He's talking about (potentially) expecting a complete cure for Stage 2 pancreatic cancer. Is that possible? I thought that a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer is a death sentence. The only factor is how long you have.

At least he is getting top quality care.

We're all gonna die. It's all about the pace at which we approach death. With pancreatic cancer, you approach death like Usain Bolt approaches a 100 m. finish line, relatively speaking.

Doesn't Alex Trebek have the same ailment?

With ghawd or money, all things may be possible. Wait, that should probably read, "With money, or with ghawd and money, all things are possible."

Well that is sad news.

One of my best and dearest friends at Treasury was diagnosed with it in spring of 2011, and was gone by August. It wasn't the cancer that killed directly, but the pneumonia she got from her weakened immune system from the chemo.

I didn't even know I was a best friend until her sister called me to invite me to the lunch following the funeral services. She asked me to sit with their family. She told me I was her sister's second best friend, next to a childhood chum she'd grown up with.

We sat side by side for years as pod mates. She had a farm south of where I lived, I live north. Our paths only crossed at work. I had no idea I was her next best friend besides Patty.

We never know the lives we touch sometimes until it's too late to be able to say I loved her more. She was always concerned for me and my children.

Pancreatic cancer is a curse. I only know one person who survived it, then died several years later from something else.

I will pray for him. That's a horrible disease.

Sad news for him and his family. I wish him the best and there is some hope because it appears PC treatment is getting a little more effective.

But I think the press guys worked overtime to keep troop morale up. In the PC world the tem 'cure' is not used. The typical term is NED (no evidence of disease). Hopkins is a leading research hospital in PC but as far as I can tell the word is still not used in the medical literature and I would be surprised if they are using it now.

The first distinction to make with PC is between PDAC and endocrine types. The press release did not say which. Endocrine is less lethal and progresses more slowly compared to PDAC (pancreatic ductal adenocarcinoma). Steve Jobs had endocrine. Patrick Swayze had PDAC. 80% of the PC cases are PDAC. If that is the case here I can give a little background regarding his actual prospects - more than I wish I could - because I am about the same age as this guy, same race, and was diagnosed with stage 2 PDAC 5 years ago. Although this is OT I can also tie it to LDS.

PDAC is lethal because of where it is. It is hard to see (no lumps or spots), near major arteries (rapid transport to other organs) and lives in a very chemically active environment. It is often already metatstatic by the time It is found. Mutation density is high so single agent chemos may kill some of the tumor but other parts will continue to grow and spread. The basic survival stats have not changed much in the last 50 years. Half die in the first year and less than 5% survive 5 years. Of those diagnosed, 20% can have surgery to remove the primary tumor (the Whipple) because it has not generated other identifiable tumors (greater than about 1 mm). Of those who have surgery, 20% survive 5 years and 10% survive 10 years. This guy is at a top research hospital but their stats are not that different from the norm.

These factors explain why half a million breast cancer cases a year result in 50,000 deaths while 50,000 PC cases a year result in essentially the same number of deaths.

The recent advances have come in two areas 1) Surgery methods and objectives have steadily improved 2) Chemo has improved. I benefited from a very good surgeon and research done in Europe 20 years ago that identified the nucleotide agent gemcitabine. Recently effective agents from treatment of other cancers have been combined into a 5 agent cocktail and is used if the patient can take the toxicity.

Also there is a lot of work in immunotherapy and genetic profiling but they are in the trial phase (and almost all trials fail). I think most of the incremental gains today are through improved application of the established methods of chemo and surgery. As in many cancers the cure can be as bad as the disease (see Oliver Sacks).

Now to RFM. I shifted away from participation and belief in the church's unique truth and authority claims a number of years before my surgery and chemo and had moved towards a life that centered more on a peaceful core self and faith in a selected basket of values (a more zen like approach to life). I am grateful to have made that move because I feel like it has helped me navigate life with PC. There was way too much cog dis and just plain dissonance and confusion in the church doctrines and actions and that could not have helped in my life with PC (that fortunately is still NED).

Thanks you for your elegantly crafted recital. And I'll add what most people like to hear after such an effort as yours: "Thanks, I learned a lot."

Stay NED forever!

Thanks very much. Nothing like a NED wish from the EOD!

Wait, you misread that! It was a command! I'm sure Holy McGhost heard, too. He hangs around a lot...

Of course he does. I am exhibit A ;). However I suspect that the heartfelt wish from EOD gets at least equal standing to HmG in the cosmic scheme of things and in my book warrants even more recognition because you actually wrote something and HmG seems to be less clear, more subtle or something... ;)

Also to your last point. My TBM mother (full blown word of wisdom adherent her whole life) passed away in early 70's from idiopathic lung fibrosis - similar to cancer. It started a few years after they retired to SLC from upstate NY where I grew up. Her brother, who passed away from the same thing lived his entire life in the SL Valley. I think everyone knows about the air quality in SLC.

