I find myself really attracted to her. She invites me to do things with her for fun like grabbing lunch or just hanging out, but it makes it so awkward, like we’re going on a date or something, so I avoid interaction as much as possible. But now I’m worried that she thinks I’m being rude.

Any advice? Have you been in a situation like this?

There are Off-Topic exceptions, but this board is geared primarily towards people who have had negative experiences with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If your situation connects thusly, there will be a number of people who will be interested in hearing about your situation, and sharing their thoughts.

Absent that, there are lots of boards and forums where you can anonymously share your situation. Wherever you go, you'll need to share some more info, such as how serious is the relationship with between your brother and this lady, etc.

Godspeed!

Hello, sorry for the lack of details
Yes, all born and raised active Mormons. I’m still attending (for the community, but I’m on my way out). Brother is a member, girlfriend is Catholic. Religion is a big part in everyone’s lives.

Figure out if it's going anywhere. How old are you three? High school relationships rarely last through college. If you're talking last two years of college, then they may be serious.

Also, you have to take a very hard, objective examination of yourself and what you find attractive about her. She may be a worthwhile love object in her own right; OTOH, she could be a proxy in competition with your brother.

If you've been lurking on this board, then you know a lot of the issues which motivate people to separate from LDS. Does the girl have any idea of what she's getting involved with regarding an LDS boyfriend? How about your brother? Any chance he's secretly distancing himself (like you are) and this non-LDS girlfriend is part of an unconscious strategy? Or is he hoping to convert her?

See? So many questions. Attempt some discrete inquiries. If the three of you are together for pizza or something, bring up some other religion -- say, Protestantism--for discussion. Then see if the other two bring up their own beliefs, and ascertain (if possible) their degree of sincerity ("testimony"). You might also ascertain what they expect the other to do (convert, accommodate, what?).

If you're in Salt Lake, look up Utah Lighthouse Ministry, a Christian resource. They have lots of books and pamphlets which a Catholic investigator might find helpful.

Very late in my time zone. We'll see if other posters have thoughts in the morning.

Godspeed!

I didn't know Jesus had a sister.

LOL.

What would Joseph Smith Do?

Oh, that's what you meant!

;)

We know what Joseph Smith would do:

Send the brother on a mission and "marry" the girl!

He'd also ask if she had any sisters.

Or a mom.

True!

WWJSD2yourSister?

He used the story of an angel with the flaming sword to break up Henry Jacobs marriage.

I can make this relevant. I found myself extremely attracted to a couple of married women when I was *at church.* And marriage is obviously one step up from a relationship.

Unlike the degenerates/sex maniacs in soap operas and telenovelas or the main characters Anna Karenina, I didn't try to start anything or indulge myself. And I saw no evidence that either woman was interested in me at all. Another deterrent was that one of these women was married to a guy who was always kind and pleasant to me. The other woman had children, which was also a deterrent, in the sense that I had no interest in splitting up their parents.

Most women are attached in my experience, but it depends whether you want to destroy that or not. In a few cases, maybe, but if it involves destroying a family or hurting a good person then no.

I wouldn't recommend it with your brother. For the simple reason you may be hearing about it possibly for the rest of your life, and you're always tied to your siblings/close relatives in a way that you aren't to other people.

How did I deal with it? Well, you may be different than me, but I'm not one of those love at first sight people. It is more a gradual thing for me, and I can stop myself early on. There is often some point at which I can feel the scales tipping, and that is when I decide whether I want to follow those feelings or not.

If you don't want to cuck your brother, then don't stay in her company, especially not if she's there. Make excuses, do other things with other people etc. Worst case scenario - try and cut ties as much as possible. There are a lot of cucks out there, but you don't have to be the one cuckolding.

God you're sick.

I am so fascinated by your comment to the OP that I have to ask you. Are you saying that barring the children, the nice husband, and their unexpressed attraction for you - you would have had the charm, suave, debonair, and physical sexiness to "break their attachments" and have them fall for you?

