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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 09:18PM

(no link) ~

what if aliens tried to send exmos messages thru space b4 the 1950's when there were very few radios in the exmo community at that time ? ~

certainly those space messages would have been missed and not shared on RfM ~

maybe they gave up sending us exmos messages after not receiving a response for so long a time ~

what should we do now RfM ? ~

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 10:02PM

What are our options?

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 11:38PM

Send our own messages? You first, Ziller!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 28, 2019 11:43PM

This is pure disinformation. Ziller is trying to confuse us so we don't grasp the obvious fact that he is an interplanetary messenger.

Doubt this? I defy anyone to read three of his posts and then argue that he is an earthling.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 12:41AM

I want Ziller to explain the crop circles he left us.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 01:03AM

Don't let him near you with those medical tools. Next thing you know, you'll be on SNL.

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Posted by: anon2828 ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 12:50AM

Ahh, Ziller. Thanks for the light-hearted post. Cheered me up after a day filled with drama.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 12:54AM

Just get ready for your anal probe.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 11:09AM

ziller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (no link) ~

http://www.sitchin.com/

> what should we do now RfM ? ~

Send a message back to Nibiru.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 11:44AM

I think we should send ZILLER back to Nibiru--after he has been sufficiently probed, of course.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 12:31PM

By Nibiru Beauties of course.

In b4 ~ the females of Nibiru take over Earth...

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Posted by: GregS ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 01:51PM

In b4 ~ ziller checks back for pictures of Nibiru females ~ may want to consider selling out Earth

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 03:03PM

Send up smoke signals in formation. It might work ... From a MIT study

"If extraterrestrial intelligence exists somewhere in our galaxy, a new MIT study proposes that laser technology on Earth could, in principle, be fashioned into something of a planetary porch light -- a beacon strong enough to attract attention from as far as 20,000 light years away. From a report:
The research, which author James Clark calls a "feasibility study," appears today in The Astrophysical Journal. The findings suggest that if a high-powered 1- to 2-megawatt laser were focused through a massive 30- to 45-meter telescope and aimed out into space, the combination would produce a beam of infrared radiation strong enough to stand out from the sun's energy. Such a signal could be detectable by alien astronomers performing a cursory survey of our section of the Milky Way -- especially if those astronomers live in nearby systems, such as around Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to Earth, or TRAPPIST-1, a star about 40 light-years away that hosts seven exoplanets, three of which are potentially habitable. If the signal is spotted from either of these nearby systems, the study finds, the same megawatt laser could be used to send a brief message in the form of pulses similar to Morse code."

https://science.slashdot.org/story/18/11/06/1938214/existing-laser-technology-could-be-fashioned-into-earths-porch-light-to-attract-alien-astronomers-study-finds

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 03:14PM

With a minimum of an 80-year gap between sending a message and receiving an answer.

In many sci/fi stories, such an attempt is seen as chickens doing their best to signal foxes where they are.

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 06:48AM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In many sci/fi stories, such an attempt is seen as
> chickens doing their best to signal foxes where
> they are.

And not even an unreasonable premise, ETs could end up destroying our civilization without even intending too. If they are anything like human beings, we should be extremely wary of them. Like us, they will be the products of aggressive biological competition and that imperative will remain.

They could do with teaching us a few useful things like how to shield manned spacecraft in deep space so we can travel between planets and stars, or how to convert hostile planetary environments into ones we can live in. More efficient power generation would be another, although that too could be dangerous

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 05:23AM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slashdot

>>slashdot (sometimes abbreviated as /.) is a social news website that originally billed itself as "News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters". It features news stories on science, technology, and politics that are submitted and evaluated by site users and editors.

Right...

And a horn honk to Elderolddog for that spot-on observation about the 80 year interval between first sending a message and receiving a reply.

Thanks for playing. :-)

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 09:48AM

Intervals between contact of extra-terrestrials to earth would depend more on their technology and understanding of space/time dimensions that wouldn't necessarily depend on our limitations and capacity to make contact if they are far more advanced than we are.

You can't compare their knowledge ie, technology or civilization to ours if they are the ones initiaing contact with us. It is presumptive theirs is vastly superior to our own if indeed they are emitting signals and communications of their own accord.

