like curling or ribbon dancing or synchronized swimming ? ~


like something poverty kids do because they cant afford the equipment to play real sports ? ~



like a sport for twinks who don’t have the stones to play rugby ? ~


in b 4 ~ asking for a friend ~


plz respon RfM ~

"Soccer star David Beckham was born on May 2, 1975, in London, England. A phenom almost from the moment he could first kick a soccer ball, Beckham began playing for Manchester United, England's legendary soccer team, at age 18, and was a starter by age 20. In 2007, he signed a five-year, $250 million contract with the L.A. Galaxy."

https://www.biography.com/athlete/david-beckham

$250M. Not too shabby.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2019 11:29PM by Nightingale.

https://www.canadasoccer.com/women-s-national-team-p144312

"Canada are two-time Olympic bronze medal winners (2012 and 2016) and two-time Concacaf champions (1998 and 2010). In all, Canada have participated in seven consecutive editions of the

"FIFA Women’s World Cup (1995 to 2019) and three consecutive editions of the Women’s Olympic Football Tournament (2008 to 2016). At Rio 2016, Canada Soccer’s Women’s National Team were the first Canadian Olympic team to win back-to-back medals at a summer Olympic Games in more than a century.

"Canada Soccer’s Women’s National Youth Teams, meanwhile, have won four Concacaf titles: the 2004 and 2008 Concacaf Women’s Under-20 Championship, the 2010 Concacaf Women’s Under-17 Championship, and the 2014 Concacaf Girls’ Under-15 Championship. Canada have qualified for seven editions of the FIFA U-20 Women’s World Cup (including a silver medal at Canada 2002) and all six editions of the FIFA U-17 Women’s World Cup (including a fourth-place finish at Uruguay 2018)."


These women can play! Of course, they don't reach *quite* the same pay scale as the men playing for private teams.

Not only is it not exclusively a girl sport it is one of the few sports when girl-identified and boy-identified players can play on a level playing field. Mixed teams are very common in soccer!

Women play rugby and ice hockey. Are those women's games, too? How about women's boxing?

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Women play rugby and ice hockey. Are those
> women's games, too? How about women's boxing?

There should be NO segregation in sports! End sexism ... women can kick men's butts any time

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_It_Like_Beckham

This movie is great at showing that women, despite their background, can play soccer.

However, most of the soccer money is given to male players.

redskittle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_It_Like_Beckh
> am
>
> This movie is great at showing that women, despite
> their background, can play soccer.
>
> However, most of the soccer money is given to male
> players.

No doubt women can play soccer (the Womens' World Cup is going on right now)

Pay disparity and other issues are the result of the "ghettoization" of womens' soccer and womens' sport in general, an atavistic segregation that only serves to reinforce patriarchal, not to mention cisgendered and heterocentric, patterns of oppression against womxn and female-identifying persons.

We can do better.

redskittle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bend_It_Like_Beckh
> am
>
> This movie is great at showing that women, despite
> their background, can play soccer.

The original intention of the film was to have the two women as lesbian lovers. But they decided against it, as they thought Sikh people would not watch it and the message would be lost.

> However, most of the soccer money is given to male
> players.

That's partly because by far the most soccer fans go to watch the men's game. Men make the money in soccer.

Women's soccer is supposedly the fastest growing sport in the world, but the revenues just aren't there from spectators.

Female soccer players may be underpaid, but it is also clear the male ones are overpaid, often by a factor of ten or more.

As for Beckham, the man's just a fashion model and has been for years. He is more often to be seen sporting underwear on a billboard or advertizing cell phones than actually kicking a ball. This was even the case before he retired from professional sport.

That's why he was a repeat champion on the great Manchester U nited team and on the Manchester United European Championship side, was sought after by most of the top teams in Europe before signing for a then world record transfer fee by Real Madrid.
Probably the best dead ball player ever and paid a huge sum by the LA Galaxy in an effort to boost the average MLS at the tail end of his career. I suggest a You Tube view of some of his amazing highlights. He would not have become a fashion icon without his footballing ability.

I never said Beckham was a bad player. He was overpaid - many sports players are, for what they do. He spends more of his time as a celeb, a kind of English Justin Timberlake who sells himself out to the latest advertizer. Then again too many sports players seem to do that.

