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Posted by: Here again ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 02:08AM

Whenever I’m lonely, I look at the ex-Mormon boards. They’re the closest thing I have to a familiar culture. And yet, at the same time, I know that I won’t really find what I need.

This board seems really good. Down-to-earth. Not so many insults or high-fives.

I wish we had all gotten what we needed from the culture we grew up in.

It really sucked to be born as a female in Mormonism in the 70s. I mean really really sucked. But I suppose I could have been born an evangelical Christian in the South. Or maybe a Muslim woman. Horrible.

I really wish ex-Mormons were kinder to each other in general.

I wish Mormons were kinder to each other. What an awful culture. The culture that professes kindness and love while spewing so much hate.

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Posted by: Here Again ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 02:18AM

Mormons are some of the most hateful people. I dislike the way they treat me with so much hatred and disdain while they talk about their superiority and treat me as if I’m the one who is lost.

I know there are people like that everywhere, but Mormonism really accentuates it. It gives good people an excuse to act like asses.

Maybe a better way to put it is that I’m sick of bad people using Mormonism. And I’m sick of good people getting lost in Mormonism or getting taken advantage of by Mormonism.

I’m sick of Mormonism turning people who would otherwise be good into creeps.

And I’m wishing there were a ward family full of good people who understood my background rather than ward families full of people who would rather insult me than look at themselves.

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Posted by: Here Again ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 02:20AM

And ex-Mormon communities...... Almost worse.

It’s really sad what’s happened to all of us.

I wish I could get completely over it.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: June 19, 2019 11:50PM

Here Again Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormons are some of the most hateful people.

uhhhhhhh (Yes, they are !!!)



> I
> dislike the way they treat me with so much hatred
> and disdain while they talk about their
> superiority and treat me as if I’m the one who
> is lost.

You are lost, to them!



> I know there are people like that everywhere, but
> Mormonism really accentuates it. It gives good
> people an excuse to act like asses.
>
> Maybe a better way to put it is that I’m sick of
> bad people using Mormonism. And I’m sick of good
> people getting lost in Mormonism or getting taken
> advantage of by Mormonism.
>
> I’m sick of Mormonism turning people who would
> otherwise be good into creeps.

"good people tend to do good things,bad people tend to do bad things. it takes religion to make good people do bad things." MORmONISM is especially suck -cess ful at that !!!


> And I’m wishing there were a ward family full of
> good people who understood my background rather
> than ward families full of people who would rather
> insult me than look at themselves.

the intended appeal of MORmONISM is that it has a ready made support group, that claims to welcome people!!! but at what REAL cost ???? and what does the MORmON support group really support ??? (-MORmONISM !!!!)


.....it's apparent that you need some help. I hope you find it.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 03:14AM

that even within the LSD church there is a significant amount of variability from place to place.

I grew up on the east coast (U.S.) and I don't have any particular complaints about the vast majority of the people in the ward I grew up in. Most of them were really decent people. There were occasionally some snobby people who moved in (usually transplants from Utah who were passing through for 2 or 3-year job assignments). I think something about being in a tiny religious minority out there far from "Zion" helped keep most of the Mormons in our ward humble and realistic, as well as appreciative toward each other.

If my experience in my home ward (for most of my formative years) was all I had to go on, I wouldn't be able to understand or relate to a lot of Utah/Mormon corridor exmos' complaints about growing up among Mormons.

But I later went to YBU and spent some time afterwards in the Mormon corridor and it was quite different from my home ward experiences. The vanity, the social stratification, the narrow-mindedness and lack of big-picture perspectives" and the "Mormon Royalty" and cronyism phenomena were all on display. I even remember applying for a job while at YBU for which I was very well qualified. I had even taken a qualifying test and the person administering the test gave me his best recommendation, saying that I had obtained the highest score he had ever given in his several years of testing. I thought it was in the bag when I went into the final interview. But then the guy who had the final decision actually laughed as he explained to me that the position was not really available. He had already promised it to a friend (who had a prominent Mormon Royalty name) who would be returning from his mission soon. He continued to chuckle as he told me that they publicly announced the opening and application process just because of a policy, but the position was always going to go to his friend, the Mormon princeling. He smiled as he held the door open for me to leave, vaguely mumbling a half apology about being sorry that I had wasted so much time applying. I guess stuff like that happens all over. But personally, my only direct experience with such blatant cronyism occurred at a Mormon institution in the heart of Mormondumb at the hands of a "temple-worthy" dweeb who was easily just as corrupt as a Chicago politician.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 07:13AM

Very true. The "social stratification" of Mormon Utah is what bothers me too. Most of the people are decent and nice, of course, but we live in a class society. I see this everyday. I go to work everyday in an entry level job with the working class of Utah. And they clearly have lots of problems and issues and things that are tough to deal with. Opportunity was never as clearly within their grasp. And the rewards of long term wise decisions are were not as strong a motivating presence as it would have been for the upper class kids.