"This parameter space is vast. The relevant dimensions include the three dimensions of space, the frequency range of potential signals, their repetition rate, polarization, and modulation, the transmission bandwidth, and the sensitivity of searches to this transmitted power.

The volume of three-dimensional space that can be searched is the volume of the universe centered on our solar system out to a specific distance. Wright and co define this as 10 kiloparsecs—about 30,000 light-years, or roughly the distance to the globular clusters that orbit the Milky Way galaxy.

Most radio telescopes are able to observe signals in both polarizations at the same time, but this has not always been true in the past. So this is a dimension that limits the exploration of the parameter space.

Other dimensions are complex to characterize. The signal repetition rate, for example, is tricky to handle in the model. Continuous signals are easy to deal with, but signals that repeat rarely are difficult. One relevant example is the famous Wow! signal recorded in 1977 at Ohio State University’s Big Ear radio telescope. It is so called because researchers annotated the data by writing “Wow!” in the margins.

But despite various attempts, this signal has never been observed again. That may be because it is entirely spurious, but it may be because the repetition rate is so low.

Defining the size of this cosmic haystack is then the task of adding all these spaces together. As Wright and co put it: “The volume of the haystack is then a definite volume integral in this 8D space, and the fraction searched can be calculated given the sensitivity function for a given survey.”

The result is a space of truly gargantuan proportions. “This leads to a total 8D haystack volume of 6.4 × 10116 m5Hz2 s/W,” say Wright and co.

But how much of this have astronomers explored? Wright and co say that the searches to date have covered just 5.8 x 10-18 of this volume.

That’s a tiny fraction. To put this in the context of Tarter et al.’s original comparison, the total volume of Earth’s oceans is 1.335 x 1021 liters. So the total search to date is equivalent to searching 7,700 liters of seawater. Since a cubic meter is 1,000 liters, that’s about the size of a large hot tub.

That’s significantly larger than Tarter et al.’s estimate of a drinking glass, but it is still tiny in the greater scheme of things. “Even our larger estimate underscores how little searching has actually occurred,” say Wright and co.

That’s interesting work because it puts the searches for extraterrestrial intelligence in context. The picture from Wright and co suggests not that SETI has failed, but that it has barely started.

Clearly, there is plenty more searching to be done, even though the task seems more daunting than ever. As Wright and co put it: “One hopes that the Cosmic Haystack is rich with needles.”

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612232/the-8-dimensional-space-that-must-be-searched-for-alien-life/

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 12:36PM

A civilization which contacts us could be at a higher technological level than us in certain respecta but have a higher gravity well and fewer resources meaning that they haven't managed to achieve manned space travel yet. Or they may have a civilization which is stagnating or collapsing like our own.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 12:38PM

Jordan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or they may have
> a civilization which is stagnating or collapsing
> like our own.

I blame climate change.

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 07:34PM

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jordan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Or they may have
> > a civilization which is stagnating or
> collapsing
> > like our own.
>
> I blame climate change.

Pollution is probably one of the main causes of civilized species dying out.

It's also not unlikely by the time some signals reach us, or our signals reach them that one or the other species will have died out.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 31, 2019 12:29PM

>>Pollution is probably one of the main causes of civilized species dying out.

Got any research data to back that bit of speculation?

Seriously, have you been garnering date from civilizations in other solar systems via the antennae on that bit of aluminum headgear it's rumored you favor?

On our own planet we know the Polynesians on Easter Island suffered not from pollution, but rather the consequences of their deforestation practices.

https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2013/12/09/249728994/what-happened-on-easter-island-a-new-even-scarier-scenario

>>These settlers were farmers, practicing slash-and-burn agriculture, so they burned down woods, opened spaces, and began to multiply. Pretty soon the island had too many people, too few trees, and then, in only a few generations, no trees at all.