As for Man U, the one thing I remember is that a fraction of the people who support it have any real connection to Manchester. That's the price of success, perhaps. As soon as you do badly, all of those tyoe of fans melt away. Whether they're in Dublin, Dubai or Duluth.

Up to you. I've played and watched both myself. I've also played football* and rugby league, and watched Australian Rules and Gaelic football all of which are superior to soccer. I prefer rugby for its complexity (which is a turn off for some people). Soccer on the other hand strikes me as a simple game for simple people, with incredibly little variety in play, except perhaps when someone uses their head to propel the ball into goal.

Much of the time I've watched it, nothing much happens. Often no one scores. Sometimes they score when I've practically fallen asleep and then you have to wait another half hour for anything to happen.

I've traveled around the world, and soccer is big. There are some places it is less big - Australia and India to name but two, but it's everywhere. I think soccer is big because it requires little equipment and is simple to understand. In some places, people are so brainwashed into soccer fandom, they don't understand why you don't care about it.

* My main issue with football (American) is that it stops and starts too much. Soccer at least has continuous play.

Some of the very best games I have ever watched have resulted in scoreless ties. You define the game as simple and I suppose in many ways it is but there is far more nuance in the game than just a simple idea of putting the ball in the opponent's goal. Association football (soccer is just a nickname coined by newspapers in England almost a hundred years ago to save em space) is hardly without action for its 90 minutes especially compared with American football where a two and a half hour game might have only ten to 15 minutes where the ball is actually in play or even rugby which has constant stoppages. Ultimately I suppose it comes down to personal preference for your game of choice.

As to women playing the game. Yes they can play, though in England where I grew up eons ago football was not considered a game women would play. American women were some of the first to take up the game which might be one reason they are more dominant in the women's game today while the men's national team is mediocre at best.

Their level of play is good in the context of the women's game but likely a good 16 or 17 year old boy's team would show the difference in that level of play.

I don't mind playing soccer, or didn't in my younger years, but I find it dull to watch. I've watched so many finals where no one scores, it goes to a goal shoot at the end, and that goes on for another hour (or feels like it). I don't like the constant stoppages in football, but I find the tactics a bit more interesting than soccer.

That Simpsons clip I posted below reflects how I feel about soccer. Soccer fans are obsessive though - scary obsessive, not just goofy obsessive. Very violent.

You are painting with a broad brush in suggesting without any qualifier that soccer fans are violent. Some are but more are not.

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You are painting with a broad brush in suggesting
> without any qualifier that soccer fans are
> violent. Some are but more are not.

That's as maybe, but every time there's a major soccer match in Europe, the riot police come out.

Soccer fandom is notorious for its problems. I know it happens with other sports, but soccer takes it to a whole new level.

Jordan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kentish Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You are painting with a broad brush in
> suggesting
> > without any qualifier that soccer fans are
> > violent. Some are but more are not.
>
> That's as maybe, but every time there's a major
> soccer match in Europe, the riot police come out.
>
>
> Soccer fandom is notorious for its problems. I
> know it happens with other sports, but soccer
> takes it to a whole new level.


Your premise is so patently exaggerated as to be laughable.

It's certainly laughable. Why would anybody punch or knife anyone because of some people chasing a ball.

It's a serious phenomenon. It used to be England in the 1980s, now it's Greeks, Turks, Croats etc destroying downtown areas.

I've had a bit of trouble cutting amd pasting on this device (sorry sorry for anything about advertising etc). Despite that problem, this should give you a flavor of nasty soccer fandom can be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_hooliganism

https://www.therichest.com/sports-entertainment/the-15-most-disgusting-soccer-riots-that-ever-happened/





Russia-

https://www.therichest.com/sports-entertainment/the-15-most-disgusting-soccer-riots-that-ever-happened/

"For many decades, the English supporters were seen as the "hard men" of football, and this was a title that the Russians wanted to steal from the English. Here was an opportunity for the Russians to show that they were tougher, stronger, and more brutal than the famed English hooligans. And they seem to have proven their point. The Russians, not the English, were the aggressors in this situation, as they were the ones who charged the English fans after the match. These Russian supporters had reportedly been "training in the woods" for months to prepare for this fight, and created an army of 150 supporters who flew in for the sole purpose of attacking the English. The riots left 35 injured, and one English fan in critical condition. The violence in the stadium later spread throughout the city, and has since been called simply "The Battle of Marseilles."