We are kept out of sight and out of mind of the Utah middle and upper classes. From what I see the upper class people associate only with their kind. They all have to be married with kids. They all seem to have a profession. They all go to the temple together to worship dead people. And they never do manual labor but hire out for it.

The two classes very rarely meet on anything. They don't even seem to be aware that the other side even exists. It's like an upstairs downstairs mentality. And the poor don't even know or think about what the other side is like.

Mormonism exasperates the problems. I wish it could build bridges though, somehow address the needs of people who don't quite fit.

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Posted by: HWint ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 12:30PM

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> that even within the LSD church there is a
> significant amount of variability from place to
> place.


a lot of the things ex-mos complain about are more cultural or family-related, rather than intrinsic to the LDS faith.

I've seen people leave the LDS church, then get mired in a new type of groupthink or backstabbing gossipy subculture that's little different from LDSinc.

people are just people, good and bad.

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Posted by: sb ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 01:11PM

Totally agree. My brother is a doctor and an atheist.

He was a former know-it-all pompous Mormon who looked down at everyone.

Now he is an atheist doing the same thing...with the additional back-patting from having figured it out.


I tell him he may have changed choirs but he is still singing the same song.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 12:41PM

after she and her husband taught school in New Mexico for 5 years. She wanted to be closer to family, but NOT UTAH. On the way back from picking up the last of their belongings, she and I stopped at a craft fair in one of the towns around Provo. She asked if I had noticed that all the women dressed the same, had their hair just so, had tans, etc., that they looked like stepford wives.

She lives near Twin Falls. All her friends are not mormon. Most of her beliefs are not the same as mormons. She never fits in in any ward she is in. Her husband likes her to go, so she goes. She didn't for quite a while. All her kids are OUT. Mormons treated her kids HORRIBLY when they moved to Jerome, Idaho.

I think Idaho, even the TWin Falls area, isn't far enough away. I "guess" BYU employees can say something like he did and not get sued?? How can he get away with that?

Mormons actually do treat me better now that I've rejected the religion than they did while I was one of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2019 12:42PM by cl2.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 12:45PM

I went to church to worship. I didn't like the social aspects. What I love is when the neighbor invites me to R.S. dinners, etc., and I'm like, "I hated them as a mormon, why would I go now?" (And I know what she is doing.)

Unlike others, I was THRILLED when I figured out mormonism was bull. It happened in a matter of moments.

I'm an introvert, antisocial. I have more than enough people to do things with. I don't have enough time to myself.

I think most people have these types of cliques and people are mean to each other. I worked at Sam's Club with a lot of people who were not mormon and a few who were. Talk about mean. The older people were the ones you'd expect to be MATURE. Nope. The manager of the store was the worst of all. She set a poor example for everyone. She wouldn't even look at you, talked about you when you were standing there--as if you weren't there. She was not a mormon.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 07:38PM

cl2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I "guess" BYU employees can say
> something like he did and not get sued?? How can
> he get away with that?
>
I was still struggling to be a TBM at the time and in that mindset didn't think to push back hard against the "authority" figure. I probably could have made a stink about it and probably would have had good grounds for a lawsuit...in theory at least. As a practical matter, however, I was an out-of-stater and out of my element there. I had just seen a person in a position of responsibility and authority essentially inform me that the place was run by and for people in a certain club...and I was not in the club.

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: June 19, 2019 11:54AM

I had a definite case of sexual harassment at Thiokol and I didn't do anything about it. I needed a job and I certainly didn't have the money to sue.

