of physicals and blood tests...proving their BODY is female, not just their "feelings"

Outrageous!!

My skirts are in an uproar!

Are you kilting at windmills?

+1!

Please stop. He is a Male and always will be. He is not a her.

You seem to be an advocate for a B&W world.

The Technicolor world is certainly way more messy but it does have its attractions.

Not at all. But this trans fad is just that. And it is getting out of control.

So, if it's a fad, you can simply choose to not become trans and let everyone else do whatever they want to do. Easy peasy.

Devoted Exmo Wrote:
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> So, if it's a fad, you can simply choose to not
> become trans and let everyone else do whatever
> they want to do. Easy peasy.

It doesn't work like that. They wish to change the entire language, will abuse you if they use pronouns they don't like or have a binary restrooms.

And they are producing propaganda to ensure it becomes more and more common in coming generations. According to these cultural Marxists, you're evil if you're cis-male.

Or there is the other view, which is to pretend gender doesn't exist and men and women are physically the same, and it's all a social construct. In which case, make everyone non-binary, gender-fluid or whichever identity is cooked up this week.

For those who wish to deplete the world's population, it is also a method of voluntary sterilization in some cases.

"Cultural Marxists" again, the conspiracy of people who planted fake evidence on Neanderthals and Denisovan DNA 50,000 years ago.

Now they're in gymnasiums and bathrooms? What are we to do?

Erm, no. Cultural Marxists are a contradictory bunch, whose main job is to make society unworkable.

Such contradictions (or dialectics? LOL) include denying there are different origins for different people, and then pleading for positive discrimination for some of those groups they deny are different. Or in this case pleading that women can be equal to men physically, and that women can have penises and men can give birth. (Not making this up!)

By the way, did you work out that Denisovan and Neanderthal conundrum yet? That different species have contributed to different types of human... According to scientific evidence... But of course since the idea that Europeans and Asians are a bit different to Africans in some way is anathema to social justice warriors, so we can't admit that can we? After all race doesn't exist and humans from different parts of the world are physically and genetically indistinguishable, right?

Then there's the old cultural Marxist cherry about toxic masculinity and how dangerous it is... Pitched against the idea that any birth-assigned male can use female restrooms and showers if xyr/ze identifies as female.... Well you can see the consequences of that thinking in this thread! Wave goodbye to cis-female sports and spaces.

I now identify as gender-fluid. Jordan can be a boy or a girl's name, or that of a non-assigned person.

Next week, I think will identify as female for a while. I will take on all comers at female boxing, and insist to use the ladies' communal washing facilities. I don't intend to get any surgery.

Anything else is cis-het oppression, by people who uphold the gender binary. I take it you won't be prejudiced about any of this.

p.s. I am also intending to reassign my race like Rachel ?Doleziel and Martina Big. Maybe trans-species in the near-future.

You seriously didn't read the answer to your post on the Neanderthal/Denisovan nonsense? I guess your reappearance indicates that you didn't run into Occam after all.

Feel free to read--apologies ahead of time for the intrusion of science--and reply if you wish.

------------

Jordan's argument is that 1) races exist; 2) they are behaviorally and perhaps intellectually significant; and 3) Europeans arose from a combination of African with Neanderthal DNA while East Asians arose from a combination of African with Denisovan DNA.

Note the following.

First, "The analysis showed that Denisovans were much more closely related to Neanderthals than to Homo sapiens. . ." So one would expect that those who inherited either set of DNA would not differ very much. That leaves little room for claims that the "races" are significantly different, particularly because the distribution of Neanderthal genes, Denisovan genes, and a combination of the two are distributed along a normal curve rather than having any clear boundaries.

Second, "the new DNA sequence also shows that Native Americans and people from East Asia have more Neanderthal DNA, on average, than Europeans." It therefore makes no sense to say that Neanderthal DNA is what make the European "race." If that were true, Native Americans would be more European than Germans; and Fijians "whiter" than Britons.

https://www.archaeology.org/issues/60-1301/trenches/311-hominin-neanderthals-humans-siberia

Clearly those who believe in "cultural Marxism" would not last long if they ran into Occam in a dark alley.

Thanks for your opinion. You're just repeating yourself now, so unless you have something novel to contribute to the discussion you're just taking up thread space.

honklermaga Wrote:
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> Thanks for your opinion. You're just repeating
> yourself now, so unless you have something novel
> to contribute to the discussion you're just taking
> up thread space.

Trying to shut me up, eh? Not going to work, and I made several "novel" points there. Like most of your kind, you don't believe other people should be allowed to express another opinion.