Fascinated Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am so fascinated by your comment to the OP that
> I have to ask you. Are you saying that barring the
> children, the nice husband, and their unexpressed
> attraction for you - you would have had the charm,
> suave, debonair, and physical sexiness to "break
> their attachments" and have them fall for you?

No, I'm not. They never showed the slightest interest in me, as I said.

I've never made a pass at women that I know to be married. At least one of the three people involved is going to end unhappy, right? Either me, her, or the person she's married to.

When I called him "sick," this is part of what I was remarking. He thinks he is so attractive that he can have whomever he wants. In other threads he has told us that he has left a string of very satisfied women behind. It sounds so remarkably like an adolescent boy trying to persuade his friends that he is Don Juan.

The other thing that bothered me was this passage:

"If you don't want to cuck your brother, then don't stay in her company, especially not if she's there. Make excuses, do other things with other people etc. Worst case scenario - try and cut ties as much as possible. There are a lot of cucks out there, but you don't have to be the one cuckolding."

"Cuckold" is a word that was for long consigned, along with hyperventilated prose about Marxism, to the rubbish bin of history. It has gained new currency in right-wing politics, where men are so anxious that others might doubt their prowess that they obsess about the phenomenon. It thus tells us much about the author.

It is also a bizarre word and image to employ when talking to a kid about his evidently innocent and asexual "crush" on a schoolmate. Discretion is often the better part of valor, and using the word "cuckold" to a teenager seems to involve a considerable degree of projection as well as a striking lack of appropriate boundaries.

Such lack of judgment implies an emotional imbalance, the emotional IQ of a pubescent boy, or both. If anyone were to speak to a child like that in real life, he may well make the acquaintance of the local authorities.

Can you tell me where I've said I'm irrestible to women? My love life has not been too bad, and I'm glad that's the case. If I ever meet any of my ex's, we're usually still amicable. One or two bad break ups, but mostly in my teens.

One of the paradoxes of romance is that the people we are attracted to are often not the same people who are attracted to us. That happens to most people, most of the time, at least to begin with. There are a few exceptions to that rule.

I've been very lucky in my relationships. But I've never wanted to marry, because I've seen how it can end up. It may happen one day, but I doubt it. (Despite what my patriarchal blessing says.)

As stated previously:
* The women concerned showed no interest in me
* I did nothing (consciously) to indicate my attraction to them.
* I took steps to avoid making my feelings for them develop any further.

Can you tell me what exactly is wrong with any of these three statements?

As it happens, a member of my family was cuckolded, but that's a story for another time.

"If anyone were to speak to a child like that in real life, he may well make the acquaintance of the local authorities."

You assume the OP is a child. I don't. Have a word with yourself.

My guess was someone at college. But there you go.

That's a revealing post. Of all the topics I addressed, the one that you felt most compelled to address was your romantic history. There's a lot to glean from that.

You can make good decisions in spite of your hormones. Just because you have a sex drive, doesn't mean you have to be a dumbass.

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can make good decisions in spite of your
> hormones. Just because you have a sex drive,
> doesn't mean you have to be a dumbass.

Exactly, and because his brother is involved, he may never hear the end of it. I know of brothers who never spoke for sixty years because of a woman!

Tell your brother how you feel about her. He might be happy for you. If you’re lucky, he might be up for a threesome.

Your brother will almost surely be in your life longer than this woman will.

Keep that in mind before you do anything you might regret later.

The fact that this woman keeps trying to spend time with you alone should send up red flags.

She may be trying to create some jealousy, or she may just be trying out her sexual attractiveness.

Back off. There are lots of women out there.

Lois

AnonymousX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
so I avoid interaction as much as
> possible. But now I’m worried that she thinks
> I’m being rude.

Interact with her only in groups, or when your brother is involved. be friendly/polite to her, hang out and watch an occasional DVD, or go to lunch ... but ONLY with brother involved.

