Do you fist bump? I find it tacky and low class. Thoughts.

It's more sanitary than shaking hand, and there are no fishy surprises.

I fistbump my way through life.

The list of things once considered tacky and low class is long and distinguished.

Sandwiches
Ragtime
Jazz
Jitterbug, the Twist, samba, mambo, tango, and on and on
Photos instead of oil portraits
Bossa Nova
Casseroles
Pumping your own gas
Women in pants
Women not wearing gloves in public
Self-serve anything

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The list of things once considered tacky and low
> class is long and distinguished.
>
> Sandwiches

Depends. Sometimes good, but have you ever seen the curled up versions they'll attempt to serve you in some parts of the world.

> Ragtime

So so. A bit light.

> Jazz

That's a wide field. Some is tacky, some sophisticated.

> Jitterbug, the Twist, samba, mambo, tango, and on
> and on

Some of these are tacky but fun. Others just sexual exhibitionism.

> Photos instead of oil portraits

Different media. Although on most social media, photos are tacky. Especially when someone of low intelligence has dog ears and teeth superimposed on their face.

> Casseroles

Not a fan. Have had too many. Maybe better in winter.

> Women in pants

Practical, but unfortunately pants have a habit of making someone's butt very obvious. If someone has a big one then pants are less flattering than a skirt.

> > Women in pants
>
> Practical, but unfortunately pants have a habit of
> making someone's butt very obvious. If someone has
> a big one then pants are less flattering than a
> skirt.

By this reasoning, a whole lot of guys would be more flattered in skirts.

Don't forget that eating ribs and lobster was thought to be low class.

Yeah, but that ain't the half of it.

There was a time when you would be damned for eating lobster!

Is a lobster considered to be shellfish ?
I always boil my kids in their mother's milk.
And don't get me started about my poly/cotton blends.

And what about deer hunting? Who wants to go deer hunting if you can't eat the corpse?









Psst. I don't really know if lobsters are shellfish.

Lobsters are considered shellfish. Generally aquatic life with an exoskeleton are considered to be shellfish.

That was my supposition.

Of manners degenerating in our society. Someone tried to do this witb me the other day, and I said, "What are you doing?"

When someone shakes hands, or waves at you, it is partly an indication (or supposedly so) that they hold no weapon in their hand, because their palm is open. In a fist bump, not only is the hand clenched in a gesture of aggression, but it could also be hiding something which has just been stolen.

Of course, most people don't do this out of malice - usually idiocy instead or copying an idiot - but it is actually an aggressive gesture.

Don't get me onto hip bumps!

Jordan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Of manners degenerating in our society. Someone
> tried to do this witb me the other day, and I
> said, "What are you doing?"
>
> When someone shakes hands, or waves at you, it is
> partly an indication (or supposedly so) that they
> hold no weapon in their hand, because their palm
> is open. In a fist bump, not only is the hand
> clenched in a gesture of aggression, but it could
> also be hiding something which has just been
> stolen.
>
> Of course, most people don't do this out of malice
> - usually idiocy instead or copying an idiot - but
> it is actually an aggressive gesture.
>
> Don't get me onto hip bumps!
Exactly, the fistbump is a symbol of shall we say, ethnic and low socioeconomic classes.

That's funny, 'cause I thought it was just a symbol of friendship or a greeting. (And if the statistics hold true, my yearly income is greater than 90% of the people on this board.)

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's funny, 'cause I thought it was just a
> symbol of friendship or a greeting. (And if the
> statistics hold true, my yearly income is greater
> than 90% of the people on this board.)


I work in a poor part of town. Everyone fist bumps there. I live in an affluent area of town, I have never seen a fist bump.

Sorry, I'm going to have to bow out of this conversation. I just got to work, where I'm going to be busy making lots of money while I fist bump my colleagues, who are also making lots of money.

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, I'm going to have to bow out of this
> conversation. I just got to work, where I'm going
> to be busy making lots of money while I fist bump
> my colleagues, who are also making lots of money.


Hahahahahahahhahahahahahhahaha I love it.

nolongerangry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Humberto Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > That's funny, 'cause I thought it was just a
> > symbol of friendship or a greeting. (And if
> the
> > statistics hold true, my yearly income is
> greater
> > than 90% of the people on this board.)
>
>
> I work in a poor part of town. Everyone fist
> bumps there. I live in an affluent area of town,
> I have never seen a fist bump.

