"[Mat Easton] also shared an emotional story about another gay BYU student.

'It was his last semester and he was in sort of the same situation that I was, and he decided to come out on Facebook, and because of the rhetoric and the response that he got from our community he actually ended up committing suicide,' Easton told [Ellen] DeGeneres. 'He sat right in front of me, and I saw him do that, and I thought, ‘Is that my future? Is that what I’m headed toward?’ So I thought, maybe if I came out at graduation, maybe a student like me, a freshman, could say, ‘No, my future’s something brighter, something better. We can succeed. We can do what we want and accomplish our dreams.’ So that’s why I chose to come out there.' "

http://www.ontopmag.com/article/46946/BYU_Graduate_Says_Classmates_Suicide_Moved_Him_To_Come_Out_Gay”

Thank you summer. I would have missed that.

I don't have to wonder what would have happened to someone doing that back in my day at BYU--the seventies with President Oaks. There would be no Ellen show to go on after. There wouldn't be much of an after at all for anyone doing that.

What made this possible is not only Mat's backbone, but also all the wonderful people in this country who unlike the Mormons, "get it" and are more interested in being kind and inclusive than carrying on with the harmful judgmental sin nonsense.

So many wonderful people out there.

"...but also all the wonderful people in this country who unlike the Mormons, "get it" and are more interested in being kind and inclusive than carrying on with the harmful judgmental sin nonsense."

Actually, I have just a glimmer of hope for the many Mormons who cheered and applauded Matt's remarks at BYU commencement. They were very supportive. I was surprised and heartened.

Certainly, not all Mormons would be as supportive, but they take their cue from "The Brethren" and do not think for themselves. They are like zombies whose never-ending mantra is "Follow the Prophet." For those people, there is little or no hope.

You are very generous. I hope your glimmer turns into a flame.

I tend to see it differently. My own family has been somewhat supportive of me being gay. My worse half is welcome at my parents and he gets cards from my mother. My siblings ask about him sometimes. My other half hasn't been to see my family in twenty years or more. My mom is relieved. She lives in fear of anyone in the county knowing I am gay. Of course they all do.

Supportive. Maybe. The best they can be? BUT, at Conference, they all raise their hand to the square in support of the men in the red velvet chairs who may as well be stroking white Persian cats with one hand and the pinkie on their other hand in the corner of their mouths. So what if some of them clapped for Matt? What is the worth? I hope more than it seems to me.

The clapping, applause, doesn't do it for me. What did it for me were all the people who spoke with their feet after Prop 8 and again after Children of Gays fiasco.

Any other college or university and a coming out of this nature would be "so yesterday." Only because of what Mormons are does this garner attention.

This year will be fifty years since the StoneWall riots and the drag queens and trans and gays barricaded and threw bricks at police and said enough is enough.

Fifty years later and this is where Mormonism is? Still willing to do this to their own children?

Sorry about the rant. It's not at you Lorenzo. Sometimes the embers get stirred.

Isn't it too damned bad it took a peer to come out and do what the grownups in the room should've had the wisdom to have known all along?

Stupid Mormon policies that discriminate openly against entire groups of sub-cultures within their own population. Why do they have to wait until their children rise up before them by committing suicide and coming out at commencement ceremonies to take a stand because TSCC is too willfully blind and ignorant to do so itself?

It is irritating to no end.

What about the teenagers that never got to see the inside of a college campus? The ones who were lost before they could graduate from high school?

Mormonism has a lot of penitence to do before it can call itself chastened.

I think of Harry often when I look over at the mountains above Saratogo Springs where we watched them bring his body down about a week after he killed himself. It was a very sad time. He had been my wife's step son from a previous marriage.

This is why Mormon moms should stay at home instead of working. So they can watch the Ellen show.

They don't seem to see they are hypocrits.

My TBM daughter stated after seeing Bohemian Rhapsody, "Being gay is a lot more complex than people think." Even she tends to have thought in terms of "it is about sex."

Once my daughter actually "came out of the closet" at 14, she gave us all permission to be open about it. I used to have little breakdowns every time I told someone my ex is gay. He didn't tell people either. Now everyone knows and IT IS SO GREAT to be FREE. I told some older not mormon lady I worked with at Sam's and she told me not to tell anyone else. I purposely tell others. My mother also didn't want others to know our story and I told her it was my story to tell and I wanted it told, and I tell it.