> Any advice? Have you been in a situation like
> this?

just because you have a feeling or emotion, doesn't mean you need to act on it. that's one of the reasons Mormons get suckered into so many scams -- they FEEL that it's a good investment opportunity. they use their emotions to make major decisions that should also involve the brain. lots of ex-mos make the same mistakes. they reject the LDS church, but often keep the same decision-making process. I've seen people think they're so sophisticated for rejecting the lies of Mormonism. then they turn around and accept the lies of Marxism or the lies of energy healing with magical crystals.

I have suggested before that Jordan and HWint are the same poster. And neither poster directly denied that.

Here it is again. The same rambling syntax, the bizarre digressions into personal experiences and condescending advice, the obsession in all things with Marxism--not Communism so much as Marxism...

I mean, how many among us will comment on a topic like a kid's love life and end up in Marxism? Jordan would. HWint would.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2019 02:23PM by Lot's Wife.

I also suspect they are the same poster. We haven't had anyone come blab here constantly about communism and suddenly two with identical views?

I also believe Kori and Schrodinger's Cat appear to be the same person. If there was a denial for that, I missed it.

I'm not accusing anyone, but it does happen. It is cowardly and deliberately confusing to post with multiple names at once. I wish admin could give us a heads up if they know. I can understand people in situations needing a different name if it is an obvious one time personal issue.

I presume they are using different IP addresses and also admin should not have to spend time comparing everything. It's nice when posters can ask and share their concerns with other posters. Thanks, LW.

I suspect it too. It's interesting that HWINT seems to purposely change his/her grammar and punctuation (e.g. not cap'ing the first letter in each sentence) and delib trying to make the post appear different. Me thinks he is trying to much and therefore tells on himself to the rest of us. Very strange.

I went back and scanned a bunch of Hwint's posts. They are in some ways virtually identical to Jordan's. What we have are,

-Jordan seven years ago saying that he lived in Canada and was familiar with the area around Calgary, then disappearing for several years.

-Jordan a year or so ago appearing and saying that he doesn't live in the US, commenting with familiarity about the area around Calgary and other parts of Canada, and using terms like "fuck all" that are a lot more English/Canadian than American. When I pointed that out, he denied that he lived in Canada. But then he reverts to habitual Canadian-style vocabulary like "fuck all."

-HWint shows up about two years ago and almost immediately tells us he lives in Utah and is married to a non-American spouse who speaks good English but prefers to talk in her native tongue. When I looked at his posts, though, there is the same grandiose and condescending advice, the disparaging remarks about Marxism, insults to liberals, talk about social decay, and gratuitous asides about everything from love to psychology. When I write that he and Jordan appear to be the same person, Hwint does not reply. Jordan does, but he issues a non-denial denial about it not being in his interests if another poster posts similar ideas.

Most importantly, the writing styles are conspicuously similar. Long rambling sentences and passages with lots of subordinate clauses often introducing irrelevant political asides. A strong tendency to flit from one topic to another, each addressed with self-confident condescension, etc. Identical and similar phrasing, frequent use of the same unusual words and grammatical structures.

It's redolent of McDonkie in his myriad incarnations, showing up and writing in the same style, trying hard to keep his paranoia under control but ultimately falling back into his idees fixes. It is surprising how many people think they can run multiple personalities on this site without others recognizing their ideas and their writing patterns.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2019 05:03PM by Lot's Wife.

How many times do I have to tell you that the Jordan who posted here years ago is not me? By the way, "Jordan" is an unregistered name on here. I had a couple of other choices which turned out to be unavailable, so "Jordan" it was. I've never said where I live exactly and don't intend

On at least two occasions, I pointed out that it made no sense for me to have posted as Hwint on the same thread. I'm also unmarried and do not intend to be.

Thank you for calling me sick. Coming from you, I consider that a compliment. Tell me what's sick about not wanting to break up someone's marriage?

p.s. I can't be bothered discussing politics on this thread. I didn't derail it, you did.