"
But almost immediately, the police commander was struck in the head and injured, so the police began firing their rifles into the air in a vain effort to subdue the crowd. All this did, however, was to cause a stampede that crushed multiple people, leaving 13 dead and 36 injured. Most of the victims were young people from age 11 to 16, who were trampled to death or crushed against walls by the mob who were fighting desperately to escape the police and their gunfire.

Congo -
"


The riots are as varied as they are bloody. Sometimes it's fans of one team versus other fans, but many times it's the police force who are fighting fans. No matter who's fighting, deaths are tragically common. Often, it is the innocent supporters who are killed - the children and elderly smashed against walls and trampled to death unwittingly by the belligerent hooligans. Sometimes police officers are killed. Sometimes people are killed simply because they're mistaken for being of a certain nationality. What makes people riot? The obvious answer is that there is something tribal that is awakened within these people as they overzealously support their team of choice, and a soccer game (with all its emotional ups and downs) can be that crucial match that ignites fury and berserk rage. On the other hand, many people have also pointed out that "hooliganism" tends to erupt most intensely in decades of economic strife, where opportunities are limited, and class division is high.

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https://www.therichest.com/sports-entertainment/the-15-most-disgusting-soccer-riots-that-ever-happened/
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15
ENGLAND VS RUSSIA - EURO CUP 2016
via: nypost.com
The incident that immediately comes to mind is one fresh in our memories - the riot that erupted after the Euro 2016 match between Russia and England. England, in predictable disappointing fashion, drew 1-1 with the relatively low-rated Russian team. But the biggest disappointment was yet to come. Once again, English and Russian fans proved that football hooliganism is alive and well, as a massive brawl erupted in the stadium between hardcore supporters of the two nations. It was later revealed that the Russians had been waiting for a moment just like this.

For many decades, the English supporters were seen as the "hard men" of football, and this was a title that the Russians wanted to steal from the English. Here was an opportunity for the Russians to show that they were tougher, stronger, and more brutal than the famed English hooligans. And they seem to have proven their point. The Russians, not the English, were the aggressors in this situation, as they were the ones who charged the English fans after the match. These Russian supporters had reportedly been "training in the woods" for months to prepare for this fight, and created an army of 150 supporters who flew in for the sole purpose of attacking the English. The riots left 35 injured, and one English fan in critical condition. The violence in the stadium later spread throughout the city, and has since been called simply "The Battle of Marseilles."

14
GERMANY VS YUGOSLAVIA - WORLD CUP 1998
via: news.asiaone.com
The 1998 World Cup was one of the most violent of all time. There were many instances of hooliganism, but perhaps one of the worst occurred before the match between Germany and Yugoslavia. Like the clash between Russia and England, this also occurred in France, in the city of Lens. Before the match began, German hooligans attacked 3 police officers. These police officers quickly became outnumbered, and one of them, Daniel Nivel, was beaten over the head with advertising boards. He was quickly singled out and isolated from the other officers, and while he was on the ground his helmet was removed. He was then repeatedly struck and stomped, suffering severe head injuries. He fell into a 6-week long coma, and was left with permanent brain damage and disabilities, including a speech impediment. Many of his attackers suffered severe charges, with one being tried in France, jailed for 5 years, and banned from ever entering France again. Four were tried in Germany, with one being charged with attempted murder and receiving a ten year prison sentence. The others were given less severe sentences.

13
THE BATTLE OF BEVERWIJK
via: sport24.gr
The Dutch are very infamous for their football hooliganism, and one of the worst displays of this activity took place in an event that became somewhat of a legend. It was nicknamed "The Battle of Beverwijk." Two teams in the Netherlands hate each other the most - Feyenoord and Ajax FC. The hooligans on both teams are always waiting for an opportunity to kick each other's teeth in, and in March of 1997, that opportunity presented itself. Amazingly, this incident didn't even take place in a stadium, or even outside the stadium. It took place on a motorway. This was actually a common battleground that hooligans on both sides had mutually chosen for their fights in the past, but the last meeting here had ended in retreat for Ajax, as the Feyenoord fans arrived in the hundreds, while the Ajax supporters arrived with the previously agreed upon number of 50 men. The Ajax hooligans were forced to retreat.

