I found a trigger that pushed my angry button. I could not figure out why I was so angry at a pushy customer.

Then it hit me. This customer INSISTS, even DEMANDS to be addressed by his honorific title of a Pastor at his church.

Every interaction I treat him with the utmost respect and every mannerism, body language and please and thank you. You know what ticked him off that he gave me a 5 minute lecture on it? That I would address him as "Pastor Smith".

I apologized to him that he was offended, but explained that I understood members of HIS church would address him as such, not strangers. But what is funny is I address him by his first name, and not Pastor Smith, he ignores it. Call him Sir or Mr and he unravels into along speech about how he achieved the goal of Pastor, etc. FYI, he did not go to years of Seminary he went to HIS denominations special classes.

I meet Catholic Priests that don't have me address them as "Father Smith". We call them by their first name. WHy? because its only appropriate if you are Catholic.

Ok..so here I am having an internal anger button that is pushed and salvaging the experience to not tick the customer off.

Coming home and doing some soul searching..trying to figure out why this bugs me so much?

Ah, it was the years of LDS indoctrination to refer to people who were not my relatives as Brother and Sister. Being demanded to refer to someone as Elder, Bishop, Patriarch, etc.

Maybe Im over the top here, but Im really annoyed that someone demands to be called by a church appointed honorific when I don't even go to that church. As if calling someone a perfectly respectful Mr, Mrs, Madame, Ms, Sir, Maam, etc. is not enough.

My final thought, in Christianity, those who are in leadership roles are supposed to be HUMBLE and not laud their titles over others.

*going for a walk to shake off my gripe*

Not as Recovered Molly Mo as Id like to be right now...

What an insecure pompous little dick. Next time he pulls this just say, "Fine Pastor Smith, you may address me as Your Highness RMM."

Would've pushed my buttons too. I work in a world with lots of CEO's and very accomplished people of all kinds of people who are really "up there" and everybody goes by their first name. Period. It's 2019 and the caste system is dead or at least should be. My doctors insist on having their first names used. I don't even know anybody's last name anymore.

The guy has some mental issues, and he's channeling them your way

I'd do a side-step if I were you. If he insists on being called Pastor, then fine. But he clearly has issues.

If he continues ranting, you may need backup. I've been in situations at work where some people come into the office and start off as seemingly professional people. Next thing they go off the handles, and we end up calling security.

Keep on your guard. You have a built-in radar for a reason!

I've been surprised how many people call themselves "pastors" without any actual credentials at all !! Seriously.

Or people who put Rev in their title as a calling card or return mail to give themselves a title, when they aren't a reverend.

This guy that demands you show him the respect of a pastor may not even be one. Just saying. For starters, he lacks humility. And he may just be conning people.

This reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld where Elaine is dating a guy who works as a maestro. He insisted that everyone address him as "the maestro." It was funny, but this guy you are talking about is not funny. He is really a world class douche. He knew you were at work and wanted to keep your job and you could not cuss him out. I could think of many ways you could have addressed him that would make his first name or Mr. whomever sound pretty damn good.
I taught for 42 years. Maybe I should insist on being called the teacher.

I knew a TBM woman whose husband accepted a calling as Bishop of the ward. She always referred to him as "the bishop." As in, I wanted to have hamburgers for supper, but the Bishop wanted spaghetti, so the Bishop had to go to the grocery store. LOLOL Some ppl just need to get over themselves. I'm so glad to be out of there! What was I thinking?

I would probably address him the way he wants and privately think he is hypersensitive and insecure. I do try to address people with titles by their title unless told differently.It seems polite.It is also rude to demand to be called by your title.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2019 10:23PM by bona dea.

About a year after we moved in, I guess the ward got a new bishop. About 8-10 years younger then me. He came by our nevermo home and knocked on the door about 10 am Saturday morning. I opened the door. He reminded me of Homer Simpson's "Howdy Neighbor" guy. He said "Hi neighbor, I'm bishop xxxxx and just wanted to introduce myself". I said"Your name is Bishop?" He said his name was Mike, but he's the "bishop of the neighborhood". My wife said, "I guess we missed that election". He stopped smiling his fake smile and stammered about how he's "Father of the ward", and watches over the boundaries of the neighborhood. I told him we're not in his church and not in his ward. And, that he shouldn't come back and to keep the missionaries, that had been bugging us for 9 months, away as well. He wasn't happy. He came by to see some of my neighbors and it took about 2 years before he even looked at me to return a wave.
Self given titles are not worthy of respect. Reminds me of the comedian on the old Bob and Tom show. Call me El Conquistador.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn6OrlRjKMA

FOFLMFAO @ El Conquistador

Just as important as "bishop"-right?

stillanon Wrote:
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> Just as important as "bishop"-right?


Just as crazy! :)

OPie must address ziller as "pastor ziller" now ~


thx ~

Sure, Past yer Ziller ~

It makes good sense.