Not seen poor people do it - more like poseurs...

But who the heck greets their supposed friend with a CLENCHED FIST?!

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's funny, 'cause I thought it was just a
> symbol of friendship or a greeting. (And if the
> statistics hold true, my yearly income is greater
> than 90% of the people on this board.)


It is a gesture of friendship.In this neck of the woods it's called dap. Even my baby granddaughter will give you knuckles. I, my children and my in laws have Masters degrees and we also give daps. Anyone who thinks it's low class or idiotic, that's their problem. The surgeon who did my last 3 surgeries gives fist bumps. It's only meant as friendly. Which had you rather have-daps or the ol' one finger salute? lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 12:45PM by Aquarius123.

> It is a gesture of friendship

Yes, because nothong says friendship like moving a clenched fist towards aoneone.

> Anyone who thinks it's low class or idiotic,
> that's their problem

Using a widely recognized symbol of aggression is not friendly.

Looking as if you're hiding something in your hand you've just stolen isn't friendship either.

* Someone

I accept any hand (or other body part) offered with friendly intent.

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I accept any hand (or other body part) offered
> with friendly intent.

Trying to think of other friendly gestures we might offer along the same lines:

* Forked fingers jabbed towards the eyes - the "See You".
* Swift move of head in jerking motion, narrowly avoiding head of friend - the "Half Japanese".
* Cupped hand moving up towards groin area - the "Swinger".

I like high-fives better. They are just as exuberant, but easier on the knuckles.

I like a pat on the butt, with maybe a little squeezing thrown in for effect. But I only pat back, I don't initiate!

I just go around sticking gold stars on the foreheads of people that I like.

I find that fist bumping damages my CTR rings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 01:42PM by messygoop.

lol @ messygoop. Damaging CTR rings!

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Sandwiches



wat is this thred about ? ~



thx ~

Things that were looked down upon when they were first introduced. Picking up your food and eating it out of your hands was considered uncouth and low class by a lot of people at the time. Manual laborers who packed a lunch ate out of their hands. Total lack of class.

I was at BYU when rock dances were banned from campus for a year or two. 1966 I believe. That was special. It was a real boon to dance venues in downtown Provo.

Most American pop culture music after the Civil War had roots in the black community, and it was pretty much uniformly met with hostility by the upper, which is to say white, classes. Stride piano, then ragtime, jazz, blues, bebop, r&b, rock and roll, rap.

The fist bump is probably looked down on at least in part because it originated in the black community. Except for Jordan, who is affronted, affronted, I say, by fingers pointed the wrong direction in a fist bump.

Oh, the humanity!

What's the category for problems so trivial they don't even deserve the name "first world problem"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/16/2019 08:15PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Things that were looked down upon when they were
> first introduced. Picking up your food and eating
> it out of your hands was considered uncouth and
> low class by a lot of people at the time. Manual
> laborers who packed a lunch ate out of their
> hands. Total lack of class.
>
> I was at BYU when rock dances were banned from
> campus for a year or two. 1966 I believe. That was
> special. It was a real boon to dance venues in
> downtown Provo.
>
> Most American pop culture music after the Civil
> War had roots in the black community, and it was
> pretty much uniformly met with hostility by the
> upper, which is to say white, classes. Stride
> piano, then ragtime, jazz, blues, bebop, r&b, rock
> and roll, rap.
>
> The fist bump is probably looked down on at least
> in part because it originated in the black
> community. Except for Jordan, who is affronted,
> affronted, I say, by fingers pointed the wrong
> direction in a fist bump.
>
> Oh, the humanity!
>
> What's the category for problems so trivial they
> don't even deserve the name "first world problem"?

Thank you!

"Picking up your food and eating it out of your hands was considered uncouth and low class by a lot of people at the time"

That's another step backwards. We used to eat with cutlery for a reason. It's called basic hygiene. Many people don't bother to wash their hands before doing so either.

Junk food restaurants offer touchscreens nowadays. Some recent tests found some of them are supposedly coated in fecal bacteria. (If anyone doubts me, look this up online. It does sound a bit of an urban legend.). So you're covering your fingers with that stuff and then that goes onto your food. No doubt they've introduced these into schools somewhere.