It is TIME to stop this insanity especially here in Utah. They can pretend all they want, but that is ALL THEY ARE DOING is pretending. Things have not changed much since 1983 when I found out my ex is gay. I don't believe 1 word that comes from their mouths. I just wait for them to do something to prove yet again who they really are.

And, also, thanks, summer. I'm going to send this to my ex and some of our gay friends, and I'm going to post it on fb.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2019 11:38AM by cl2.

The sad reality is TSCC has blood on its hands.

No gay BYU valedictorian speech is going to undo the travesty and damage the cult has wrought in the name of God and everything holy.

It has reaped what it has sowed, and its past is coming back to bite it in the arse.

It can't undo what it has done. Unless/until it owns up to the carnage it has caused, how can it ever repair the lives it has harmed? It can't bring back the dead.

Maybe after Oaks dies he will have to march past all the corpses.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It can't undo what it has done. Unless/until it
> owns up to the carnage it has caused, how can it
> ever repair the lives it has harmed? It can't
> bring back the dead.


What responsibility do humans have?

Or, are we all pawns to religion, therapists, media, anyone and everyone who says WORDS (and does not assault us, does not touch us, does not even know us personally) with whom we do not agree with?

Is the VICTIM life worth living?

Is the BLAME everyone and their mother worth living?



Freddy Mercury says, 'No'

Socrates says, 'No'

Beth Ditto says, 'No'

Open Mike Eagle says, 'No'

Plato says, 'No'

David Bowie says, 'No'

Hippocrates says, 'No'

Gil Scott Heron says, 'No'

Joe Strummer says, 'No'

MLK Jr. says, 'No'

Henry Rollins says, 'No'

Aaron Swartz says, 'No'

Immanuel Kant says, 'No'

Maimonides says, 'No'

Kate Bush says, 'No'

Annie Sprinkle says, 'No'

Alvin Ailey says, 'No'

Perry Farrell says, 'No'

Shree Krishna says, 'No'

Timothy Leary says, 'No'

Les McCann says, 'No'

King Zimri-Lim says, 'No'

Missy Elliot says, 'No'

Courtney Love says, 'No'

Phil Lesh says, 'No'

Harriet Tubman says, 'No'

Felix Frankfurther says, 'No'

Nina Simone says, 'No'

Roland G. Fryer, Jr. says, 'No'

bell hooks says, 'No'

Harvey Milk says, 'No'

Alice Paul says, 'No'

Liza Minnelli says, 'No'

Camille Paglia says, 'No'

Mahatma Gandi says, 'No'

Andrea Dworkin says 'No'

Jennifer Holliday says, 'No'

Valentina Cherevatenko says, 'No'

Dorothea Lange says, 'No'

Nelson Mandela says, 'No'

Bertrand Russell says, 'No'

Janis Joplin says, 'No'

Shakespeare says, 'No'

Simone de Beauvoir says, 'No'

Tupac Shakur says, 'No'

Dolores Cacuango says, 'No'

Bjork says, 'No'

Fred Ebb says, 'No'

Sojourner Truth says, 'No'




And Yeshua says, 'NO!'

And I say, "WTF?" "Huh?"

Not really sure of your point, but I am really over the celebrity endorsement thing.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Not really sure of your point, but I am really
> over the celebrity endorsement thing.

Pathetic that the social justice work of MLK Jr. and Mahatma Gandi is reduced to 'celebrity endorsement thing' for you.

Maybe start with Maimonides? Or the work of bell hooks?

Shakespeare?

Or travel some? Could help?

Sure, and add Courtney Love, Tupac Shakur, and Bjork to that list. Why would your average person care about their opinion about anything (except their field of expertise?)

You still didn't explain your point which is cloudy, caramel.

If what you are implying is that words can't hurt, you are very naive.

Perhaps instead of just listing celebrity names to back up your muddle, you could actually give a well thought out opinion of some substance and provide actual quotes from your "well known" sources as not proof but of other opinions. The "look it up yourself" approach here is juvenile.

And furthermore, If you are going to stoop to insulting someone based on their knowledge of MLK, Mahatma GHandi, or Shakespeare you should start by actually knowing what that person knows on that subject. And you don't.

So easy to throw out self important barbs, isn't it caramel?

Anyone say maybe? I'm just curious...

I think it was Soares whose conference talk was all about loving everyone and not causing harm to other people. It was a decent exposition regarding "do unto others as you would have them do..."