https://rainforests.mongabay.com/09easter_island.htm

>>Around 1400 the Easter Island palm became extinct due to overharvesting. Its capability to reproduce has become severely limited by the proliferation of rats, introduced by the islanders when they first arrived, which ate its seeds. In the years after the disappearance of the palm, ancient garbage piles reveal that porpoise bones declined sharply. The islanders, no longer with the palm wood needed for canoe building, could no longer make journeys out to sea. Consequently, the consumption of land birds, migratory birds, and mollusks increased. Soon land birds went extinct and migratory bird numbers were severely reduced, thus spelling an end for Easter Island's forests. Already under intense pressure by the human population for firewood and building material, the forests lost their animal pollinators and seed dispersers with the disappearance of the birds. Today, only one of the original 22 species of seabird still nests on Easter Island.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2019 12:42PM by SL Cabbie.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 01:39PM

6.4 × 10¹¹⁶ m⁵Hz² s/W is the correctly formatted formula. When you copy and paste, it comes out as Amyjo displayed it: 6.4 × 10116 m5Hz2 s/W.

If you're as math-deficient as I am, it's kind of hopeless. Looking at the correct presentation in the cited article, one sees the 'raised to the power' numbers, and the realization sinks in that as presented here, the equation is worthless without a key.

I get that the first expression, 6.4 x 10¹¹⁶ gives you a 64 followed by 123 zeros, but I don't get the rest of the equation, as an expression of volume! I would greatly appreciate someone who is a math cognoscenti explaining the formula!

In trying to figure it out, I found that 'm' can stand for slope, or meters, and probably other things in any number of disciplines!

The Hz was easy: Hertz. One Hertz is one cycle per second. HOw that becomes part of a volume equation remains a mystery to me, because how does one square '1'? What's the point? Unless the Hz stands for whatever cycle rate one is using?

And 's/W'... Google did not find a single s/W math reference, so this one is a total mystery.

So where are you, Math Wizard?


I would like to suppose that the majority of us would not throw out to an audience something they didn't understand. I kind of get the impression that the latest post was just a snow job. The first offering was rejected, so something was thrown out to try to calm the restless herd.

But there really isn't a connection between the articles. The first was about establishing communication between two star systems: "Hi!" and "Hi, back at ya!"

The second article is simply an attempt to explain how BIG the searchable sky is. BIG!!! How big?

This big: 6.4 × 10¹¹⁶ m⁵Hz² s/W

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 12:50PM

As well as how to operate a variation on the old "shell game."

I raised the salient point the slash dot org link you provided was "unreliable" (and certainly unconnected to M.I.T. as you asserted), and in a "classic bait-and-switch operation" You offered a substitution. However, quoting from that link:

>>On the one hand, there is a strong sense that the conditions on Earth that led to the emergence of life cannot be unique. This makes it seem likely that life must be common.

>>But on the other, astronomers have scoured the cosmic haystack for the needle that would represent signs of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe and come up with nothing. As a result, many observers have concluded that there are no obvious signs.

Clearly this "study"--which reduces to "speculation" rather than science--focuses on possibilities rather than empirical data.

To present it as otherwise is disingenuous.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: May 29, 2019 10:20PM

we should go stand up in the mountains at a high elevation and look up at the sky. If you wave at one it just might swing on by. I have an uncle who was almost abducted by one. This is the best place to see flying saucers.

(that's where I was when I saw one wiz by :)

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 12:41PM

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we should go stand up in the mountains at a high
> elevation and look up at the sky. If you wave at
> one it just might swing on by. I have an uncle who
> was almost abducted by one.

Don't they make you forget that you have? If you believe the usual stories. Maybe he needs to be regressed.

What does he say happened?

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 12:23AM

The bad news is we are not going there. The good news is that they are not coming here.

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 05:30AM

Considering what contact by technologically advanced humans has done to those who persisted until recently at a Stone Age level, we should be very wary of iniating deliberate contact with intelligent extraterrestrials. They may not even mean to undermine us, but it is likely they would.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 08:51AM

Beware of AMD's...

Aliens of Mass Destruction...

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 07:13PM

Hopefully I'm anonymous enough that I won't get in trouble with the government, but I knew a CTI (Cryptology Technician Interpreter) who told me that the Department of Defense received a radio transmission from outer space in the 1940s. Working with the best linguists they could find, they managed to translate the alien message into English. The message read,

"BE SURE TO DRINK YOUR OVALTINE."

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Posted by: lurking in ( )
Date: May 30, 2019 07:28PM

"A crummy commercial?! Son of a bitch!"

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