Do you know why that's been encouraged? Because it means restaurants save money and time on washing up. Also, probably because on a subliminal level it encourages a form of infantilism, which associates the meal with comfort.

"The fist bump is probably looked down on at least in part because it originated in the black community"

I'm unaware of this being a "black thing". It's always been white middle class poseurs who have tried this on me. The black people I know don't do this.

But look at what you're saying. It's a F.I.S.T. - that is an almost universal and primitive symbol of aggression. Much like showing your teeth or pushing your chest into someone.

Jordan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> But look at what you're saying. It's a F.I.S.T. -
> that is an almost universal and primitive symbol
> of aggression. Much like showing your teeth or
> pushing your chest into someone.


Ok, you got me there. I show my teeth to people every day. It's called a smile.
It's so odd that you accuse people of aggression where there is none. I feel that your words are hateful, snooty, and aggressive. Of course, you will write a hateful, aggressive answer to my opinion.

I did write a reply, but it was deleted. The short version is that there is a difference between a smile and gritting your teeth or snarling. Even chimps have these particular facial expressions so they probably date back before human existence.

It's amazing to me that you can distinguish the difference here, but not so much between a fist bump and a right hook.

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's amazing to me that you can distinguish the
> difference here, but not so much between a fist
> bump and a right hook.

Can you differentiate between a clenched fist and a clenched fist?

ziller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Sandwiches
>
>
>
> wat is this thred about ? ~
>
>
>
> thx ~


Male dominance

I'm with BoJ, Humberto and Saucie on this. Every culture has its gestures, and I don't see anything wrong with any of them.

For a long time Asians didn't want to shake hands. Why touch someone's unwashed hands when a simple bow would do? But they eventually got over their prejudice (and probably suffered an increase in the common cold as a result).

When years ago I first started going to my current gym, I was confronted by younger people with extensive tattoos and more piercings than I prefer whose first inclination upon meeting was to bump fists. It was awkward for me, so with some laughter they graciously shifted to more established greetings. No slaves to cultural norms, they.

Anyway, I have over the years learned how to do a passable imitation of a fist bump, and I am grateful for their welcoming me into their community.

Don't get me onto all that "gimme five" trash. I'll do it with small children to keep them happy, when we're playing together, but it looks awkward when men in their fifties do it.

> Don't get me onto all that "gimme five"
> trash. I'll do it with small children
> to keep them happy, when we're playing
> together, but it looks awkward when
> men in their fifties do it.
>

I see a problem for you. Instead of saying "...but it looks awkward when men...", you ought to say, "...but I think it looks awkward when men..."

See the difference? In the first example, your way, it comes across as you being the arbiter of custom and tradition, as if you're expecting everyone to acknowledge you as such and to then hurry to get in line behind you.

In the second example, you're simply saying, "here's what I think" and then people can just placidly ignore you. Saves wear and tear all around!

Love this. Thank you for reminding people that other people have a right to their cultural norms. This includes "low class" poor people. Most of this thread has a toxic "us vs. them" tone to it. When it comes to different ways people live life, communicate with their groups, and express themselves, privileged groups need to remember the world doesn't revolve around their standards. The "I think" piece you mentioned is huge because it becomes relatable and removes the barrier of condescension.

>>When it comes to different ways people live life, communicate with their groups, and express themselves, privileged groups need to remember the world doesn't revolve around their standards.

It took me a very long time to ascribe the benign word, "culture" to such differences. Different communities have different cultures.

anon2828 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Love this. Thank you for reminding people that
> other people have a right to their cultural norms.
> This includes "low class" poor people.

Guess what? I don't come from a rich family. A lot of things are "let off" for being working class. When I criticized fan violence at sports, I was accused by someone of being a snob - in which world is assaulting a stranger at random acceptable? How is that a class thing? You could argue that those things hold poor people back instead of helping them. There are a lot of addiction problems among poor people that result from their living conditions, but how many reasonable people think poor people should suffer the effects of addiction and all the violence and crime that can go with it.

Just because some poor people do something doesn't make it automatically right. And just because rich people do something doesn't make it right. Many rich people are uncouth - take a look at how some Russian oligarchs behave.

