Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: dazed and confused ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 08:58PM

I recently found out that my son's mormon friends have been "teaching" him about the church. Also found out there is a mormon girl who has caught his eye. Sadly I can see where this is going.

I am thinking about inviting the missionaries to my house to teach him the discussions -- figured, he is going to hear it anyway, at least in my home I can be present when he does hear it and then (hopefully) have some good discussions with him afterwards about what they teach him (and possibly ask some very pointed questions in a non-confrontational manner to draw out their true nature).

Is this a good idea or is there something else I should do? I want to hopefully help him see the whole picture of mormonism so he can make a truly educated decision about joining and not an emotional/feeling decision.

A little bit of back story - my wife and I quit attending before he was born and had our names removed last year. I served a mission and we were married in the temple. He is aware of our feelings about the church and that we are former members. Since we left, we have not practiced a religion in our home.

Thank you in advance for your comments.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:08PM

Just wondering about his age. Mormon girls USUALLY don't date nonmormons to marry. She could very well convert him and then dump him.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:12PM

Yes, if he’s going to or is hearing about it anyway,Id definitely want to know what he’s being told ,and his reaction and questions that he may have. I’d want to be there and make sure he’s not fed lies or they’re bending the truth and not telling him everything,
Bring the missionaries over and ask the questions that you’d want your son to hear. I’d be nervous , who knows what they’re telling him and avoiding telling him
Put them on the spot, bring up all the dirt on the history of the church

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dazed and confused ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:13PM

btw -- he is 17 years old.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:18PM

Your situation reminds me of the good ol' days of the Iron Curtain, when parents would ask their children what they learned in school today--then would un-teach them.

An idea: Invite the mishies in, and let them deliver the lessons. Attend and avoid being confrontational, but take notes. At a later time, after you've done your research, share your take with your son. At 17, he needs to start understanding things and applying his own critical thinking scales--and yes, biases, too.

Also inform him what he can expect in a typical LDS relationship--and marriage. And, for that matter, an LDS life, issues such as callings, tithing, etc. Discuss the Word of Wisdom over a nice pot of coffee or a beer, if he's been introduced (by you) to alcohol.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 03:26PM

Make sure to add in the temple. Look up the videos or look for posts here about the temple so he knows what he'll be in for if he decides to marry an LDS girl in the temple.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:20PM

If he is heading towards a hormonal conversion, I doubt it will make any difference. In that case, he isn't thinking rationally about whether or not TSCC is true, or whether or not is doctrine makes any sense, or what its history is.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dazed and confused ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:42PM

You wrote what I was afraid to think. I thought back when I was dating my wife and how brain dead I really was to everything going on around me.

I guess I can hope, if he does convert, that he eventually will see the light and that his wife will be as awesome as mine was and follow me out.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: outta the cult ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 10:05PM

If he does convert for her, she'll either (a) quickly cast him aside, having successfully played her "flirt to convert" role, or (b) start with the "I'll only date RMs" to get him thinking about [gasp!] a mission.

Warn him on what's about to happen. He'll be amazed at your prescience. He's 17; does he even know about missions? Explain to him exactly what he might be getting himself into, what will be expected: the regimentation and utter control; two years of life wasted; and the probability that his fantasy mormon GF will certainly dump his convert butt for a BIC while he's away. And of course, under no circumstances are you going to pay for it.

In any event, don't allow him to get baptized before he turns 18.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: alyssum ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 05:15PM

If you forbid him, he will likely just become REALLY curious. I don't think telling him he can't get baptized until he his 18 is wise... 17 is pretty mature for most people. They know when they are being treated like children by most of society, and will resent it. They will be more likely to do something rebellious just to show that they are mature enough to do so.

I think being involved and having deep, meaningful discussions is one of the best things you could do. It will possibly inoculate him against more than just the Mormons-- he will improve his critical thinking skills and deception radar. Instead of just hiding behind your fears by issuing a parental edict, you will show him that you care about him and respect him enough to spend the time listening and talking.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2019 05:16PM by alyssum.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:22PM

The church claims are logically unsustainable. He would have to do what the mormon kids do, ignore common sense and reality.