In the majority of cases, there is no scientific evidence to back your opinion. A few people are hermaphrodites, but very few. The rest is what you guys like to call "a social construct".

You can't block people with different opinions here. This isn't your Facebook echo chamber.

If people wish to get expensive surgery, that's up to them, but try not to create a pseudo-scientific house of cards...

Unless you are the poster "Angry" and changed your screen name, I clearly wasn't talking to you.

Most genetic abnormalities are celebrated in sport, whether it is having the general body shape of a refrigerator (linemen) or being 7'2", or being a 4'11" female gymnast.

in b 4 ~ proves men are better at everything ~


including being a woman ~


in b 4 ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNzrem4U298

True! Proof!

in b 4 ~ I'm going to go with That Never Happened for $500 ~

Soviet olympic contestants

Just you wait men until the wimen all become scientists in developed countries with the sole goal of creating enhancing genetics to win back their weightlifting clout!

... wins Miss America.

How do you know one hasn't already?

You just blew my mind.

lurking in Wrote:
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> ... wins Miss America.

You are right.

A trans woman winning Miss America would be a significant event on many levels.

Not so much for the FACT of her winning, but more for what that fact would indicate about American culture and society at that, future, moment in history.

... not for the beauty and personality of the contestants.

Anyway, all the real progressives know beauty competitions are a symbol of patriarchal oppression and "the male gaze". So they must be banned now. :D

The old Pontiac Trans-Am probably has a niche market...

Trans Am. . .

Wasn't that an airline?

Ah, my little chickadee, you are thinking of the fabulous TWA, Trans World Airlines. Such freedoms we had back then!

Ah damn. I missed so much by not being born in the 19th century!

I participated in track & field in high school and college (walk-on). My best mark was 6' 6" in the high jump. There were three jumpers better than me on the college team so I never made the travel team. As a woman I would have been a superstar.

I have heard young male athletes say things like, "If I was a woman I would be the state champion." I usually reply, "If you were a woman your physiology would be different and you wouldn't be as fast." I guess I was wrong.

Billie Jean King beat Bobbie Riggs.

I don't think she could have won Miss America.

We are all going somewhere new.

Fasten your seat belts and put your hands in the air.




This was my poem for the day.

I am so excited to see you come out of your shell !!!!

I don’t care either. I mean it’s weight lifting.

However, even if she had gender reassignment surgery, it would still be unfair as she has been benefiting from testosterone her entire life since puberty and so naturally has more muscle mass.

Effectively, this is juicing.

Yes.

I don't know what Mary Gregory's medical situation is but here's the science

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307766116_Race_Times_for_Transgender_Athletes

https://theestablishment.co/no-female-trans-athletes-do-not-have-unfair-advantages-14b8e249f93c/

I think this illustrates how politicized it’s become. They let her keep the records because otherwise there would be hell to pay. Sometimes it’s better to look stupid and still have a job.

The officials were put in a no win situation. I would be trying to start judging cake baking contests instead if I were them.

As with any sport, what flies or doesn't fly is up to the sports federation. If it's an Olympic sport, the IOC will also have its say.

How about we further subdivide for genetic traits instead of just genders?

Mere details. If you have a good mantra, you can't risk it by looking at actual facts.

..."hey!! What about us?.... What are we?.......chopped liver?"

..."Please RFM, stop the hate!!"

http://www.iheartberlin.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/drag-show-girls.jpeg

This debate is silly. If you're ok with this, what it means is that in 20 years, people with penises will take all the physical world records that those with vaginal currently have. Lol. There is no debate, just people without any foresight.

But you can't say that, it's transphobia and cis-het patriarchal oppression.

Some of you guys are seriously behind the times.

Forget Caitlyn Jenner.

It is now medically possible for a person to develop physically as their innate gender with proper treatment as a pre-teen so they will never develop physical secondary sex characteristics.

You won't know and you won't be able to "tell."

If you have a surgically constructed vagina or penis and the natural anatomical and muscular development of someone of the same genetic sex, why shouldn't you be able to participate in competitive sport if you so chose?

This is no longer fiction.

This is now.

This young man was forced to compete with girls in Texas because he was assigned female sex at birth:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/25/transgender-wrestler-mack-beggs-wins-texas-girls-title



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/03/2019 10:54PM by anybody.

Parents and physicians have been assigning male gender to girls and female gender to boys for many decades. But we'll ignore that fact so we can pretend that society has never faced such questions before.