Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 01:37PM

Tears formed in my eyes as I read this article.

I hope the journey ahead will be judicially simplified for Victory, and for all other kids in the same situation.

Thank you for posting this.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 01:43PM

Thank you for that, Richard.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 02:27PM

"The faith doesn’t have an official position on intersex people..."

I think their official position is to pretend intersexed people don't exist.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 02:28PM

To them homosexuality doesn't.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 02:35PM

Yes.

The church keeps crashing on the shoals of reality.

1) Race is meaningful and dark-skinned people are morally worse than the white and delightsome. Oops.

2) Homosexuality is a choice and not an identity. Remember Packer, in one of his last speeches, saying "why would a loving God do THAT to his children?" Oops.

3) Intersex people do not exist because "why would a loving God do THAT to his children?" Oops.

The problem is that every delay between the enunciation of an evil doctrine and its (partial) renunciation means families destroyed, lives ruined, and beatings delivered.

When dogma becomes more important than people, evil ensues.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 02:55PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 03:11PM

Suitably Orwellian: Gender is binary, by nature, so anything suggestive of other gender identities is unnatural.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 03:30PM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Suitably Orwellian: Gender is binary, by nature,
> so anything suggestive of other gender identities
> is unnatural.

Where does Orwell talk about this? What's Orwellian about this is that Minitruth says the word "hermaphrodite" is "intersex" in Newspeak. "Hermaphrodite" doubleplus ungood, even though it is rarely if ever offensive. But intersex helps reduce vocabulary, much like "the spend" replaces "expenditure".

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 04:28PM

> Where does Orwell talk about this?

Orwellian: "of, relating to, or suggestive of George Orwell or his writings." Hence not necessarily something Orwell said.

But Orwellian in this case because the churches are aware of the complex reality and yet choose to redefine "nature" in a factually inaccurate way that fits their ideologies. THAT is Orwellian. You know, sort of like arguing "race" is biologically meaningful or condemning people you dislike as "cultural Marxists." Those are Orwellian linguistic tricks used to project one's own favored gloss onto radically different facts.


----------------
> What's
> Orwellian about this is that Minitruth says the
> word "hermaphrodite" is "intersex" in Newspeak.
> "Hermaphrodite" doubleplus ungood, even though it
> is rarely if ever offensive.

I see you went back to the glossary at the end of the book, which has principles you feel you can apply. Orwell merits close reading of the text, though, since his message is not a narrow list of terms but a worldview that leads to far wider insights.

But putting that aside, you are substantially wrong regarding the terminology. If the words "hermaphrodite" and "intersex" describe actual phenomena, they represent greater fidelity to the facts and hence are the opposite of Orwellian. Orwell wanted precision in tongue and pen, and biology is providing that in the form of these new terms.


--------------
> But intersex helps
> reduce vocabulary, much like "the spend" replaces
> "expenditure".

Yeah, economy is irrelevant. It doesn't drive the search for better descriptors.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 11:47PM

Don't interrupt when the grownups are talking.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 11:46AM

Dogma is, in fact, more important than people in the church, isn't it? That's important to remember.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 11:50AM

Concepts over congregants for prefects.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 02:49PM

That’s heartbreaking. Why can’t people just be allowed to be who they are?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 02:54PM

Mormonism doesn't even allow this with non-intersexed people.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 03:48PM

I wonder why there's a genetic proclivity to have two out of three children with the same genetic lineup, given how unusual it is to be born intersex?

I hope the intersex child who seems to be more overtly feminine at this time gets the support she needs from her community as much as her family is encouraging her.

Utah still has a long way to go to come out of the Dark Ages.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: summer ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 04:47PM

Good for the dad. I'm at a loss as to why doctors needed to designate a gender on the birth certificate instead of "intersex," which would have been more accurate. Or why judges think it's any of their business now what gender the family wants to designate.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 11:51AM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or why judges think it's
> any of their business now what gender the family
> wants to designate.

Boxes are more important than faces, tears, feelings, and lives. Boxes keep everything nice and neat and tidy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:12PM

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Boxes keep everything nice
> and neat and tidy.


That's one of the promises of Mormonism. Just follow the prophet and the confusion and messiness of life will go away.

But it's a hollow promise. The supposedly inspired leaders can't even clear up something as simple as the Word of Wisdom. So intersexed people? They haven't a clue.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:18PM

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So intersexed people? They
> haven't a clue.