Why are Mormons so crazy about shaking hands? I recently worked with a guy who wanted to constantly shake my hand and suggested we have our own unique handshake. I didn't mind shaking his hand when I first met him but after a while I grew weary of the creepy handshake every time I saw him and I finally told him to stop - that I didn't like shaking hands. I later found out he was a Mormon. That explained the obsessive hand shaking.

Mormons overdo handshaking, without a doubt! I think it may be to do with grips. You know... "that handshake".

Hi. I'm back. Did some research on the history of fist bumps.

But first, some more about music and racism and BYU. I was in the dorms, and my floor head resident was also the chair of the BYU central dance committee or whatever it was officially called. Kids were starting to do dances where the partners did not touch, and there was way too much gyration than the Board of Trustees (the Q15) could countenance.

As I recall (and I don't claim to recall it very well. I went on a mission in the middle of all this) dances were tightly controlled in 1965, and dance monitors would ask students to leave if they were too suggestive.

That went over like a lead balloon, and the next year I believe dances were banned on campus altogether, except maybe formal dances. I think Brian Waterman did a book about the history of BYU protests or something. Perhaps that has the details. I believe one of the places created by that ban was called "The Blue Terrace". Anyone remember that place?

I just googled "Ezra Taft Benson jungle music" and got plenty of hits. People like Ezra and Mark E Peterson unselfconsciously referred to rock and roll as "jungle music".

Here, this is from 2011, but it quotes Ezra. This will give you a feel for the mood of the times and the level of dog-whistle racism about savage "jungle music" arousing animalistic passions yada yada yada.

https://www.mormonchronicle.com/satans-music-rock-and-other-babylonian-hymns/


But back to fist bumps.
http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1812102,00.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fist_bump

Looks like there are several origins. It was popular and cricket players in India, and later spread to the world cricket community. It was also used in boxing and hockey because of the gloves. Tiger Woods adopted it after botching a high-five on national television, and found a fist bump more manageable.

Jordan made much up-thread about a fist bump being inherently hostile and a symbol of aggression. This seems absurd if you've actually seen a fist bump. The circumstances seem considerably more convivial than the average handshake. Rather than hostile, it looks to me like a sign of congratulation, with a strong overtone of the fist symbolizing "I got your back, bro". In fact, "bro fist" is one of its nicknames.

The most famous fist bump ever was between Barack and Michelle Obama in june 2008, when he was running for president. Fox News host E D Hill called it a "terrorist fist jab". Fox later apologized for the comment.

SLTrib editorial cartoonist Pat Bagley did a semi-famous cartoon about the incident, which he went on to used as the cover cartoon/title of a collection of his cartoons: The Fist Bump Heard 'Round the World.

https://www.amazon.com/Fist-Bump-Heard-Round-World/dp/0980140625



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2019 01:08AM by Brother Of Jerry.

I don't think anyone cares anymore.

To the contrary.

Thanks, BoJ. What you describe has been my experience as well. It is congratulatory, warm-hearted, human.

I just noted several of the terms that critics of fist bumping use to describe that gesture in this thread. Those terms include:

"low class,"
"backwards,"
"aggressive,"
"degenerate,"
"idiotic,"
"primitive."
"a symbol of shall we say, ethnic and low socioeconomic classes."

When accused of implicit racism, one poster protested that he had never experienced fist bumping from black people but only from "white middle class poseurs." But the word "poseur" means a pretender, someone who is trying to be something he is not. So if "white middle class" people are doing the fist bump in order to affect the characteristics of some other ethnic group, precisely who are that other ethnic group? And is it coincidental that that the same poster disapproves of "high fives," another gesture that had its origins on the fields--and the courts--of play?

My point is that sometimes you can glean more from social criticism about the critics themselves than about what they are critizing. Terms like "shall we say" may enable those malcontents to avoid using the actual pejorative they are implying, but most people can read between the lines.

To the extent that that is true in this instance, I'd suggest that some serious reflection may be in order. We all left an explicitly racist faith. It would be a pity if we shed the religion but not the prejudice.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2019 03:43AM by Lot's Wife.

Thanks LW. In case anyone thought that this thread was really about fist bumps, see above...

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks LW. In case anyone thought that this
> thread was really about fist bumps, see above...

