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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 12:52PM

I don't understand how this bill infringes on their religious freedom which is already protected under the constitution.


"In its statement, the LDS Church said it “is on record favoring reasonable measures” to secure rights for LGBTQ people in housing, employment and public accommodations. At the same time, though, the statement said, “we urgently need laws that protect the rights of individuals and faith communities to freely gather, speak out publicly, serve faithfully and live openly according to their religious beliefs without discrimination or retaliation, even when those beliefs may be unpopular.”




https://www.sltrib.com/news/2019/05/13/lds-church-comes-out/?fbclid=IwAR2q7QiDWV27XlEEwE5RIF5hW7JoPy3LshICJ_x3lpRAiK_ERxk2zPttGwk&fbclid=IwAR00Nq09uDp7jijYZ-DcQz1nyDV6mtujLDJ-w0ZaOm7GPmyG4V3Br3JtvxA

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 01:03PM

The church always wants to be the victim while defending its own bigotry.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 01:07PM by messygoop.

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Posted by: Done & Done ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 01:25PM

That is it in a nutshell.

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 01:19PM

I just saw this video about how Muslim immigrants to Norway are required to attend classes in gender equality (as it exists in Norway). If the male immigrants do not attend the classes, their immigration benefits are reduced.

In the USA (and in LDS culture, of course) a similar cultural process going on.

In both instances, the relevant culture IS changing (just as it did for USA racial issues, during and after the Civil Rights movement).

The point is made, in the Norwegian video, that the main progress for Norwegian gender equality among immigrants will occur among the upcoming generation(s). This is obviously true for LDS church members as well.

Progress, no matter what the subject matter or what culture, is awkward as it is underway, but in Western culture, it is happening--even within the LDS church.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKY600o3CXw



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2019 01:20PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 11:38AM

One of the things history teaches is that progress is reversible. Democracy is fragile; when anxious, people don't like the ambiguity it brings; and in tough times they find others to blame for their suffering.

It's dangerous to take too much for granted.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 01:33PM

It's not religious discrimination to ask religions to keep their bigotry confined to their churches and homes and out of the public.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 11:06PM

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not religious discrimination to ask [tell] religions to keep their bigotry confined to their churches and homes and out of the public. >

Yep.

Simple as that!

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: May 15, 2019 02:06PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2019 02:12PM by saucie.

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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 01:35PM

Here's another article about it. It looks like they are afraid it will take away their ability to openly discriminate. Though I don't see how it would change their religious freedom. Hope it passes this time.



"First introduced in 2015, the Equality Act is a version of a bill introduced in 1974. In addition to adding "gender identity" and "sexual orientation" to the classes protected against discrimination by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the new bill specifies that it is illegal to discriminate against all protected classes in retail stores, emergency shelters, banks, transit and pharmacies, among other places.

"The Equality Act also clarifies that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) cannot be used in civil rights contexts, prohibiting religious liberty — which is a core American value — from being used as a license to discriminate," the ACLU wrote in a press release."

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/democrats-reintroduce-equality-act-ban-lgbtq-discrimination-n982771

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 01:51PM

Honestly. In most work environments people pretty much keep their religion and what they do in the bedroom to themselves.

Most Mormons (sorry Russ. I’m still using the term) I know aren’t pushing their religion on others nor are the gay people I know pushing their gayness on people. They show up to work and do their job.

Do I care that they are Mormon or gay? Nope. Most people don’t anymore. You might if they start pushing their beliefs on you. So keep your Mormonism and gayness to yourself and things are fine. Most people don’t want to hear about your religion or what you do with your partner in your private time.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: May 13, 2019 02:02PM


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Posted by: HWint ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 11:09AM

from Wikipedia:

>Scientists and medical practitioners gave overwhelming support to Equality Act. Summarizing the view of the scientific community in 2017, the American Psychological Association released a statement that "the Equality Act is necessary because discrimination based on sex, gender identity, and sexual orientation remains a grave problem across the United States."

Gender discrimination...

Hmm...

90% of RNs are female.

80% of social workers and early childhood educators are female.

70% of psychologists and tax prepares are female.

will there be affirmative action to make 50% of nurses male?

probably not.

will the American Psychological Association ensure that 50% of practicing psychologists are male?

probably not.

7 of 10 suicides are white men. will they address the reasons for this suicide disparity?

probably not.

they're opposed only to certain types of discrimination.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 11:16AM

The LDS 'church' will never come out (of the rabbit Whole).