Does he have any LBGTQXYZ friends? Cuz then it would be easy...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dazed and confused ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:45PM

Good point elderolddog -- very clear that common sense and reality have gone out the window with his mormon friends.

No LBGTQ friends that I am aware of, however one I suspect is gay who happens to be preparing to submit his mission papers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 10:02PM

in 4 links to pics of mormon gril ~


thx ~

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dazed and confused ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 10:52PM

Any suggestions on how I would get in touch with the missionaries in my area? I know I could probably call the bishop of the area where I live -- however I would prefer not to get him or anyone from local leadership directly involved.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 10:59PM

Just go online and type in "I want a book of mormon!", then when you're linked to the appropriate site, type in your name and address. Mishies will soon show up at your door...

Or you could go to http://lifey.org/lds-missions/ and find your mission and call the mission home.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dazed and confused ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 11:25PM

Thanks elderolddog!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 11:29PM

dazed and confused Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks elderolddog!


There's a 15% discount if you pay my bill for services rendered within 15 days...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 03:28PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 11:33PM

Options, Dazed... can you buy him a drum set or guitar right quick? French lessons with the promise of a trip to Paris? Scuba diving?

I hate to see you abandon your son to the cult! If you could get him interested in something where he isn’t just with cult members you could break their stranglehold on him.

What about ballet lessons? Yes guys can take them—my cousin started after college where he was one of only three guys, all the rest were gorgeous ladies who he happily dated till he met his ballerina now-wife.

Just please think about treating your son to some new, challenging experiences before letting the cult be his life...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 11:35PM

Holy Schizer, you are one devious child of ghawd!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 11:42PM

who was clearly taking the lessons because his Mormon fiance and her family insisted on it.

She was a looker and her family was wealthy. The guy also had movie star looks...and he was so eager to marry the girl that he was fine with everything.

Me: "Joseph Smith got those golden plates and translated them by the gift and power of God, using the Urine & Thumb-in."

The guy: "Cool! Urine & Thumb-in!"

Me: "So Brother Leebeedo, how does it make you feel to know that our heavenly father has called prophets to guide us in these latter days?


The guy: "Cool! Latter-day prophets and urines and thumb-ins! I think it's fantastic. I'm down with it...or up for it...you know what I mean. When can I get baptized? Nancy looks so hawt...I mean she's so spiritual and I just want to be her forever husband."

Even as a missionary who was still trying hard to be a true believer, I always had misgivings about that baptism. He always said the right things and committed to everything. But it was painfully obvious that he was just doing it all to make "Nancy" happy. If I had to guess, he's probably totally inactive by now. Once the honeymoon is over and he realized it's all about wearing funny church underwear, sitting through endless hours of boring meetings and paying 10% on gross income, I'd guess the enthusiasm he felt when he was horny as hell evaporated quite quickly. But who knows? She was a looker.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 05:33AM

Personally, I would NOT involve the missionaries. That action will officially put your son on the church's radar. Instead, I would educate him. Put him on Mormon Think and go over the material with him. Talk about how Mormons "flirt to convert," and how, as a convert, he would always likely be treated as lesser than. Show him what taking ten percent of his income would mean in terms of lifetime wealth and saving for retirement. Show him the garments and temple videos. Explain how Mormons might want to control what music he listens to and what movies he watches. Tell him about bishop interviews and how he might be asked about masturbation. Etc.

Does your son drink coffee or tea? I started drinking both as a teen and knew that there was no way I would ever give up those habits for any church.

As a teen, a Mormon convert friend of mine brought a church film/filmstrip to my high school comparative religions class. I was skeptical when the film presented Joseph Smith as a modern prophet,
and at the explanation of the Urim and Thummin, but I wanted to howl with laughter when the narrator said that the angel took the golden plates away. How convenient!

