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Posted by: lurking in ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 04:21PM

"Supreme Court Rejects Atheists’ Case to Remove 'In God We Trust' from Money

"Earlier today, the Supreme Court rejected an appeal from a group of atheists trying to get 'In God We Trust' off our money. (It’s case 18-1297 in case you’re curious.) This was the most recent case brought forth by atheist activist Michael Newdow, most famous for his unsuccessful battle over 'Under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance.

"Last August, the Eighth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled unanimously (3-0) against more than two dozen atheists, their children, and two groups named in the lawsuit. They said the phrase didn’t violate the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause and Free Exercise Clause, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), or the Equal Protection component of the Fifth Amendment.

"The judges said that the motto was part of an established tradition in the U.S. going back to our founding and that the phrase wasn’t unfairly coercive. (One judge didn’t concur on some of the analysis, but the end result was the same.)"

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2019/06/10/supreme-court-rejects-atheists-case-to-remove-in-god-we-trust-from-money/


(Just for fun, does anyone with an opinion on this subject wish to argue the case for the *other* side?)

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 05:06PM

Money, to me, should be something we trust and respect. Would everyone take our money seriously if it had "In Porky Pig We Trust" on it? I consider God equivalent to a cartoon character which cheapens the money we work for. It belittles the confidence in the transactions it represents for me. I am in the minority and recognize most people would feel the opposite.

Many people somehow think referencing God makes people be moral. This is disturbing for different reasons. For others, traditions matter, no matter how stupid the traditions might be. But this is only from 1956 so I have a hard time with the argument that it is tradition. If people want tradition, lets go back to the old motto E pluribus Unum. I guess the SUPREMES get to pick which traditions to follow.

I am a small minority, probably even among other atheists. I don't see this is worth pushing with all the other more serious religious intrusions into public life. It is upsetting that people have to shove God into everything, assuming it should be their version of God. (If money said Allah or Zeus, you can bet they would vote to get it off pronto).

I don't think it is worth it for atheists to waste time and money on this, knowing the composition of the SUPREMES. I also think that this issue is an easy bone to throw to believers who feel threatened all the time. I'm not sure it is worth the tax payer money to fix at the current time. I'd rather see diversity, like Tubman, on bills but look how people resist even that. It's expensive.

If this makes religious people feel happy and secure, it seems harmless enough. Most transactions are electronic nowadays so I guess I don't need to trust God for those.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 05:16PM

change it to, "In God Some Trust".

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Posted by: sonofthelefthand ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 05:19PM

I think you may be on to something!

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 11:59PM

change it to, "In Which God Do Some Trust".

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 11:15AM

"Do We Trust God?"

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Posted by: ziller ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 09:22PM

LOL @ the poor misguided atheist ~


brb ~ wasting time and treasure on hate ~



just LOL ~


sad really ~


in b 4 ~ psalm 14 ~


in b 4 ~ psalm 19 ~

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Posted by: anybody ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 09:25PM


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Posted by: elfling_not_logged_in ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 10:24PM

It is from the founding of the US, but the "under god" in the pledge of alliegence isn't. (if you want proof - watch the first 10 min. of the v. catholic xmas movie the Bells of St. Marys - starring Bing Crosby and Ingred Bergman) - it's shortly after WWII and it starts with the kids saying the Pledge of alliegence in the school yard - and they DON"T say "under god"

BUT,
"In God is our trust" is from the most offensive verse of the Star Spangled banner.
Oh thus be it ever, when free men shall stand
between their loved homes and the war's desolation
blest with victory and peace, may this heaven rescued land
praise the power that hath made and preserved us a nation.

Here's the really bad part...

Then conquer we must
when our cause it is just
and this be our motto
in god is our trust

and the star spangled banner in triumph shall wave, o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 10:43PM

You need to embrace your Manifest Destiny! . . . /s

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 10:49PM

Hey, there's at least one person on this website who believes it was good that the Europeans "civilized" the Lamanite lands.

I mean, where would the Native Americans be without European enlightenment?