It doesn't know or believe in equality so it can't speak on the subject.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 11:20AM

Perhaps the Mormon church should clarify exactly how it would like to discriminate against LGBTQ people. No temple marriage -- got it. No tolerance of even civil marriage. Anything else? Instead of hiding behind "religious freedom," church authorities owe it to the public to declare exactly how they wish to discriminate.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 01:14PM

Adoption, etc., let alone surrogate.

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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 01:45PM

It would be a very long list, I'm sure. I would like to see that list made public so we could understand just exactly how their religious freedom is being trampled.

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Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: May 14, 2019 11:30AM

If Greg Prince's thesis continues to hold, this should help the Equality Act pass. Yippie! See, this is God's way of advancing human rights. He has his unpopular true church fight it! How great the wisdom and the love!

Ok. Not likely to get through the Senate or get signed by President Trump--but maybe later on.

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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: May 15, 2019 12:50PM

It's not just the Mormons that are worried about the Equality Act. Pat Robertson is fear-mongering as well.


"Prominent evangelical leader Pat Robertson said Tuesday that God will get rid of the United States as a nation if it passes the Equality Act, legislation aimed at extending federal protections to the LGBT community.

"They always give good names to these things," Robertson said on the Christian Broadcasting Network while discussing the bill. "This is a devastating blow to religious freedom and to the sanctity of America. If you want to bring the judgment of God on this nation, you just keep this stuff up."

"I was reading in Leviticus where it says because of these things the land 'will vomit you out,'" Robertson continued. "Vomit you out. I think God will say, 'I’ve had it with America if you do this kind of stuff, I’m going to get rid of you as a nation.'"

The televangelist then appeared to liken the potential effects of the legislation to an atomic war or "solar strike.""


https://thehill.com/homenews/house/443739-evangelical-leader-pat-robertson-on-what-happens-if-equality-act-passes-the?fbclid=IwAR3BJZ8yzik56CVjbYDOkxU9_omTkb0Ng0qNyzYZ5B0q84njpOD9An5H77g

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: May 15, 2019 01:10PM

eternal1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Prominent evangelical leader Pat Robertson said
> Tuesday that God will get rid of the United States
> as a nation if it passes the Equality Act,
> legislation aimed at extending federal protections
> to the LGBT community.
>
> "They always give good names to these things,"
> Robertson said on the Christian Broadcasting
> Network while discussing the bill. "This is a
> devastating blow to religious freedom and to the
> sanctity of America. If you want to bring the
> judgment of God on this nation, you just keep this
> stuff up."
>
> "I was reading in Leviticus where it says because
> of these things the land 'will vomit you out,'"
> Robertson continued. "Vomit you out. I think God
> will say, 'I’ve had it with America if you do
> this kind of stuff, I’m going to get rid of you
> as a nation.'"
>
> The televangelist then appeared to liken the
> potential effects of the legislation to an atomic
> war or "solar strike.""

Substitute synonyms for the word "black" (in a racial sense), and this is, virtually word-for-word, what was being said by many local, and many prominent, Christian religious leaders during the Civil Rights Era.

Virtually the same quotes, six decades later--but now the quotes are about LBGTQ people.

In the end, the result(s) will be the same.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2019 01:16PM by Tevai.

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Posted by: eternal1 ( )
Date: May 16, 2019 11:10AM

"In the end, the result(s) will be the same."

I like to think you are right, but, with the current political situation in this country, we seem to be going backwards.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: May 16, 2019 02:21PM

Tevai, your words "six decades later" really hit home with me.

When I was in about 4th grade (many and many a year ago) the teacher was setting up a playground baseball game. I called out, "Dibs on pitcher!" Without missing a beat, the teacher said, "Girls can't be pitchers."

Since I was routinely the designated pitcher in neighborhood baseball games (I had to pitch for both teams, as nobody else could throw worth a darn) I had plenty of experience.

So I asked, "Where does it say that?" on the assumption that there was a written policy on such a ridiculous rule or else the teacher wouldn't dare say it. One of my classmates, who also played in the 'hood and knew how I could throw, said, "Catnip is the pitcher in our neighborhood games. She's good."

The teacher turned red at being challenged. She told my classmate that she hadn't asked for his opinion. Then she turned to me and said that students were not allowed to read school policies. If SHE said something was so, that was the end of the discussion, that was the end of it.

That's how discrimination felt to me. I never even had a chance to show them that I could throw. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now.

Six decades - and it's still wrong to judge people as a group rather than on individual merits. Just because I was female, it was a foregone conclusion that I couldn't throw a softball.

Yeah. It hurt.

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