Teens have a good sense of the absurd. Play to that.

Also, if you are planning to send your son to college, you might consider looking at schools that are some distance from home.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2019 05:35AM by summer.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 06:24AM

Are we talking about a minor child? Be the parent. These mormons are not in charge of you or your son.

Have you laid a groundwork to warn your child about cult entanglements? If not, you need to make up for lost time.

Don't invite missionaries to your home. They are not your friends.

Teach your child to say no. It's a valuable lessons which could save his life.

I've met and read about dozens of converts who were baptized at that age. The parents did little or nothing to stop it because they thought the kids would eventually see through it. Some of them did, but it was often years later after they'd banned parents from their temple weddings and had married TBMs and trained children to mistrust non-mormon grandparents.

Step up and take this seriously.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2019 07:44AM by Cheryl.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mikemitchell ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 06:51AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: 12345 ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 04:32PM

Follow Cheryl’s advice!

The LDS church is all about “bait and switch”. I felt like I joined one church and later left a completely different one, because the Mormon church turned out to be so shockingly different from the way it had been presented to me as an “investigator” (a person who is looking into the possibility of joining the Mormon church.)

In no way does the Mormon church want to be forthright with its beliefs and expectations so that investigators can make an informed decision about whether to join the church or not. Mormon leaders and missionaries know very well that if they were fully honest with investigators about what the church *really* believes and about how much time, money, and free service it eventually demands from its members, no one would join!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 11:38AM

That is rough. Does he know of your involvement before his birth?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 10:13AM

Give him the talk Don Corleone gave to Michael. “I never wanted this for you...”. Can you do the voice? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fuWkcKbBQkg

Being “in the life” may be enjoyable for a while, but it’s a recipe for disaster. Your son is going to have to either suspend reason his whole life or have it come crashing down. The love bombing is temporary. It’s not real because the cult has ulterior motives. The reason it seems too good to be true is because it is.

If his friends offered him drugs and you knew, you’d step in and say something, right? Tell him this is a similar situation. Plus you went through it so you know what you’re talking about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2019 10:17AM by babyloncansuckit.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: shylock ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 12:23PM

Don't invite the mishies or any of them into your home... If he works start asking him for 10% of his wages... start making Sunday's long and boring for him. Send him across town to do pointless jobs... like pick up a box of crackers from the store 20 miles away. Buy him some nice long johns underwear and have him wear them under his clothes and to bed for a few weeks... Take him to the nearest town and have him spend all day knocking on doors... call him in for a "special" purity meeting and talk to him about the grave dangers of masturbation... give him the royal Mormon treatment! When he sees what he is actually missing he will be great-full he dodged that bullet!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 12:32PM

Wally's story from his mission is instructive. With a shining 3-D image, in living, breathing color firmly in place, knowledge and logic go out the window.

So in this case, let's follow what we know would happen, mormologically:

Totally smitten with the girl, and wanting to please her by joining, getting the lessons from the missionaries is the next step. And if it is the next step, having the lessons in the home, where the OP can monitor won't do a darn thing because anything that would upset obtaining the goal will be ignored.

So he enters the waters of baptism and...

And that's as far as we can take it with any degree of certainty. She could immediately dump him, or it could go to the other extreme, Mission, Marriage, BYU, career in CES, becomes a GA and his conference talks are wildly popular...


How can a person gain a testimony of the lie the church is when believing the lie is what the heart (and glands) desire?

Most of us have loved ones who won't see the truth and you want to make that our fault?

The boy is 17, probably just finished his junior year, and all he can think about is how good he feels when he's with her. Even being in Sac Meeting with her is wonderful!

