In the old endowment presentation people were called "sons and daughters." This has been changed in the new improved presentation to God calling them "My women and my men." I find this most distressing. I know it sounds politically but for God to talk about "his women and his men" just rubs me the wrong way.
I can not see Hustle Russel coming up with this on his own and his lighted pen. And I just can't think God would speak that type of language.
I notice there is no more reference to Satan's apron and his powers in the new improved presentation. Looks like Satan's role has been dumbed down too.
How could the Church have taught me so many incorrect concepts when I went to the temple in the late 60's. I think I deserve an explanation for these changes in their teaching because I was a good student back then and learned my lessons well.No wonder the Church is not growing here in Ontario Canada but shrinking.
Maybe they're writing the 'mature' people off, expecting to dip in numbers and then stage a resurgence when the majority of us who remember the 'old' church die off.
They could be reinventing the church, with the expectation that their new, improved church will flourish. Which makes sense when you consider that there's no way the old church will ever make a comeback.
They'll have the un-dated essays (What? Hide things, us?), they'll have a lot of heavy-handed gaslighting in place, they'll have the new, friendly, egalitarian temple ordinances, etc., etc.
They are playing the long game. They have to, because the short game is totally lost.
The word on the street is that they are looking at 20,000 fewer mission calls this year than expected.
Just guessing, but maybe Hustle Russell didn't like Satan having the most interesting role in the temple play. If you ever saw the live actor version, geriatric Adam & Eve could never compete with ol' scratch.
and I didn't go enough to even remember what was said. My women and my men. I've never liked being called a woman for some reason. I like my name or mom or whatever. My name. I don't even like lady or mrs or ms or whatever.
I don't know why, but it just sounds odd.
Of course, it wasn't his pen, it was Wendy's. She probably is the one who writes it down while he is sleeping and then has him convinced he wrote it in his sleep.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2019 07:19PM by cl2.
Toronto Boy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- This has been changed > in the new improved presentation to God calling > them "My women and my men." >
Men are the ones leaving LDSinc in droves.
The women are staying.
The Brethern are catering to women.
Mormon wards are 2/3ds female. This is in line with most Christian denominations. Male leadership, mostly female membership who pay the bulk of the tithes and are the most loyal attendees. Churches tend to cater to women. See Brian Murrow's Why Men Hate Going to Church.
Women have been complaining about the temple ceremony for years, saying it makes them feel second-class,
This wording change in the temple is to cater to women.
who thought every element of the temple ritual was there to teach them deep truths and spent hours and hours that turned into years and years thinking up ways that the various elements could be interpreted as symbolizing deep truths?
Turns out they were wasting their time?
Turns out that they were straining to see the fine clothing that the Emperor was wearing when in fact there was no clothing to see and Emperor was actually as naked as a jaybird?
Turns out they were dupes and suckers?
Turns out they paid 10% of their gross annual income in exchange for a bunch of doofy handshakes that were plagiarized from the Masons...and had to pay extra for the goofy underwear?
Turns out that nothing in the temple ceremony was eternal or essential and that the business managers in charge of managing the temple business can change anything they want whenever they want and don't even need to pretend that it's "by revelation"??
Tell me it ain't so. You mean it wasn't actually God (the supreme being and omniscient, omnipotent Lord and Master of the entire universe and beyond) who wanted everyone to grope around with a mystery man behind a curtain every time they went to the temple? It wasn't really a being so powerful that he could snuff out the entire world with just a thought who wanted people to pantomime their own disembowelment and throat slitting?
Could it also be that God doesn't really care what kind of underwear you wear? I guess we'll have to wait and see what Wendy's husband thinks. No point thinking for ourselves about it. Until Russell says yay or nay, you'd just better keep on wearing your church-issued underwear.
every time somebody uses their name in the temple. Maybe it's like a big red flashing light and buzzer that goes off in their dormitory room. Buzz! Buzz! Buzz!....Buzz! Buzz! Buzz!
"Damn it...or me...or damn something! This is the 37th time this month! Don't they know I'm trying to get some spirit rest here in the spirit halfway house?? Sheesh! I would like to reach my disembodied hands through the veil just once and wring one of their embodied necks! I don't need to be proxy dunked 1,000 times. Once is enough!"
That doesn’t sound natural. If I was in attendance , I’d have to keep from laughing. There’s enough of other stuff to laugh about there already. I also don’t like being called “ woman “. I’m on other blogs, where I’m called “ sir” because I don’t correct people when they call me that. It doesn’t bother me. It’s kind of a compliment, in a way, if they think I’m a guy. It’s mainly on sports or political blogs.
I am interested to know more about this. Is the "men and women" phrase used throughout the endowment ceremony, or just in a particular place?
I am actually a little sad to hear that Lucifer's apron and his "powers and priesthoods" (plural!) have been removed. That little tidbit really captured my interest and fed a little bit of the craving for "meaty" deep doctrine that was never really satisfied in the church. Everything was just so shallow! (Cue Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper.)
I've been out for 13 years. Seems like it just keeps getting shallower and shallower.
Lucifer’s apron was cool looking. It was black with a purple checkerboard on it. Obviously the old endowment ceremony came from people into esoteric spiritualism. The endowment is nothing more than Free Masonry, occultism and free masonry mixed together.
I think because people are sneaking cameras into the temple and posting the footage on YouTube the church leadership will continue to water down the endowment ceremony.
It will be interesting to see what happens in 20 years. Maybe the endowment will be nothing more than learning the four handshakes and then giving them to a robotic hand at the veil.
Hmmm. I wonder if they are trying to imply they are treating people like grown ups instead of children?