Eventually, the man was fired--8 years after I left to have twins. They brought in hidden cameras to watch him. One of my previous coworkers called me as they were walking him out the door.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 07:02AM

Like Wally, I grew up outside the Moridor, in California, in the same ward, until I left home to go to BYU. I found the Mormons to be very nice people--outstanding, really. They were active in the community Kiwanis Club, Assistance League, Hospital Auxiliaries, The PTA. The mayor of our little town was a Mormon. Mormons there had a reputation of being wealthy, yet our ward included a poverty area of town, which kept the RS women busy. The RS did REAL service to those in need! We were close, like a family, and there were a lot of marriages within the ward. I still have lifetime friends from that ward--they are Mormons who have not shunned me. Many left the cult, as young married couples, and have taken their children out with them.

Besides the different locations, I think the times are different, now. The Mormon church in California, and even in Utah, with my GA relative and my cousins' wards, the church was much more liberal--so much so, that I hardly recognize it as the same organization at all. It used to be more positive, and much more fun for the youth. The fanatical cooks took over, with ideas that we thought were weird and reactionary, in those days. Now, those ideas are mainstream.

Still, Mormonism was pretty horrible, in the old days. The Blacks were denied the priesthood, and were accused of being "descendants of Cain" and "lesser spirits" in the spirit world, who sat on the fence during the War In Heaven, and who didn't follow Christ, like the "white and delightsome" people. Yes, we were taught that! There wasn't the hatred of gays, but no one ever talked about them. Later, I found out that they were being tortured with shock treatments at BYU, when I was there, but it was kept secret. Hatred was at the core of some of our Sunday school lessons. For example the Mormons hated "the great and abominable" Catholic church. People were accused of being Communists. Women had even less respect than now, and mothers who worked were looked down on. Divorced people were wicked, and my mother would get upset when the ward divorcee would talk to my handsome father. I was too young to see all the lies. They used to take away 10% of my hard-earned babysitting money, and 10% of any money I got for my birthday, when I was barely old enough for Primary. My Mormon parents spanked me for every little spilling accident, every little bout of forgetfulness, every little mistake that children normally make. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" was the Mormon motto. I had no self-esteem; I was a nothing. Nothing what I did mattered, unless I did it to obey my parents and the cult.

The Mormon cult has always been horrible, since the days of polygamy, MMM, and the handcart deaths. I figure it will take me another lifetime to recover from it.

We can help each other improve, however! Thanks to RFM and my loved ones, and thanks to learning the Truth--I can cope better with what happened to me. I saved my children! That helped.

I think it helps us to think we're helping others--perhaps even planting seeds of hope and truth, that will help Mormon victims realize that they are being lied to, used, and scammed out of their money. We try to do that, not just idly gripe and criticize. There are some scholarly posters, who answer posters' questions about Mormon doctrines and Mormon history. RFM keeps us abreast of all the many changes in the doctrines and history. It's also good to laugh, when we can! Some of the stories here and hilarious. Some are upsetting. Some make us cry. Sometimes, someone will tell my exact story! That makes me feel I'm not alone in this journey. Many of us are here to save our dear ones who are still trapped in the cult. Some are here just to deal with it, and vent. That's OK, too.

No, I think most ex-Mormons work hard to not hate, anymore. It was such a relief to me, to let go of the racism I had been taught. We are so much happier, free of all that bad advice, those bad examples, all the lies and deceit. I think we are well aware of what we once were, or what the Mormons were grooming us to be. For example, most of us consciously try to not hate others--no not hate the Mormons who once abused us, and the Mormons who are harassing and shunning us now.

Here Again is right. Mormonism is "The culture that professes kindness and love while spewing so much hate."

I honestly don't think that RFM and the ex-Mormons do that at all.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 10:43AM

Hey there Here Again,

I hear your loneliness. I share it.

I look back at times when I felt completely integrated into a group. It was always with Mormons--certain times and congregations.

I've been out 14 years and I've accepted that I'm unlikely to be a part of another tightly knit community.

On-line communities certainly don't fill that void--even exMormon ones.

It is painful to see exMormons on RFM being unkind to each other.

Sometimes, though, I think-- what a gift to be exposed to people I disagree with.

That wasn't allowed much at all at church. There was one correct way to think. The thinking had been done.

Some posters I just don't click into their threads or I skim their comments.

Other times, I want to make sure I'm open to new ideas and information so I wade on in. I'm not as fragile as I think I am.

I hope you find what you're looking for or find peace in grieving what is lost.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 11:54AM

“I really wish ex-Mormons were kinder to each other in general.

I wish Mormons were kinder to each other. What an awful culture. The culture that professes kindness and love while spewing so much hate.”