> On at least two occasions, I pointed out that it
> made no sense for me to have posted as Hwint on
> the same thread.

Again, that is not a denial.

Why might he post as two people on a single thread? Perhaps because he wants it to appear that someone agrees with him. There are several examples of where Hwint has fulfilled that function.

Conclusive? No. But highly suggestive, both the similarities in writing and content and young Jordan's non-denial denial, his second in a few days.

You have a weird definition of what's not a denial. When I say it would make no sense to have posted under that username on that thread, not only am I denying it, but providing a reason why I wouldn't do it. Sorry, two clauses too many. One clause too many. Sorry.

p.s. You seem to have a lot of "cheerleaders" on here, who all have identical views. Maybe Queen Bee needs to check her own hive.

Dagny,

I believe Kori has been explicit about his having the two names. I think he's moved almost exclusively to SC.

Thanks. Kori posted today so I am not sure if he intends to remain a split personality. If so, maybe he will explain why.

For the sake of your relationship with your brother, I would avoid her. Even if he breaks up with her, I would consider her off-lmits.

Some potential mates are off-limits for a variety of reasons. This is not an unusual situation.

Great advice! Think with your brain not with your dick. You screw over your brother and he, as well as other family will never forgive you.

stillanon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Great advice! Think with your brain not with your
> dick. You screw over your brother and he, as well
> as other family will never forgive you.

Plus if she is paying too much attention to you, she might be a serial cuckolder. You might win her over and she'd do the same to you. Cuck not lest ye be cucked yourself.

> Plus if she is paying too much attention to you,
> she might be a serial cuckolder. You might win her
> over and she'd do the same to you. Cuck not lest
> ye be cucked yourself.

There it is again, the (in the context of talking to a young person) inordinately graphic language evincing what could be a collateral allusion to Jordan's own insecurities.

No one else has used that word. For good reason.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > Plus if she is paying too much attention to
> you,
> > she might be a serial cuckolder. You might win
> her
> > over and she'd do the same to you. Cuck not
> lest
> > ye be cucked yourself.
>
> There it is again, the (in the context of talking
> to a young person) inordinately graphic language

Cuck and cuckold are not graphic language... They are related to the word "cuckoo", a bird which likes to lay in other birds' nests.

> evincing what could be a collateral allusion to
> Jordan's own insecurities.

You betcha. But that's part of the romantic life for most people. It isn't actually a good thing to break up someone's marriage. I'm sure you have some line about bodies and choices, but spare us please.

> No one else has used that word. For good reason.

I don't often do this, but here is a dictionary link. Unfortunately it does make a false claim that "cuckold" is a gender based term, which doesn't apply most of the time.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cuckold

p.s. I apologize for using multiple clauses in my sentences. I'll try and stick to the reading level of the National Enquirer in future.

> Cuck and cuckold are not graphic language... They
> are related to the word "cuckoo", a bird which
> likes to lay in other birds' nests.

I know the origins of the word, so you needn't waste pixels explaining the obvious. It is, however, a curious word when used by anyone alive in the last 50 years and has arisen almost exclusively in pornography and conservative politics to the extent that those are different.


----------------------
> You betcha. But that's part of the romantic life
> for most people.

No, it is not. Your preoccupation is unusual to say the least.


----------
> It isn't actually a good thing to
> break up someone's marriage.

You don't say.


--------------
> I don't often do this, but here is a dictionary
> link. Unfortunately it does make a false claim
> that "cuckold" is a gender based term, which
> doesn't apply most of the time.
>
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cuckold

You really are clueless. The word means a man whose wife cheats on him; it has meant that for centuries. If you want to give it a modern spin, meaning women can do it to men and thereby revealing your tastes in pornography, go ahead. But the divergence isn't the fault of your dictionary: it is the result of your lack of lexicographical expertise and your intimate preoccupations.