Ethically (definitely not my wheelhouse), OP is in a tough spot. He's looking for creative things to do NOW, not a rehash of what people think he did wrong.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 04:08PM

I wasn’t brain dead at 17. If she hasn’t given it up, he has a fighting chance.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: momjeans ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 03:37PM

Move! ASAP.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Notmonomo ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 04:15PM

Do you know the girl he is interested in very well? I’m just wondering if you would feel comfortable meeting with her parents. Could you meet with them and respectfully explain your position? “I was once a member of TSCC, and while I respect your beliefs completely, I do not want my minor son to be pressured into committing to ANYTHING at such an impressionable age”. Explain that you want him to make decision about religion for himself, and when he is older and has more life experience. If they are reasonable people, they may ask their daughter to back off. Of course they could say that “saving him” trumps your wishes (and everything else). But it would be great if they could be your ally in this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Notmonomo ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 04:22PM

Adding that I feel for you, OP. I think if you have/continue to educate your son about the dangers of this church/cult, then you’ve done what you can. Encourage him to read some of the heartbreaking stories on this board. Sadly, you can’t always save someone from themselves. I hope and pray things turn out well for you and him!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 04:25PM

As good mormon parents the young lady's parents have probably shown concern for their daughter's involvement with a non-mormon. I wonder what she has told them?

Maybe she is hiding it from her parents.

Maybe she's assured them that it's just a flirt to convert situation.

Maybe she feels she's in love, but has assured her parents that if he doesn't convert, she'll go on a mission, knowing he won't wait for her.

It would definitely be a bold step to simply 'confront' the parents. But how about a two-family outing, or simply going to the same event or parade and meeting up there?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: blueskyutah2 ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 05:17PM

Your son may have a twisted view of reality right now. Any teenager who is good at anything will be automatically propped up by the church/school/seminary/eyes of all the other teenagers. They will be used as a good example of how the church helps teenagers be successful.

Those being used are not aware enough to know that it is they are succeeding because of who they are rather than because of what they have been taught by the church. So they go along with it, unaware.

You son may be witnessing this phenomena and it may be natural for him to join with his like-minded teenage friends whose lives are completely intertwined with the religious society. So right now your son is missing out on 67 % of what they are experiencing. (33.3 % school, 33.3 % church activities, 33.3 % family activities centered on the church).

He probably doesn't really care about the 33.3 % family activities right now. So his interest in the church is purely mathematical. He sees it as full participation with the community that is the most important to him right now.

The question is... how are you going to stop this? The answer? It may actually be too late. You didn't know that you were responsible to make that other 67 % stronger than the pull of the cult. But you did, and it needed to start way sooner than now. He should already have a community of teenagers who participate socially that are not tied to the cult. He should already have a solid tie to his family and their activities that fulfills him more than those of his mormon cult friends.

Inviting missionaries will compound the issue. He will most likely see these young men as new role models to emulate and the draw will become even greater to join.

The fact that he is doing this secretly without your knowledge means he already knows you would not approve. His cult friends are basically stealing your child away from you. Be careful not to become the "bad example" in this. Everyone is good for something, even if it is a bad example. That is how you will be viewed if you don't play your cards exactly right. You, your spouse, your kids, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends,etc.. will need a united front. Otherwise, you will fail and he will join.

Sorry.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: bluebutterfly ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 06:25PM

Ugh...sorry to hear you are dealing with this. The cult getting its hooks into my children is a great fear of mine. My own parents already put in a solid effort to get their culty hooks into my daughter a few years ago! It freaked me out.

For the time being, they are still young enough that once I realized what was going on I was able to completely thwart the situation. Teenagers are a different story. As a teenager I was one foot out the door from tssc, so I only wanted to date nevermos. My parents did not like that. They were losing me and my chance at a 'celestial marriage' and there was NO WAY they were going to talk me out of it. Two of my sisters converted their boyfriends and I still feel terrible about it. One of them is still my bro-in-law and I KNOW he didn't know what he was getting himself into at the time and he is stuck because he loves my sister and their children they have together. If only someone could have talked some sense into him back then and warned him.

I would definitely NOT invite the mishies to your house for discussions. That will give your son mixed messages, and (as previously mentioned) they will put their efforts into you as well. I had to get my name removed just to get those damn persistent mishies out of my life. I felt totally harassed by them.