And then it was completely lost in some of the talks, by bigger names, that followed.

Yes, it would be nice if gay kids had the strength and willfulness to stand up for themselves. And I'm sure many do! I hope it's the vast majority! But there are some trapped by circumstance who fall prey to the Utah tidal wave of 'better off dead than gay' rhetoric that passes of wisdom.

Small towns, a small religion, and small minds obviously can add up to too much to bear under the proper circumstances.

My Mormon family on my mom's side thinks that it is better for gay people to either stay single and live the Godly life or commit suicide and let the Lord Almighty sort it out for them. My parents choose me over the religion and luckily I never had to deal with that side of the family after my parents figured me "out". Long story short... a big piece of the pie of life is having sexual relations with the person of your choice. (Assenting Adults) and the Mormon church has no business in my or your bedroom!

I like your attitude, shylock!

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " also shared an emotional story about another gay
> BYU student.

> my future’s something brighter, something
> better. We can succeed. We can do what we want and
> accomplish our dreams.’ So that’s why I chose
> to come out there.' "

So when did he resign?

The guy giving the speech is kind of a hypocrite. Why is he supporting TSCC and quoting the BOM? He knew he was gay early in life. I'm glad for him, just not sure why he is still supporting a verified cult.

Probably because it's hard to extract yourself from something in which you have been deeply indoctrinated. He has also been living in the very restrictive and controlled environment of BYU. In time, he may find his way out.

No one made him go to BYU.

No one made him go to BYU. That is an easy thing to say without considering that a cult mindset is a powerful thing.

Fresh out of high school brainwashed Mormon? How many 18 year olds know who the hell they are at that point or what life is about or how to play the game?

You don't know where his indocrintated mind was when he entered BYU.

nolongerangry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one made him go to BYU.

You might be surprised how many are forced to go to BYU by parents and the system they were born into as members of TSCC. For cultees, it's as much a requirement as going on a mission, getting married in the temple, etc. They go to BYU to meet their spouses.

If you rely on your parents for college tuition and they say they will pay one or the other BYU, but you're on your own for any other school, it's pretty hard to say no.

Hard to blame the parents, considering how much money they've paid in tithing.

I would say . . .


What he did was Step One. He knows he did not choose to be gay and he is no longer willing to apologize or hide it. Also his empathy for others spurred the doing of something he may not have done for himself.

Step Two is now realizing he is in No Man's Land and the applause was momentarily nice, but useless and will not sustain.

Coming out is often a process--especially for those from cult religions. Brainwashing goes deep and getting it out of your system means finding all the nooks and crannies where it is still hiding out.


I hope finishes Step Two and he gets to Step Three as in going all Howard Beale--"I"m mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!"


I buried step three for a long time. It wasn't a good thing to do. Anger is part of healing and part of claiming yourself. It's good to harness it, use it wisely, but feel it you must.


And, hypocritical? I get why you would think that and it deserves to be considered. But,that remains to be seen. Matt is a far cry from some of the other out Mormons like Josh Weed and those who try so hard to straddle the divide and become Judas Goats for the young gay Mormon kids.

Mormons love to talk about their "mantels." Well, Matt has just shrouded himself with one intentionally or not. We'll see where it goes from here.

It takes time. Everyone leaves in their own way. We don't know their experiences. I cannot imagine growing up gay in mormonism, let alone growing up gay. It was difficult enough to go through what I have because of loving someone gay and being mormon.

He is on his way. I truly believe that. It took me 23 years to accept him 100% as gay, to understand why he did the things he did. He is one of my very best friends. Loving him has taught me more in life than I could have ever imagined and it got me out of mormonism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2019 11:45AM by cl2.

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It takes time. Everyone leaves in their own way.
> We don't know their experiences. I cannot imagine
> growing up gay in mormonism, let alone growing up
> gay. It was difficult enough to go through what I
> have because of loving someone gay and being
> mormon.
>
> He is on his way. I truly believe that. It took
> me 23 years to accept him 100% as gay, to
> understand why he did the things he did. He is
> one of my very best friends. Loving him has
> taught me more in life than I could have ever
> imagined and it got me out of mormonism.

Are you his mom or dad?

And thinking about it while listening to Queen while running to town--did carameldreams see the movie, Bohemian Rhapsody? Obviously, even Freddy Mercury took time coming to terms with being gay.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2019 08:10PM by cl2.