The Ajax fans essentially told the Feyenoord hooligans to bring everyone they could, because in the next battle they would be bringing their entire army. They met on a meadow near the A9 motorway near Beverwijk. This battle had no rules, with both sides bringing knives, baseball bats, and even electro-shock weapons. The fighting was intense, and when the police arrived the bloody battle was already over. One man was killed, Ajax supporter Carlo Picornie. He was hit so hard with a claw hammer that he instantly died. Many supporters on both sides were arrested and charged with varied crimes, and those apparently responsible for Picornie's death were charged with murder.

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12
UPTON PARK RIOT - 2009
via: whoateallthepies.tv
Rivalry is always fierce when two London clubs meet, and one of the worst clashes of this type was between Millwall and West Ham, two clubs that absolutely hate each other. Several times during the game, fans invaded the pitch, and the game had to be stopped and restarted repeatedly. Outside the stadium, there was even more violence, and the FA (The British Football Association) was unpleasantly reminded of the 1980's, where hooliganism was much more common and violence happened on a daily and uncontrollable basis. The game in 2009 proved that hooliganism is alive and well in football. A 44-year-old Millwall supporter was stabbed outside the stadium, but was later reported to be in a stable condition. One manager in English football advised the FA to pass a rule forbidding Millwall from playing West Ham ever again, which obviously never happened. One West Ham supporter was even photographed invading the pitch carrying his child on his shoulders.

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11
THE 1996 EURO CUP SEMI-FINALS
via: ultraseurope.net
The 1996 Euro Cup Semi-Final between Germany and England is just one instance in a long list of hooliganism that has given English fans such a bad reputation in the international community. To make matters worse and even more inexplicable, the match took place in England, and resulted in English hooligans vandalizing and terrorizing their own country. The riots erupted after England lost to Germany, with Gareth Southgate missing a penalty late in the game, and cities and towns all over England were struck with simultaneous rioting. The worst of these riots took place in Trafalgar Square in London, where a 2,000 man mob threw bottles at passing cars, people, and police. They also set fire to several cars and vandalized shops. In Brighton, a 17-year-old Russian boy was stabbed 5 times when a group of youths mistook him for a German. A police officer suffered a head injury when a bottle struck him on the head in Wiltshire.

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10
1985 - LUTON VS MILLWALL
via: huffingtonpost.co.uk
Millwall has already been mentioned in this list, and as you will see from this incident, they have a history of being at the very heart of some of the most brutal soccer riots ever recorded. The year was 1985, during a decade classified by some of the worst hooliganism in English history. The Millwall hooligans (nicknamed the "Bushwackers") showed up en masse to the Luton Town stadium for the FA Cup tie, only to find out that there weren't enough tickets. Determined not to go home without causing a raucous, they smashed the windows of several shops and attacked news vendors. The ones who did get in were crowded into an away section of the stadium, with some overflowing into areas they weren't supposed to be. Since they were already overflowing from the assigned seating area, it wasn't difficult for them to break free of these confines, onto the pitch, and towards the Luton Town supporters. These home fans were pelted by rocks, coins, and bottles. They then continued to attack the home fans, and rip apart the stadium, destroying many of its seats. This prompted Luton Town to ban all away fans from visiting their stadium for years. It also sparked a reactionary movement by the Thatcher government against hooliganism.

9
THE 1982 NORTH LONDON DERBY
via: birminghammail.co.uk
Another example of the kind of fierce hooliganism that existed during the 80's in England happened during a match between Arsenal and West Ham. The year was 1982, and fans were getting more and more brutal and adventurous with their flavors of violence. They were starting to bring weapons into the stadium, and the supporters leading the way towards an ever-rising standard of brutality were those behind West Ham. They have been mentioned before in this list, and they are generally thought to be one of the most dangerous gangs of supporters in England. But Arsenal also had their own gang of violent supporters, nicknamed the "Gooners," and these two gangs were the only ingredients necessary in this recipe for destruction.