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 10:50PM

Thanks for that clarification about motto.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 10:54PM

I would say that Eisenhower was right in putting this on the current money for the basic reason that it is tradition and was started in a dark time when this nations future looked grim. The history goes way back, remember that they first were inscribing this in the 1860's. It wasn't clear that union was going to win the Civil War. 600,000 men died in that war and the Secretary of the Treasury started inscribing this for the purpose of calling down help from god.

We know what happened next. Gettysburg in the North, and Sherman was able to marched all the way into Georgia and to Savannah. The Slaves were freed and America survived. This is why we remember the phrase "in God we trust." It also differentiates us from what other nations in Europe have believed and are encumbered by, which is "in the government we trust" or "in Karl Marx we trust", or "in the Pope we trust."

Questions like this are what needs to be taught in public schools. Students need to know the reason why America is exceptional, why we are the world leaders of freedom. But sadly this kind of crucial information is not in the Common Core. Instead they get to spend their time learning about the quadratic equation, evolution, the big bang, or whatever...

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 10, 2019 11:32PM

> It also
> differentiates us from what other nations in
> Europe have believed and are encumbered by, which
> is "in the government we trust" or "in Karl Marx
> we trust", or "in the Pope we trust."

Provide a single example of a country in Europe with any of those mottos in any public space or on any currency.


--------------------
> Questions like this are what needs to be taught in
> public schools. Students need to know the reason
> why America is exceptional, why we are the world
> leaders of freedom.

Again, pablum. What source do you have for that assertion? Freedom House, which leans left, puts the United States at about 21. The Heritage Foundation, on the center right, puts the US at 12. The Cato Institute, which is far right, puts it at 20. All three sources put the same countries--mainly European but also including Australia, Canada and New Zealand--above the United States for freedom. So experts across the political spectrum unanimously feel that the countries you just denigrated are substantially freer than the United States

So what is it that all these entities, right and left, are missing? What are your data and what is your methodology?


-----------------
> But sadly this kind of crucial
> information is not in the Common Core. Instead
> they get to spend their time learning about the
> quadratic equation, evolution, the big bang, or
> whatever...

You seriously don't understand that math and science are the key to economic, military, and geopolitical might?

That's unfortunate.






https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world-2018-table-country-scores

https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/human-freedom-index-2015.pdf



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/10/2019 11:46PM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:02AM

"for the basic reason that it is tradition" ... Slavery is a tradition. Should we re-institute it ?

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 11:14AM

Don't go giving them any ideas...

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Posted by: hgc2 ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 12:54AM

I remember learning the "Pledge of Allegiance" in the 1950s. It did not have the phrase "under God" when I learned it. I don't recall the year, but I remember it did change sometime in the 1950s.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 11:09AM

The supremes are using the "they've been getting away with it so long that it is no longer a crime" argument.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 11:29AM

Even before I retired from government service, I quit saying the pledge of allegiance. Anytime there was a function in the conference Hall, some military quartet would sing the national anthem, and people would do the pledge of allegiance. But when I quit doing the god thing, I also quit worshipping the flag. I hate jingoism, and that means also not believing in another god, the flag. It's an embarrassment.

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Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:15PM

It always seemed strange to me that we pledge allegiance to a flag. I think you could make an argument for pledging allegiance to the nation (if you get rid of the “under god” part), but pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth?

So often, people value a symbol more than whatever the symbol represents.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:16PM

+1

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Posted by: redskittle ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:17PM

+2

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Posted by: redskittle ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 01:02PM

“In God We Trust”

Sounds like a Christian theocracy to me.

Oh wait, that’s the United States.

So does the United States secretly want to be a Christian theocracy? If they are planning to be a Christian theocracy, I will literally apply for a Canadian citizenship and hopefully move there.

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Posted by: Happy_Heretic ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 02:16PM

"In God we Trust". Say it aloud. Succinct, clear, melodic. A truly poetic phrase.

I doubt it would sound better if it were true.

HH =)

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Posted by: HWint ( )
Date: June 11, 2019 04:09PM

lurking in Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> (Just for fun, does anyone with an opinion on this
> subject wish to argue the case for the *other*
> side?)

Aronow v. United States (1970); citing McGowan v. Maryland (1961)

see also:

Lynch v. Donnelly (1984)

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