Right and on another front they don't consider an infant in a womb a person until it takes a breath. They don't record it at all. This should give any "prolife" Mormons pause. It doesn't.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: redskittle ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:20PM

The moment a pro-life Mormon realizes their child isn’t a member until they are at least 8.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:29PM

I was so mixed up for so long, not knowing what to think or believe about my gay "husband." I was typing one day for a large hospital in SLC and they had a patient come in from a car accident and they were not able to catheterize her. They did a CT scan to find out why. She was intersexed. I was more amazed than shocked. Boy that helped gay make more sense to me. Up to that point I had never heard of an intersex person.

I felt when I found out my boyfriend/husband is gay that he couldn't change. I thought it was pretty simple. The lds leaders really did a number on that thought.

In reality, it makes a lot more sense to have this kind of diversity than it does to not have this diversity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2019 12:30PM by cl2.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: redskittle ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:16PM

Diversity is amazing! For those who haven’t experienced diversity, you really should experience it!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 02:13PM

How many years ago would this story, & others like it, Never have been publicized ?


Welcome! to the Age of Information, Morbots, Sheeple, GAys…


"There are three things that can't be hidden: the Sun, the Moon, and the Truth"

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: HWint ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 03:58PM

RPackham Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AP news story:
>
> https://apnews.com/1f5f240794e1473d80be00465b4b519
> b


>Five states have considered banning [intersex] surgery until they’re old enough to consent,

still no consent for male circumcision, however.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 06:18PM

https://www.auanet.org/guidelines/circumcision

The American Urological Association, Inc.® (AUA) believes that neonatal circumcision has potential medical benefits and advantages as well as disadvantages and risks. Neonatal circumcision is generally a safe procedure when performed by an experienced operator. There are immediate risks to circumcision such as bleeding, infection and penile injury, as well as complications recognized later that may include buried penis, meatal stenosis, skin bridges, chordee and poor cosmetic appearance. Some of these complications may require surgical correction. Nevertheless, when performed on healthy newborn infants as an elective procedure, the incidence of serious complications is extremely low. The minor complications are reported to be three percent.

Properly performed neonatal circumcision prevents phimosis, paraphimosis and balanoposthitis, and is associated with a markedly decreased incidence of cancer of the penis among U.S. males. In addition, there is a connection between the foreskin and urinary tract infections in the neonate. For the first three to six months of life, the incidence of urinary tract infections is at least ten times higher in uncircumcised than circumcised boys. Evidence associating neonatal circumcision with reduced incidence of sexually transmitted diseases is conflicting depending on the disease. While there is no effect on the rates of syphilis or gonorrhea, studies performed in African nations provide convincing evidence that circumcision reduces, by 50-60 percent, the risk of transmitting the Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) to HIV negative men through sexual contact with HIV positive females. There are also reports that circumcision may reduce the risk of Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) infection. While the results of studies in other cultures may not necessarily be extrapolated to men in the United States at risk for HIV infection, the AUA recommends that circumcision should be presented as an option for health benefits. Circumcision should not be offered as the only strategy for HIV and/or HPV risk reduction. Other methods of HIV and/or HPV risk reduction, including safe sexual practices, should be emphasized. Circumcision may be required in a small number of uncircumcised boys when phimosis, paraphimosis or recurrent balanoposthitis occur and may be requested for ethnic and cultural reasons after the newborn period. Circumcision in these children usually requires general anesthesia.

The risks and disadvantages of circumcision are encountered early whereas the advantages and benefits are prospective. When circumcision is being discussed with parents and informed consent obtained, medical benefits and risks, and ethnic, cultural, religious and individual preferences should be considered.

Board of Directors, May 1989
Board of Directors, October 1996 (Revised)
Board of Directors, February 1998 (Revised)
Board of Directors, February 2003 (Revised)
Board of Directors, May 2007 (Revised)
Board of Directors, May 2012 (Reaffirmed)
Board of Directors, May 2017 (Revised)
Board of Directors, October 2018 (Reaffirmed)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: June 13, 2019 12:49AM

If I had an intersex child, I would start them in formal Martial Arts training almost as soon as they could walk. Make it a fun sport and teach them some wisdom that should come with their having power over others. By the time the kid is ten, maybe they could take-down an average adult and by the time the kid reaches adulthood, could defend themselves against anyone who outweighs them or perhaps more than one attacker at a time. That's how to protect them from violent assaults which they are likely to become subject to sooner or later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2019 12:53AM by azsteve.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 ********        **  ********  **     **  ******** 
    **           **     **     **     **  **       
    **           **     **     **     **  **       
    **           **     **     *********  ******   
    **     **    **     **     **     **  **       
    **     **    **     **     **     **  **       
    **      ******      **     **     **  ********