The West Ham expected to be unopposed when they rioted and invaded the Arsenal home supporter's stands, but the Arsenal supporters put up a surprising fight. Still, it wasn't enough to defend their turf, and they were pushed back out of their own stands. But while the West Ham supporters taunted their opponents, a group of Arsenal fans regrouped and pushed back into their stands, intent on retaking their territory. West Ham fans were shocked and overwhelmed by this move, and were pushed back so far that they almost fell off the edge of the stands. The police moved in to protect the West Ham supporters, and the situation was diffused. However, later that night an Arsenal fan was surrounded by West Ham fans and brutally stabbed to death. Still, that night proved to be a turning point for Arsenal fans, and West Ham supporters never tried to invade their stands again.

8
THE 1975 EUROPEAN CUP FINAL
via: twb22.blogspot.ca
England fans were once again at the center of controversy when Leeds United played Bayern Munich in the 1975 European Cup Final. The match took place in Paris, and after a series of questionable refereeing decisions that went against Leeds United, their fans lost it. They started hurtling bottles and other objects onto the pitch, and eventually invaded the field. They also ripped apart seating of the stadium, and attacked pretty much anyone they could find. They also somehow caused a German cameraman to lose an eye, as well as breaking the arm of another photographer, and reportedly smashed a video camera worth thousands of dollars. But the violence was not all one-sided. Former Leeds United legend Bobby Collins was beaten up outside of the stadium. This, at the time, was one of the worst instances of violence in soccer history, and prompted UEFA to consider abandoning all future European competitions. But little did they know, the 80s were about to bring a whole new wave of violence.


"there was a rumor going around that one of the players was using witchcraft. As you may or may not know, in some African countries, people still vehemently believe in witchcraft, and those accused are often burned or brutally executed. So when this rumor spread across a soccer stadium, violence was sure to occur. People began to riot, and the police were quick to step in to protect the players and the people. But almost immediately, the police commander was struck in the head and injured, so the police began firing their rifles into the air in a vain effort to subdue the crowd. All this did, however, was to cause a stampede that crushed multiple people, leaving 13 dead and 36 injured. Most of the victims were young people from age 11 to 16, who were trampled to death or crushed against walls by the mob who were fighting desperately to escape the police and their gunfire."

UK -

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3773616/football-hooligans-glasgow-scotland-england-match-bottles-thrown-at-players-fan-glassed-arrests/

"FOOTBALL hooligans ran amok after Scotland clashed with England in Glasgow, with gangs of thugs on the rampage, bottles thrown at players and a fan "glassed" at a pub.

"There were 13 arrests in and around Scottish national stadium Hampden Park during the game, which left Scots heartbroken after England scored a last minute equaliser to make it to 2-2."

Statistically speaking, your belief in the horrors attendant to soccer make it an easy conclusion that you refuse to ride in automobiles because AUTOMOBILES KILL PEOPLE!!!


I'm exaggerating? Who, me?

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Statistically speaking, your belief in the horrors
> attendant to soccer make it an easy conclusion
> that you refuse to ride in automobiles because
> AUTOMOBILES KILL PEOPLE!!!
>
>
> I'm exaggerating? Who, me?

Automobiles are a huge problem in some respects - they kill, maim and don't mix well with alcohol or drugs. Their misuse takes up a lot of police time.

Oh and they pollute big time.

Soccer fandom has a BIG problem with anti-social behavior. Not at women's games or at most US games, but certainly in some parts of the world, it has gotten out of control.

I have been in countries where a big soccer game takes place and an entire downtown is shut down and taken over by police to prevent rioting or violence. It's something to behold.

I have also seen other major sports in progress and the atmosphere is nowhere near as edgy. Rugby in Auckland, New Zealand. Hurling in Dublin, Ireland. Even most US sports. Fewer police than the soccer fames too. So why does it happen? Don't really know. But it is there in soccer.

If soccer fans and auto drivers behaved themselves, we wouldn't have these problems, but we do.

Monomaniacal much?

I made an allusion to your penchant for isolating a tiny point of view and acting as if it represented the totality of reality and you responded with additional support for my contention.

I wish you continued good fortune in liberating the Earth from its various yokes of oppression.

GO JORDAN'S REALITY!!!

Sure, I mean at the women's world cup, there will be little or no violence, but are you naïve enough to think that America's experience of soccer is representative of the rest of the world? The fact that elsewhere, played by adults in front of huge crowds, it is mostly male-dominated, is the main team sport in most places and has huge salaries... Well these factors alone should convince you that the American bubble isn't the sole experience.