You can become an ordained minister of Dudeism online.

This reminds me of Mormons who call themselves and each other "ministers", when they have never even set foot in divinity school.

A Mormon former friend called her husband "President." He had been a mission president in the past, but was now our bishop. His wife still called him "President", because it was the higher of the two positions. He was the worst bishop I ever had, and one of the worst people, lacking in integrity, character, compassion. He was a sexist and a racist, and could not stay honest in his business dealings--could not--even in the simplest transaction, he had to work some self-serving angle. No wonder he couldn't keep a job, and had to declare bankruptcy, and lost his house (which caused him to leave the neighborhood).

This trait might trigger your PTSD, as it might be part of a cluster of traits that abusive people have. He probably reminds you of someone else.

Be very professional. Refer to yourself as Ms. Whoever, just to keep things equal. Focus on your paycheck. Take deep breaths. Never get personal, in any way. YOUR religion and marital status and education family are none of his business--even if he wants to broadcast his to everyone.

Reminds me of the old high priests who call their wife "mother". I suppose they're trying to honor her for having a bunch of kids.
But really - calling your wife Mother just seems weird.

So too is referring to their wives as "wifey" or "old lady." Those are derogatory also and sexist.

One guy I used to know (he had a wry sense of humor, and was himself a sexist,) referred to his wife as a "battle ax," and a "wench." Not sure he said it to her face, but that was how he described her to his friends lol.

He left a high paying CEO job under duress of a lawsuit over a sexual harassment charge, so he took early retirement and bailed.

He moved south to live with his wife in Savannah, Georgia, where they kept a second home. They had what is known as a "marriage of convenience." Staying married only for economic reasons and the sake of their only child. It would cost more to divorce than for them to stay together.

Then he died on the golf course barely 2-3 years into his retirement. He was barely 55 at the time. I thought wow, what a loss. He had so much to live for. A new grandchild. Early retirement. But he had a seizure disorder, and that is what got him in the end. :(

A matter of opinion I suppose, but, I don't consider wifey/hubby derogatory or sexist, rather a term of endearment.

Old lady/man is borderline.

Battle axe, wench, those are over the top.

I get your frustration. What a jerk. And I also hated having to call everyone "Brother so and so, or Sister so and so". It's so culty, plus it sets the kids up for failure....let me explain. Many years ago when I was co-hosting a baby shower for my knocked up TBM sister (she was 18, I was older and had already flown the coop and the cult), we were playing a game and I had to tell this lady from their ward that she had won. I couldn't remember her name...or did I ever even know it? Her children had different last names as her because of a divorce. In the moment I drew blank (not knowing her first name) and called her 'Sister Last name of ex-husband)...Whoops! It was embarrassing for both of us...in front of a bunch of TBM women.

I mean geez...

Hearing people now (I left TSSC 20 years ago) refer to each other as Brother and Sister so and so...or hearing my dad refer to anyone who has ever been bishop as "bishop", or hearing my dad refer to the mishies as 'elder'...mega trigger for me too.

Another quick story...I was over at my TBM neighbor's house shooting the breeze, when their teenaged son had a big outburst in front of me. I didn't care...whatever. About 10 minutes later he comes back into the room and looks at me and says, 'I'm sorry for my outburst Mrs. Bluebutterfly'. I was floored!

When I was a working cop, a few women in church liked to address me as "Officer Caffiend." I asked them not to, but they kept at it. At first, it was just annoying, but then I explained that I can't have people think they can approach me as a law officer--my church is not in my jurisdiction (no enforcement powers). Thankfully they finally stopped. But some people are like that.

My pastor is young enough to be my son. One-on-one, I call him by his first name. Among others in, or in the context of, church, I address and refer to him as "Pastor T--."

We've had fun with the Episcopal titles, which nobody seems to make sense of. There's "the Most Rev. ---" and "the Very Rev. --" and so on. I'll sign off as:

"the Rt.IrRev. Fiend"

https://youtu.be/f0CprVYsG0k
This reminds me of when Barbara Boxer got on that poor General for calling her ma’am, instead of Senator. In a different circumstance, he would of used “ Senator “. A 4 Star General calling you ma’am is a compliment. They usually get called Sir or ma’am

Just a question, and not that you're not totally justified in your response to the guy's abhorrent behavior, but don't you think calling that PTSD might be disrespectful to people who have legitimate PTSD (i.e., combat veterans, victims of sexual assault, etc.)?

I guess I understand what you're trying to say, but it's the effect that is measured, not the cause.

Good answer elder. :)

I can see that. Good point. Thanks.

No disrespect to anyone here. There are different contributors to PTSD...and yes I have it due to years of ecclesiastical and spousal TBM abuse.


RMM

I agree with Amyjo that the pastor may have no real credentials (hence the outsize pride in his "title.") Some independent congregations appoint their pastors from the community in much the same way Mormons do.

Since his insistence on using the title "pastor" is triggering for you, I would just go with his first name.