Anyway, if you can figure a way to expose him to the nasty underbelly of tssc so he can see what its all about is probably the best bet. Or maybe even someone else can...since teens don't want to listen to their parents. Do you have any exmo relatives or family friends?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 04:33PM

Maybe the girl is into guys who aren’t members. She might see non LDS boys as more fun to be around. Maybe deep down , she wants out the church, as a lot of young people seem to do now a days and sees your son as a ticket out if they fall in love and marry.
I hope she’s NOT in it just to convert him . That’ll crush him. If that’s all she is after though and he goes along with the conversion, his eyes will be opened.
I see nothing wrong with being there with him ,if he takes the discussions.
You can ask questions that you know will affect him and hopefully he’ll change his mind.
If he hears it only from you, he might think you’re exaggerating because you care about him and have his welfare in mind.
This way, he’ll hear it from the horses mouth and you can ask all the questions that you know you won’t find out until he’s begin a while.
He’s lucky to have someone caring that he doesn’t make the same mistake as you and most of us had made
Does he have any hobbies or interests that he’ll have to give up if he joins? You can bring that up

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 05:40PM

I wonder if the OP really wants advice and ideas, or only support for bringing the missionaries to the home?

IF the OP were truly open to hearing other ideas, the OP wouldn't have made a profane and uncalled for personal attack on Cheryl's sincere and thoughtful post.

The OP owes Cheryl an apology. If the OP only wants posts confirming decisions already made, everyone here who has contributed their time and efforts trying to help the OP, is wasting their time.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 05:58PM

mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if the OP really wants advice and ideas,
> or only support for bringing the missionaries to
> the home?

Sometimes people want help with Mormons when they feel there is no other recourse but to deal with them. I'm disappointed with the responses. Obviously, inviting the missionaries over doesn't sound like a good idea and I echo this sentiment but if they feel this is on their terms it might have been something to talk about and not pass judgement so quickly. I don't think they need to apologize.

RfM can be rough sometimes.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 10:35PM

Elder Berry wrote,

> I don't think they need to apologize...RfM can be rough sometimes.

The very first sticky guideline posted by Maude contains guidelines for posting.

While you may not think an apology is in order, the guidelines do not permit hurling curses at others simply because you do not agree with their sincerely expressed opinion. We are here to offer help and understanding to those struggling with Mormonism, Elder Berry, not to curse them out.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 06:09PM

I seldom see it here and when I do, it isn't hurled at another well meaning poster and there's usually a warning note as required by admin.

Rough place? Hmm, not a good excuse.

Thanks, Mel.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 06:44PM

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rough place? Hmm, not a good excuse.
>

I meant you not the OP.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 06:45PM

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rough place? Hmm, not a good excuse.

No, it is not an excuse. The guidelines clearly state the purpose of the Board is to provide help, support, and a place for people struggling with their Mormon faith to hear, and voice, doubts and opinions. Guidelines are clearly stated in the stickies. Hurling obscenities against someone because you disagree with their views, is not what the Board is about, as I understand it.

> Thanks, Mel.

You're very welcome, Cheryl. I'm sorry someone was so rude to you! :(
I always appreciate your interesting thoughts and posts.

Have a good day! :)
-Mel

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 06:44PM

mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The very first sticky guideline posted by Maude
> contains guidelines for posting.

Yeah, put a warning in your Subject line.

> While you may not think an apology is in order,
> the guidelines do not permit hurling curses at
> others simply because you do not agree with their
> sincerely expressed opinion. We are here to offer
> help and understanding to those struggling with
> Mormonism, Elder Berry, not to curse them out.

Where do you get this? You can tell someone off. There are politer ways. Calling names is a no, no. And are you talking about helping Cheryl out? I'm confused.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 06:55PM

Elder Berry Wrote:

> Where do you get this? You can tell someone off.