Not my opinion. Fact. Look it up.

There is AMPLE evidence of soccer related rioting internationally. AMPLE. It"s common in high level men's games. It's not my opinion, it's fact. When the men's world cup was in Russia, the FSB had to pay off and threaten the more psychotic homegrown fans away from their usual behavior. Look it up if you can't accept my descriptions.

Look up a few non-North American soccer forums. If you think my views are too harsh, then it will be an eye opener for you.

Relentless, monomaniacal and soon to be without meaningful social intercourse here, and it is unlikely to be a novelty to you.

But I suppose you're used to paying the price of always being right. Heavy lies the crown...

What? For stating an opinion? Do you think we should all be "mice" and sit quietly and meekly in the corner?

That might be your average sacrament meeting, but if you haven't noticed, we're trying to get away from this.

I note your appeal to censorship as well. Another person who wants their life to be an echo chamber. You might wish to be a mealy mouthed episilon, but I don't.

I provided you with evidence. Now go and look at it please.

* epsilon

No one disputes that there have been unpleasant events at, or should I say around, soccer. Your original premise was: "...EV ERY TIME there's a major soccer match in Europe the riot police come out." That is a false. Were the riot police there when Liverpool beat Tottentham recently for the European Champion's cup in Madrid" How about when Tottenham beat Ajax in the semi final? Even one game proves the falsity of your "every time" claim and the fact that far more games are without riot police than are makes it OTT.

Read what I said. I didn't say there was a riot at every game, rather that there were riot police hanging around at every major game. People on horseback, what used to be called "paddy wagons" on the ready, a heavy police presence. It's a pretty unpleasant atmosphere, and the police try and keep the groups of fans separate (unlike most other sports). Many bars in the UK have signs up saying people are not allowed to wear soccer tops ("football colours" - sic), even if they show it on the television. I'm an Anglophile in some senses, but a lot of the UK often feels like it's falling apart, socially and architecturally. (When I first visited London in the 1970s, it still had parts which had never been built on since they were bombed in WWII. Manchester was even worse.) The soccer hooliganism is a symptom of that decay. The Brits never fully got over themselves for losing their empire.

I'm actually about the only person on this thread who has backed up their opinions with external sources. But hey, that isn't good enough. European soccer fans are always polite and the golden plates are real.

I quoted you exactly as you wrote it.

D'oh!

None of it supports your premise that almost every important game in Europe has the riot police turning up. They don't. I have attended countless games over the years, including Premier League, internationals and World Cup games. I have never seen riot police at any of them despite your claim they are at almost every important game in Europe.

I've provided several links thers. The link between soccer and hooliganism is no secret - an old saying has it that soccer is a "game for gentlemen played by hooligans". You claim not to have seen it. I have. Mounted police. Big police trucks everywhere. I found it edgy.

I take it you have been to major gamea in the UK. Perhaps you'd like to comment about how rival fans chant to Brighton about "Does your boyfriend now you're here?", or make hissing noises like at Hotspur (because it has a lot of Jewish fans), or how Glasgow sings "the famine's over, why don't yo go home?" and "no surrender to the IRA" at Irish fans? Or how fans throw bananas at black players? It's not a pretty culture. It makes me look left wing. If you don't believe any of this. Look it up. All available on Youtube, Google and other searches.

As previously stated, women's soccer and US soccer rarely has these issues.

You did indeed provide links above.

But one of them was to the Huffington Post, so I don't know how you can possibly expect us to believe what you say.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You did indeed provide links above.
>
> But one of them was to the Huffington Post, so I
> don't know how you can possibly expect us to
> believe what you say.

If you don't like that, look up the other evidence. There's plenty of it.

Don't do the Mormon thing of sticking your fingers in your ears and humming, because you think something is untrue when the evidence is places in front of you.

Whoosh.

Try stepping outside your American bubble occasionally. The US experience of soccer is atypical.

I couldn't give a monkey's cuss if some of those links refer to the Huff Post. Even they can be right about certain things. They are not my ideal source but turn up rapidly on search engines due to new internet censorship where you are automatically pointed to such resources.

You are being truly Mormon here. If you care to look out there, you can find hundreds, if not thousands, of arrticles on soccer-related violence and bigotry.