Call Queen Elizabeth 'Betty'. She's not your queen.

Yes, I'm being ironic. I agree that the guy sounds like a pompous, insecure doofus. He's probably sexist too. Those are his problems.

Unless his title is vulgar or fraudulent, you should call him what he prefers to be called. Don't explain to him him why his request is inappropriate. It isn't. If you can't extend a common courtesy, you should really rethink whether you should be in retail.

I think your negative reaction to is demand is a genuine problem, but it is your problem, and it is your responsibility to deal with it, not his. If your problem is severe enough that you need counseling, then do that. His demand (I hesitate to call it a request), however inartfully stated, is not unreasonable.

All IMHO

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Yes, I'm being ironic. I agree that the guy sounds
> like a pompous, insecure doofus. He's probably
> sexist too. Those are his problems.

It is reasonable to say he is pompous and insecure, but "probably sexist too"? It sounds like you've been taken in a bit by the Zeitgeist and are projecting. What evidence is there specifically here that he is sexist, other than being guilty of being born male? Be careful about what you think. I'm guessing from your username that you are male, and it is very dangerous for you and other males (especially children) to be programed into self-hatred. That road leads to depression and worse

The man may well just be obnoxious to everyone. Jumping to conclusions is the fashion but it does not make it right here.

I agree-especially at work. The customer is always right applies here. He is a pastor, and while I think his demand is kind of silly, he does have a right to the title.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2019 01:13PM by bona dea.

One of my friends is technically a "doctor", not a medical one, but as a result of his academic achievements. In fairness to him, though, he is very modest about it, and does not go around and insist on being called Dr. M... C... all the time. This is to his credit.

In this instance, just refer to said person as Pastor. If you're in a business, you have to put up with these people, and you lose business if you don't. It is a necessary evil. Outside the business environment, you can just point out they're pretentious.

I wouldn't want re guy to report me to my superior so I would roll my eyes and call him pastor.

I know on letterhead where I work, if someone writes to us and uses pastor or Reverend in their title, we do not address them back as such when dealing with them on an individual basis. Same for someone using PhD as their title. We do not address them as Dr either on letterhead. It's just not something we do as an official protocol of where I work. They go by Mr., or Mrs., or Ms. in their salutation. Whereas a MD would be called "Dr.," in his or her salutation.

Similar for a retired corporal or lieutenant, or sergeant, from the military. They can address themselves with all the familiar and formal names they like. But in return they are given the same salutations as others are.

We don't know the OP's background experience with mormon males. It was highly inappropriate for the "pastor" to treat you that way.

I never got into the sister and brother business. I never called other ward members by those names. If I didn't 'want to call them that and I wasn't too familiar with them, I'd avoid using any name. The last bishop was an old friend and I always called him Paul. Thankfully, the neighbor kids (all of them) call me Colleen and not sister parkinson or Mrs. parkinson. I'm almost 62 and I'm glad they see that they can call me by my first name. I love it.

I also worked with "doctors." They were Ph.D.s. My boss, when I first started working for him, I'd call him "Dr. Layton." He came out to my desk and said, "They call me Bud." And he said it with humor. Loved that man. He was a great man!! Not a one of them thought they needed to be called Dr. Now I have to admit that a lot of the doctors I've gone to here in Utah needed to be called Dr. Even my last female doctor. My new doctor doesn't expect that. She's the best doctor I've ever had.

I always called my mormon bishop by his first name because I was doing that way before he became a bishop. No problem.

My husband used a common mormon title to put someone in his place. At his workplace, there was a TBM who was always making sexist comments about female workers. One time, my husband was standing next to him when a female co-worker walked by them. the guy said to my husband (loud enough for the lady to hear) "Boy, I would sure like to jump her bones!" The lady heard, and was very embarrassed. My husband turned to the guy and simply said:"that's fine talking,Elder!" After that, he never made a comment like that, again, at least in front of my husband. One other story: In our former bishopric, one of the counselors was a nice guy who had moved with his wife from Sweden to Utah. He and my husband got along great. He did a presentation is sacrament meeting and used a variety of masks as visual aids. He had masks from all over the world and said that we are all on stage and wear masks and change them to fit the situation. He also told my husband that he was surprised how the men in the stake and ward loved titles. They insisted that they be referred to as "president". It was shortly after his sacrament talk that he was released from the bishopric.

Titles are like compliments--they should never be begged for and should always come from someone else voluntarily.

When one demands respect one receives a substitute called
"polite capitulation" in its stead. Those who demand respect often do not know the difference and will settle for anything.

Whatever you say, sir... ;~)

If the poor guy so desperately needs to be called "Pastor," then why not call him "Pastor"?

It's an easy fix.

kathleen Wrote:
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> If the poor guy so desperately needs to be called
> "Pastor," then why not call him "Pastor"?
>
> It's an easy fix.

And then spit in his corn flakes! Yeah, works for me!