Actually, Elder Berry, personal attacks are not what the Board is about, it is about support and discussing ideas, disagreeing with ideas in a civilized manner. NOT hurling obscenities at others.

I believe you should review the Guidelines, personal attacks as perpetrated against Cheryl by the OP in his post of May 29, 2019 at 10:17 am are indeed against the rules. If you read the post you will see that because the OP disagreed with Cheryl's post, his last line descends to the lowest level of the schoolyard by insulting her in an obscenity.

I was expressing my opinion of your support for the OP to insult Cheryl with that obscenity.

> There are politer ways. Calling names is a no, no.

That is what the OP did, and you appear to be defending it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 07:02PM

So show me where telling someone off is a personal attack? I could tell you to piss off. Is that attacking you personally? No.

Why are we having this conversation? The report button exists for a reason. Did you or Cheryl use it? Maybe not. And jumping in on me like a wannabe moderator could be considered a personal attack. Maybe I should use that button.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 07:04PM

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So show me where telling someone off is a personal
> attack?

Gosh, Elder Berry, writing someone to "F** Off isn't a personal attack?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 07:11PM

mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gosh, Elder Berry, writing someone to "F** Off
> isn't a personal attack?

Nope. Now "F** You" might be.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 07:06PM

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why are we having this conversation? The report
> button exists for a reason. Did you or Cheryl use
> it?

Once again, a review of the Guidelines would benefit you. Because Cheryl answered the criticism, the Moderators did not delete the thread nor post.

Just as, since I chose to answer the original obscenity, and you have chosen to argue with me, your threat to Report will probably not be heeded.

>I should use that button.

Be my guest.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 07:12PM

"Once again, a review of the Guidelines would benefit you."

I have. I disagree with your interpretation of them.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 07:08PM

Maybe it's a guy thing?

Also Cheryl did a very classy thing by recognizing that the potential for offending was present and apologizing.

Have you considered applying for the next opening for Moderator?

And where we're you when the two RfMers were hissing at each other about le avoirdupois?!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 05:53PM

Your son is an adult, or near enough. You need to sit him down and have a talk with him, maybe Q&A. But you can't really stop him unless he chooses. You need to explain things to him.

It's worth finding out about the girl IMHO. She could be a good catch and she's not necessarily TBM.

Just my two cents.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 10:34AM

Right, retention of young people is pretty bad. Maybe her parents are the ones wanting her to date in the church, so she’s stuck in the middle. The problem then is Mormon in laws. If the new couple goes inactive then they’ve lost that part of the family.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 06:49PM

If they think it's destructive, there's nothing wrong with saying so.

If they think it's overly controlling, they should tell that to their kids.

If they don't trust mormonism or its leaders, they can say so.

If they think it undermines families when one of them leaves, it's a good idea to say so.

It's the same as telling kids how the parent views gangs, drugs, reckless driving, or multi level marketing schemes. It isn't being helpful to withhold opinions because children and teens can profit from hearing what their parents think about different subjects. As kids grow and mature and observe, they might adjust their views and change to a new way of thinking.

Sometimes kids don't seem to listen or they huff and puff and refuse to join the conversation. This doesn't mean they don't care about what the parent is saying. It only means that they can't control their attitude.

I still remember and know what my parents thought about most topics. I Heard them, but I didn't always jump in to agree or disagree. That's how kids act. It's normal.

The best school psychologist I know told me not to be so placid. He said kids looked to me to learn about how people should react out in society.

One boy thought it was funny to pee on other kiddies at recess. The psychologist said I should show *outrage* and make the child suffer punishment because his behavior was outrageous and it would harm him and society to be too calm about it.

Holding in our outrage, disgust, concern, or worry about something often means a child has no role model to look at to learn about how they should feel about confusing challenges.