But hey, you know soccer is true, that it is always peaceful. You know that your American experience of it is the only one. Yeah, you're in real Mormon teeritory here.

p.s. I would cut down your intake of beans and cabbage. You seem to have some gas there.

In my high school in Scotland, rugby was for the kids that had poor ball-eye coordination. ;o)

Darren Steers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my high school in Scotland, rugby was for the
> kids that had poor ball-eye coordination. ;o)

Really? I thought rugby was invented as a form of haggis hunting!

More likely a class thing. Football developed out of the working classes. Rugby Union came from the private school of the same name. Rugby League is the working class version of the game.

kentish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> More likely a class thing. Football developed out
> of the working classes. Rugby Union came from
> the private school of the same name. Rugby League
> is the working class version of the game.

Soccer plays up its blue collar origins, but it isn't true. It too came out of English private schools, and the upper ranks, and there has always been big money involved and still is. It has just been better at hiding its history.

Gridiron and rugby are much better reflections of the traditional football of Europe than soccer ever was (minus all the helmets etc). The old football games of Europe involved scrimmages and carrying the ball, unlike soccer. I believe old Irish football was more like these games than Gaelic football too.

I thought English private schools were most noted for their devotion to cricket... In Dorothy L. Sayers Lord Peter oeuvre, Lord Peters expertise in cricket is often mentioned. You can imagine how I was left clueless with this: "I say, Peter, remember the torrent of wickets you took that day? You led off by bowling five overs, four maidens, for one run and four wickets!!"

There's only so much time in a day, or a life, and I remain clueless as to what that meant.


Jordan, I'll give you credit for being relentless when it comes to publishing your opinions as foundational truths.

Cricket was played in "public" schools. Cricket is the summer game and rugby the fall and winter game. Every sport has its baffling terms and few have as many rules that crop up on virtually every play as American football. Totally bewildering to those unfamiliar with the game as cricket would be to those unfamiliar with it. None of the terms you mentioned are a puzzle to me as I grew up playing the game. A great game to play but perhaps more a state of mind to watch.

Cricket is *one* of the games that English private schools tend to play, but it is the SUMMER game. Rugby is the winter game, cricket isn't played in winter. Give me baseball anyday. Cricket is bizarre, slow and goes on for weeks as far as I can tell.

As stated previously, soccer was codified in Uppingham and Charterhouse, both major English private schools. Eton played a major part in the development of soccer too. A lot of the British private schools have their own weird sports as well that no one else has heard of.

Rugby used to be much more widespread and is a direct ancestor of American, Canadian and Australian football.

I guess we read different history books. The kicking of what might be termed a ball began centuries ago. The formation and rules of the game came much later and nothing I have read suggests they were developed at traditional English "public" schools.

Many of the professional teams in the English leagues began as factory or works teams or were created by groups of ordinary neighborhood workers. Typical would be Arsenal, founded by workers at a munitions factory and arsenal.

A quick bit of online searching shows that soccer comes out of the élite private schools of Charterhouse, Uppingham and is traditionally the main sport at Eton which is where most British prime minister have been.

There is a very similar ancient Asian sport called cuju, but it seems to have little connection with soccer.

Because I didn't have much time, Wikipedia will have to do. Here is a classical era quotation:

"Julius Pollux[14] includes harpastum and phaininda in a list of ball games:

"'Phaininda takes its name from Phaenides, who first invented it, or from phenakizein (to deceive),[15] because they show the ball to one man and then THROW to another, contrary to expectation. It is likely that this is the same as the game with the small ball, which takes its name from harpazein (to SNATCH);[16] and perhaps one would call the game with the soft ball by the same name."'"

Doesn't sound like soccer at all. Throwing, snatching...

A picture of a still played form of traditional English football. Again not like soccer and includes scrimmaging and holding the ball.

https://n7.alamy.com/zooms/7b1afa507d6644649911f2ccda836b0d/ashbourne-royal-shrovetide-medieval-football-match-derbyshire-peak-h7ga6p.jpg

Yup, it's a girl sport. But also a boy sport! The trouble is, the boys don't tend to rack up the big scores like the girls do. ;)

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yup, it's a girl sport. But also a boy sport! The
> trouble is, the boys don't tend to rack up the big
> scores like the girls do. ;)

It is played by both, but internationally boys' soccer is far far bigger. The USA is about the only place where it is mostly a game for girls and children. I'll be honest though - the high scoring in women's soccer is a plus for me - I've hated watching men's games where nothing ever happens and no one ever scores.