That’s kind of a broad brush. There’s a big generational gap to consider too. I grew up the middle of a bunch of racist white crackers in the 1970s. Non-whites were extremely rare. I can just imagine earlier times. Black people didn’t live there because they didn’t dare. As they say, that was then. At least the bigots have the courtesy of dying off.

I still resent being turned into an asshole by the Mormon religion, but I think I’ve got my bad programming under control. The Mormon scripts still cause unkindness among exmos, but that’s to be expected. You can only meet people where they’re at.

Your thoughts are like a garden that you cultivate. That the old scripts make it harder isn’t such a bad thing. It only forces you to think about what you’re doing. The end result is a better garden.

Which comes in handy if you’re so lonely it hurts. You only have one soul mate, and it is you. Try to enjoy your time in the garden while you have it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2019 12:01PM by babyloncansuckit.

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Posted by: smirkorama ( )
Date: June 19, 2019 11:57PM

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Which comes in handy if you’re so lonely it
> hurts.


> You only have one soul mate, and it is you.

no truer words, and the rest was pretty good too.

> Try to enjoy your time in the garden while you
> have it.

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Posted by: Greyfort ( )
Date: June 12, 2019 02:23PM

I guess that’s why I’m still here after so many years. I no longer even feel like an ex-Mormon. I just feel like a non-religious person.

But we get each other here. We have a past in common, no matter if our fellow chatters are past or current members, or just people who have been affected in some way by Mormonism.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: June 14, 2019 02:20AM

Thanks for your insights and inspirations.

Sometimes I too long for a perfect world, but it/ I usually fall(s) short.

This is/ we are all we have to work with.

It's like a playground for formons (former mormons). A classroom for students of LDS TRUTH. A study, library, encyclopedia or therapist for those thorny questions, weird thoughts, and striking pains of Mormonism's PAST, PRESENT or FUTURE tense.

It's a place we can be fair
Even if we're not at the fair
That's not fair. Somewhere.

We're all here having a ball because we're not all there taking a fall for what began - and will surely end - as a joke, by a bloke, only wanting to poke fun at the neighbors he was or wasn't in bed with... and to FOOL them and [p](re)school them and bull them... and pull them into his circle of fictitious preachers, indentured servants, and tithing fools.

But we (can) grow, beyond the mundane...
And we like sharing, hecause it's caring-

We also like to have fun
It's a big part of the design

It's in the make up.
And I don't wear any.
I don't-

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Posted by: Josephina ( )
Date: June 18, 2019 09:44PM

Ex-Mormon boards used to be a big help, but now they seem to be full of immature people who want to post silly memes, make smart-aleck types of remarks, and go on photo parades. Ex-Mormon pride? I can't get the kinds of support that I used to rely on. I don't need the help as much now, but from time to time I still do. I'm hoping that in a couple of years, I won't need help at all. Look how many of the old ex-Mormons have disappeared. They have moved on, and I hope that I will too.

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Posted by: Ted ( )
Date: June 19, 2019 09:36AM

Totally agree with everything you say OP, esp. "Mormons are some of the most hateful people. I dislike the way they treat me with so much hatred and disdain while they talk about their superiority and treat me as if I’m the one who is lost."

Mormonism is a freak show. What other religion teaches it's people that they will become literal God's in the hereafter. This explains their superiority complex.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: June 19, 2019 10:55AM

I think what happens is not so much that the boards change (thought there is some ebb and flow of posters there, and prominent issues change some over time), but that we change.

Some new posters come with serious fire in the belly. They have things they MUST say about Mormons and Mormonism, and by God, they're going to do it with full orchestration, Eventually, they get it out of their system and others on the board can see the fire in the belly diminish. Many (most?) of us are not the same person we were when we first showed up here. The sense of urgency subsides.

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Posted by: Pantylover ( )
Date: June 20, 2019 04:36AM

I agree that the board posters seem much more frivolous and immature. I started here on RFM five years ago. It helped me leave and has helped me stay away whenever my old programming makes me hyperventilate and freak out thinking I’m going to hell. I was in the church for 40 years, it was my life. Others here who were lifelong Mollys and Peters get me and it helps.

Personally, I’d rather not hear from those who were barely in it or from those who just want to protest something, anything and usually are very vulgar and immature about it. That’s one reason I’m glad RFM doesn’t post pictures.

Still, I can’t judge how much Mormonism affected others so I suppose all opinions matter but I generally don’t read or take stock in anything written by someone who wasn’t raised Mormon. They just don’t get it.

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