So she had some genetic predisposition (as I did from my grandfather) but Iagree, we don't help ourselves much with the way we run this world :(.

As another side LDS point - I was straight up WoW my whole life and still am except for coffee, but I did not eat very well - too much sugar and too few veggies so I am sure I did not help myself. I have turned a new page on that and I think it did help that my liver and lungs were in pretty good shape ;)

I know a guy who was cured of pancreatic cancer cheaply and easily. So the cure exists. I doubt this Marriott guy knows of it.

Why would you post this?

My SIL mother (TBM married to a former bishop, whole nine yards BIC, etc.,) who never smoked a day in her life, got stage 4 lung cancer.

Normally that would a death sentence. But she got some kind of experimental treatment for it and was cured. At least it's been in remission for a good fifteen years or more.

Nothing short of a miracle there, thanks to modern medicine. Other TBM SIL mother didn't fare so well. Her stage 4 lung cancer also a non-smoker, TBM BIC type, was terminal.

It metasasised to her other organs ie, liver & brain. What they both had in common was they both lived in high congestion areas. Welcome to the 21st century.

amyjo, I replied to your last point in thread above (wrong thread)

Are my eyes tricking me, or has SLC cleaned up on its air quality since the 70s? It looks cleaner though I understand the air inversions are still a real concern there.

My maternal grandparents raised their children in Ogden (Brigham City before that.) I recall seeing the black smog in the 70s that hung low over the metro area around Salt Lake.

My mom was a smoker when not an active TBM. She had a bad cough in her later years, from accumulated effects of smoking. Her dad suffered from emphysema. He was a lifelong smoker, never Mo. That got him in the end.

Sorry about your mom. The Wow didn't really address moderation in all things. But it did get tobacco right. Alcoholism runs in my Mormon genes, and is carcinogenic also. But sugar is too. Was corn syrup even a thing back then?

Being a cancer survivor myself, I've been learning more as I go about those health risks to my body.

Sorry to hear. I believe the current understanding of cancer development has 4 stages that extend over months and years.

1. cell inflammation
2. mutations allow organ specific tumor to develop
3. further mutations allow tumor cells to survive travel through body
4. further mutations allow tumor cells to grow in other organs

The last stage defines metastatic cancer and it is generally lethal. For example metastatic breast cancer has about the same survival rate as pancreatic cancer - which is usually metastatic when found (see previous post). And as you point out, cancer death is usually from illness not directly associated with the origin tumor. For example, most deaths from pancreatic cancer are from liver or lung failure after the cancer has spread to those organs.

There is apparently some interest in changing the naming convention for the types of cancer from the the origin organ to something that groups the cancer types by their biology/pathology. But this will probably only happen after the science is further along and the renaming is associated with improvements in treatment that take advantage of the increased understanding of the chemistry and biology.

That's nasty. Killed my FIL. Rotten way to die. He has my sympathy.

This is an awful disease. My younger sister died from pancreatic cancer 7 years ago. We just found out that our neighbor, who is also a good friend, has pancreatic cancer and told he has six months with treatment. It seems pancreatic cancer is normally discovered when at stage 4. I hope some diagnostic test is soon developed. A former coworker just passed away with this 3 weeks ago. I hate hearing the words - pancreatic cancer. If there is a god, it certainly is a cruel one.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2019 04:12AM by Eric K.

I think that a stage 4 cancer diagnosis is pretty much a death sentence. It doesn't take long after that. If this cancer is discovered early, the likelihood of overcoming it can be good. The reason that pancreas cancer takes so many people and is known to be so deadly is that there are typically no symptoms until it reaches stage 4 and by then, it's too late to do anything about it. I told my doctor that my sister died of pancreas cancer and asked him if I should be checked for it. He said there has been no correlation between family members having a higher risk of pancreas cancer because their family member has or has had pancreas cancer. If by some accidental means, the pancreas cancer is discovered early, the chances of complete recovery are good.

Steve Jobs died of pancreas cancer. That just shows that no amount of money can help if you have stage 4 pancreas cancer. It seems random when it comes to who gets it. I also know someone else who had other medical issues and during the process of diagnosing the other issue, their doctor discovered they were in the early stages of pancreas cancer. Both problems were easy to fix at that point. But both the pancreas cancer happening and then discovering it at an early stage were just random and accidental.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2019 06:48AM by azsteve.

“That just shows that no amount of money can help if you have stage 4 pancreas cancer.”

Or that there’s a communication problem.