The men's game is a joke though. Men who fall on the ground in faux agony if someone taps them on their shoulder. They also sport the most ridiculous hairstyles imaginable, and seem to spend more time on that than their playing skills.

Then there's the violence. Women's soccer doesn't have it yet, but maybe it's a matter of time. In some places, like the Balkans, they have to shut off entire downtown areas when there is a soccer game in process as the fans have a tendency to dismantle things and beat up anyone in their way.

This Simpsons' portrayal of soccer is incredibly accurate (although, granted it is about the men's game).

https://youtu.be/rJu2qSJ9zno

Jordan Wrote:
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> This Simpsons' portrayal of soccer is incredibly
> accurate (although granted it is about the men's
> game).
>
> https://youtu.be/rJu2qSJ9zno


I love The Simpsons. I love ribaldry and silliness. I found the snippet to be hilarious!!

It was hilarious because of its contrast with reality.

Homer's beer drinking is to reality as is this depiction of professional soccer, to reality. That's why this was funny.

I'm beginning to harbor doubts regarding not only your purpose here as a board participant but also your ability to decipher a reality that doesn't continually swerve into oncoming lanes.

As previously stated, the evidence for soccer troubles outside North America is ample. I don't have to prove it, you have to go and look at the material I provided. Or don't, and if so don't bother me with that.

You may dislike me for airing my opinions directly, but I spent years of my life doing no such thing. I regret it. When I started to do so I went somewhere in life. I'm not just going to sit like in priesthood or Sunday school and nod sagely, let alone take the class and put someone else's words into my mouth. Nor do I have to say "yes yes, no no" to a series of questions someone asks me in an office to get a small piece of paper to give me permission to enter a building.

It’s a rough girl’s game. They’re always kicking your balls and blocking where you want to put them.

The USA women's soccer team has won 3 world cups; going for their fourth. All over the world, soccer is the biggest sport in the nation. Finally the U.S. is catching on. Soccer players, whether male or female, are in tip top shape physically and have the endurance needed for constant movement on a large playing field. American football players on the other hand, don't seem to move around much; maybe it's because their muffin top waists seem to get in the way. If the USA women's team wins the world cup again, there should be a huge celebration nation wide, and not just a hand shake at the capitol.

But hardly a ripple on the larger football/soccer world stage. The final of the men's under-20 World Cup is this Saturday. Perhaps the winner of the women's World Cup should play the winner of that game to determine their level of play.

Yes. It is a girl's sport.

Growing up we couldn't play flag or touch football with the girls so we played soccer.

We even had a soccer "tournament" at the city fourth of july celebration.

Was fun for several years until some returned missionary who served in Europe was the ref. All of a sudden we needed strikers and defenders and were off sides and had penalty kicks. Some teams just walked away and the tradition ended.

We played a lot of kick ball because we could include boys and girls and younger kids could play.

My rather frustrating introduction to the world cup seriousness came when we were on a plane in a south American country and couldn't get fueled until the match ended. We thought it was unique to that country like baseball's world series.

When we finally got to our next destination in a second country we apologized we were late because the previous country had some stupid soccer tournament.

We had the weirdest looks. One of the officials said the US hadn't been to a world cup in decades. We said well for a women's sport there isn't much call for it in the States. We have Football, basketball, baseball and hockey. No real time to televise women chasing a ball around.

Things sure have changed since the 60s and 70s

I have seen 3 injuries from last night's game just this morning!

One was an intentionally broken wrist.

So yes, there is violence in women's soccer.

EDITED: wrong place!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2019 09:00PM by elderolddog.

...Well, heck!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2019 09:01PM by elderolddog.

When we were stationed in England, when we were in the military, soccer( football there) was in all the pubs. The people there take it serious. We’ve been out when a game got over once when we were visiting Cambridge.People were all over the streets cheering and chanting. I heard about them tipping over cars and stuff, but we didn’t see it .
We both loved Rugby, even before we went there. We only found a couple of pubs that supported Rugby. They even had signs outside that said” We support Rugby”.
A lot of them were Irish pubs.
Ice hockey is our sport, pro and college, and the women’s team too.