I think it would be fine to tell a child, "I'm upset that you might be considering joining mormonism because from what I've seen it is overly controlling and dishonest. Please watch for these characteristics for yourself. I worry about you and I worry about our family because mormonism tends to undermine esteem and disrupt family relationships. If someone tells you to keep secrets from your family, please be wary. And please remember what this family has said about peer pressure. Depend on yourself because the mormon church exerts force to get young people to be pressured by their peers, saying their is only one right way to think, the mormon way. Don't lose confidence because you think differently than someone else."

Talk like this is a good thing, not bad. These days we call eighteen year olds "adults." Yes, but they are exceedingly *young* adults who won't actually reach maturity for years. Most of us would laugh if we remembered what we thought and what we wanted in life when we were teens. That's because we matured and grew up. Young people need help to do that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 09:21PM

Excellent post, Cheryl. I agree with all you say. Well thought and well said. :)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Gordon B. Stinky ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 11:28PM

We chose to "inoculate" our girls against Mormonism. Tell them about it, what's wrong with it, make fun of it, etc. We point out all the anti-social things our TBM relatives do, explain why it's inappropriate or unacceptable, etc. They get it. Now they point it out.

In the 9th grade one of my girls got a crush on a Mormon boy. I told her, "no Mormons." Period. Later, she went on to college. He went on a mission. By her junior year, he was home, married and had a baby. She's now graduated, and gonna start grad school. He's trying to work his way through BYU with a wife and kid. She didn't "dodge a bullet" because it was never more than silly crush, but she looks at it now aghast at the thought of the life he's living.

My girls are adults now, but when they were children, we basically forbid any social contacts with Mormons.

I would never allow the missionaries in my home to "teach" or anything official. I would make sure my children knew it, and knew why. They know we loathe Mormonism, and why.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 12:22AM

Good points, Gordon. Your daughter dodged more than a bullet. A howitzer maybe? RPG? Good for you, and her!

I’m sure grad school will be rewarding for her. :)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 09:03AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: nolongerangry ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 10:57AM

Sorry to question your parenting skills, but why are you even letting him explore the cult after you know what it has done to you? You are the parent, he is a minor, put a stop to his actions before his life gets out of hand.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 11:10AM

nolongerangry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry to question your parenting skills, but why
> are you even letting him explore the cult after
> you know what it has done to you? You are the
> parent, he is a minor, put a stop to his actions
> before his life gets out of hand.

Excellent points, Nolongerangry. And from your posts that I have read, you are speaking with the voice of hard-won experience!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 11:52AM

Yes, but I doubt it’s that easy. Why not take this as a cautionary tale? There’s no substitute for being close when they’re young, which the church ironically interferes with. Otherwise when you really need to get through to them it will be a lot harder.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 06:58PM

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, but I doubt it’s that easy. Why not take
> this as a cautionary tale?

Yes, you are probably right. The world, and for sure, this Board, is filled with cautionary tales.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 07:02PM

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>There’s no substitute for being close when they’re young, which the church ironically interferes with.

Yes, that was always funny to me, how often the parents left their kids with unknown adults, just because they were other members. These adults were assumed to be okay, just because of being in the cult, but no one ever came in to check on them. Just dropped them off in the parking lot, and picked them up 2 hours later.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 03:22PM

Forbidding him to learn about Mormonism could backfire. But I think your son needs to know all sides of the issue. It's quite clear from the evidence that Mormonism ain't worth one's lifelong devotion.

The socialization is the more difficult part to deal with, because I'm not sure to what extent Mormons will be interested in him as long as they think he is a good prospect for baptism. After he gets dunked, the luster will wear off and he'll just be another white shirt drone. If he loses interest in the church, the LDS friends will either lose interest or show that they are real friends who like him for who he is.

Let's also keep it real. If he get's baptized that's not the end. How many of the people we saw converted on our missions were gone in a few months!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 07:00PM

snowball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many of the people we saw converted on our missions were gone in a few months!

I lasted a little over a year. But all the other converts during the time I was there, were gone after a few Sundays.

Apparently I was a slow learner!

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed. Please start another thread and continue the conversation.