It rubs me wrong too when a religion teaches THEY are God's special ones. At least God didn't say "my people" which would also be disappointing.
It does have a political or PC ring to me.
Maybe they want to morph teachings about Jesus and God the Father to better align with other Christians. If they get away from teaching we are sons and daughters of God the Father and Jesus is just some brother associated with Earth, it wouldn't be as weird to some Christians. They want a change in the narrative for some reason. Who knows.
So, for years the Mormon church has been telling us we are Children of God. Isn't that why we've been called His sons and daughters? I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Now if God is going to refer to me as his Woman...that is something entirely different. It doesn't sound right. I wouldn't want my dad referring to his daughters as his women. Sounds very incestuous.
The words "sons and daughters" refer to a relationship. A 90-year-old woman is still the "daughter" of her parents.
If anything, changing the intimate, familial "sons and daughters" (and the implications associated with being God's children) to the clinical and cold "my men and women" is a huge demotion. Slaves can be referred to as "my men and women". Soldiers in the military can be referred to by a superior officer as "my men and women."
Would you rather be one of the king's "sons and daughters" or just one of the king's disposable "men and women"?
The leaders really are flailing around like idiots at this point. Is anyone with any common sense still in charge or is the church being run off a cliff by a series of Wendy brain farts and Sheri brain farts and Rusty brain farts being passed off as "revelations".
I suspect the latter, and I think it's time to order more popcorn. Because I think maximum stupid is still ahead. We ain't seen nothin' yet.
as you explained to me why I feel the way I do about them saying women and men. Yes, I can just see my dad calling me his woman. Do the members hear this and not wonder WHAT?
I don't want my boyfriend to call me his woman.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2019 11:31AM by cl2.
“My women” and “my men” is used in one part of ceremony instead of sons and daughters. That’s all I can say or I may have to cut my heart out. I went to temple when we did this symbolic stuff.
I am not God’s man. I am his son. So somehow this just rubbed me the wrong way.
Something is going on with the top 15 guys. I can not believe the stuff and the wording that has changed. It gives a whole different meaning to what has been taught up to this point. And they give no explanation. It seems to have been dumbed down. And the audio visual part I would give a letter grade C
At this point the attitude among the top leaders whenever they discuss changing basic things around is basically: "Don't worry about it. We can dish out any garbage we want and the idiots will not only buy it, they will pay extra for it if we tell them it's special."
"My sons, daughters, and nonbinary persons, will you now covenant and promise to, you know, sort of be cool to one another. Oh, and you also should covenant to support the church once in a while, you know, at least throw in a few spare dollars if you can. But, you totally don't have to if that doesn't work for you! Bow your heads, if you like, and say I DO!"
"Okay, now there's some cookies in the other room and I know you all want to get out of here as quickly as possible, so we'll just open up this curtain and you might as well come on through. No one ever remembers that damn 2nd token anyway! There's a stack of printouts with all the keys and tokens you need on the table. We'd have more of them but the printer quit on us."
"Anyone who wishes to pay their tithing, if you feel like it, there's an Amazon Square contactless reader on the way out the door, just wave your Recommend-Visa over it and the correct amount will be deducted from your account instantly based upon your preferences. Again, totally no pressure!"
"Those of you going through the Endowment virtually at home can just click on the little token icon in the upper left corner of your screen, it'll show you all the key words and so forth. Good luck, Inshallah!"
xxMo0 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 2025 version > > "My sons, daughters, and nonbinary persons, will > you now covenant and promise to, you know, sort of > be cool to one another.......Good luck, Inshallah!"
MHaha hilarious, xxMoo!!! Thanks!!! I couldn’t pick a favorite part so I’ve quoted you from first to last!!!
It sounds very corporate and impersonal, which strikes me as befitting of Robohim.
From my memory of it, the God presented in the LDS endowment is very buttoned down, stiff, and mechanical. It is as if he's screaming: "Everything is proceeding according to a neatly unfolding plan--trust me!"
"My women and my men". Just when I think nothing can surprise me, along comes this little ditty. I wonder if they will change " each of you bow your heads and say yes", to "Yes Sir!!"
I agree, that's a very strange change. I get why they switched the gender order, having women first before so they can appear less sexist but changing God from calling us his children to "my women and my men" is very odd change.
Someone who still has attend the temple should just ask the temple workers why that change was made, haha.
Making that change drops a term of endearment, and it loses the personal relationship factor as sons and daughters of a loving heavenly father. The latter was a term denoting affection and a bond between parent and child. TSCC is stripping that away by this change. It really isn't such a small detail at all to go unnoticed. It is another means of the cult diluting itself to where it is becoming unrecognizable to its own members, and impersonal and detached from a relationship to the Creator it purports to worship.
This is not an inspired change, I don't see how it can be. It is more proof the cult is run by a group of fallible and senile old men who don't know what the hell they're doing to the church by the changes except running it further into it own apostasy from itself, and demise.
If this is another of Nelson's or Wendy's bird brain ideas, then give credit where it is due. They are single-handedly making some of the dumbest mistakes, and why? Because they can. No one questions them. They have pretty much absolute authority to run the cult into the ground. And they are by these dumbass changes.
"Making that change drops a term of endearment, and it loses the personal relationship factor as sons and daughters of a loving heavenly father. The latter was a term denoting affection and a bond between."--Amyjo
My sentiments, exactly!
"My women and my men" make us seem more like God and the cult's POSSESSIONS, doesn't it. This fits in with the big business CEO vs minion slave relationship.
Nelson, who preaches that "unconditional love is anti-Christ", is doing his best to strip all the love away from the Mormon cult.
The further away they get from Love, the further away they get from God and Christ.