Actually it is about "fist bumps".

When someone overcompensates for something though, it shows they have something to hide. When someone goes on about how protesting tasteless gestures is a form of racism, they may well be overcompensating for their own unconscious tendencies.

And when someone says that a culture should be represented by its less glorious aspects, then they have a lot to answer for. I remember an Indian telling me how annoying it was for him that Bollywood movies were used as a shorthand for Indian culture in the west, because he saw them as mass produced trash and a poor representation of a richer deeper culture. In the same way, we see people here who want to stereotype black people as "gangsta" and represent their wider culture by using criminal elements. It's a bit like treating Italian Americans as if they're all in the Mafia.

If it's really about fist bumps, why did you just go on rant about racism?

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it's really about fist bumps, why did you just
> go on rant about racism?

Because other people seem to think that condemning fist bumps means that I'm condemning black culture in general. I don't condemn them for that reason.

As I've repeatedly said, I've never had a black person do this to me. I didn't even connect it with them originally, I just find it an annoying and gauche gesture.

You've got to love the people who claim they love black people so much seem to want to have them represented by a seedy criminal subculture that activists distance themselves from.

Here it is again. . .

> we see people here who want to stereotype black people as
> "gangsta" and represent their wider culture by using criminal
> elements.

Who here wants to do that? It appears to be you who are associating these images.


------------
> You've got to love the people who claim they love
> black people so much seem to want to have them
> represented by a seedy criminal subculture . . .

"A seedy criminal subculture." I can't see anyone in this thread who has made such an association--other than you and perhaps nolongerangry.

Why do these images keep arising in your mind, Jordan? Why are you so uncomfortable with them that you keep falsely ascribing them to others?


---------------
There are people here who are black, or Latino, or Native American, or Asian, or any mix of those things. There were people whose spouses and children are of mixed race. Don't presume that we will sit back and let you spew your bile without challenge.

Let's look at this from another perspective... people need to be mindful when engaging in gestures - whether kind or otherwise - that involve touching others.

I worked at a big tech company years ago. I remember a nice male employee barely tapping a woman on the shoulder during a conversation and she reacted by shouting, "don't touch me!" It startled everyone. She told him she did not like being touched. We all thought she was a little crazy but it made me realize that not everyone did like being touched. A kind tap on the shoulder or fistbump may be a friendly gesture to one but very uncomfortable and unwelcome to another. For me, I prefer to just say "hi" to someone. Save the touching gestures for good friends and others you are familiar with and who are okay with it. Don't assume that work colleagues and others are comfortable with it, even if they return the gesture.

As far as the OP's comment about fistbumping being "tacky and low class," I don't see that at all. I see it as nothing more than a friendly gesture. I don't initiate it because I will not assume that everyone welcomes it.

Back slapping - now there's a whole other topic. I'll probably be accused of being a snob or a racist if I point out many people don't like a heavy, unexpected slap on the back.

Since you seem inexplicably bewildered by the difference between friendly gestures and hostile intent, it's no surprise that you are confused by the difference between consensual and non consensual contact.

I never brought race into it. Not sure why it is even being discussed here.

Yesterday at 09:18 AM, nolongerangry wrote:

> . . . the fistbump is a symbol of shall we say, ethnic and
> low socioeconomic classes.

I think we've located the problem. Your sentence sounds, shall we say, racist?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2019 03:31PM by Lot's Wife.

nolongerangry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I never brought race into it. Not sure why it is
> even being discussed here.

Because the accepted origin of fistbumping is (correctly, I think) attributed to the black community.

And because, as this thread developed, similar racial/cultural attributions were introduced (not always about black peoples specifically, but certainly about widespread American cultural assumptions regarding relative social class standing vis-à-vis race and ethnicity).

You brought it up when you wrote, "exactly, the fistbump is a symbol of shall we say, ethnic and low socioeconomic classes."

FYI, "ethnic" is a synonym for "racial and race-related."

Sorry, Lot's wife, I was writing my comment probably at the same time you were writing yours so I was not aware that you posted something similar until after I posted mine. I try not to parrot what someone else wrote.

No worries, heartbroken. I'm glad the point is obvious to you as well as me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/2019 03:42PM by Lot's Wife.