--------------
> p.s. I apologize for using multiple clauses in my
> sentences. I'll try and stick to the reading level
> of the National Enquirer in future.

Hey, no worries. Meanwhile you can continue to use words like "inane," which you admitted looking up after I wrote it; and "tendentious," which after my employment you have begun sprinkling into your posts. Definitely SAT vocabulary, so it will stand you in good stead.

But if it assuages some of your anxieties, sure, let's say your writing style is as sophisticated as your understanding of Chinese philosophy, Orwell, the biology of race, Marxism, and Chinese economics. Will that make you feel better?

To liken conservative politics to pornography is outrageous, as are your continued ad hominem attacks against this other poster. Give it a rest, please.

I'm sorry you feel so timorous that you need to post anonymously. It is also curious that you feel I am being hard on Jordan given his constant attacks on me and others.

As for my assertion that there is a connection between conservative politics and the word "cuckold," which you term "outrageous," I suggest you do a little research. The recent combination of the political movement with that particular term is well documented and revealing.

Jordan's use of the word, his fixation on the topic, is entirely consistent with his politics. I'm sorry if that offends you.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/07/steve-bannons-total-cuck-move-explained/?utm_term=.7ee10f055304

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/29/cuckservative-the-conservative-insult-of-the-month-explained/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.de69de0b96b8

https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/2017/08/evolution-cuck-shows-different-far-right-groups-are-learning-same-language

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/13/cuckservative-republicans-conservatives-jeb-bush

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/201807/the-politics-cuckolding

https://www.gq.com/story/why-angry-white-men-love-calling-people-cucks

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/10/27/sexual-fantasies-republicans-democrats-politics-221919

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cuckservative



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2019 08:54PM by Lot's Wife.

I mean that given your reputational capital on this site, it’s sad to see you turn into a rabid dog at times like this. I thought you were better than that.

I hate to break this to you, but the word "cuckold" has never died out. "Cuck" is no more a swearword than "luck", "funk" or "flock", and I'm amuaed that you think it is. Yes, it has had a revival. But so has "snowflake" which was used in *positive* terms in my youth, and whose current usage originates on the left, not the right.

'Meanwhile you can continue to use words like "inane," which you admitted looking up after I wrote it; and "tendentious," which after my employment'

I have used these two words in a few posts, but I'm well aware of what both of them mean and have done for years.

And no, I don't get particularly turned on by the idea of my girlfriend being unfaithful. Not my bag, baby. The suggestion is pretty hypocritical considering you more or less accused me of being a pedophile above, despite the OP never stating openly s/he was a child.

p.s. I have denied being Hwint several times already. I'm wxpecting the rooster to crow any minute now. The only way I could shut you up about this would be by supplying IPs. And that ain't happening, at least in my case.

I note also that you have still not denied being Hwint. That is three times I have accused you of it, and you have never explicitly renounced it. You may do so now, but we all know what your lengthy reticence implies.

Do NOT make the first move. I repeat- do not come on to her. I can promise the humiliation you will experience if she refuses is not worth it. Let her make the first advance if that is what she has intentions of doing. What you do after that is up to you.

No! That's stupid advice. Don't let anybody make the first move. No way this ends well. His brother will never trust him again. He needs to find his own women. The kind of guy that would date his brother's girlfriend (or sleep with his wife) is the same kind of guy that would steal his parents Social Security checks. What is wrong with people?

stillanon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No! That's stupid advice. Don't let anybody make
> the first move. No way this ends well. His brother
> will never trust him again. He needs to find his
> own women. The kind of guy that would date his
> brother's girlfriend (or sleep with his wife) is
> the same kind of guy that would steal his parents
> Social Security checks. What is wrong with people?

All I said was to wait and let her make the first move, she may never and he is more than likely reading the entire situation wrong, thats why I said do not make a fool of yourself. If she did make the first move then the actions after that are on him. He is the one that has to live with his actions if he goes along with it.

Mormonism breeds this attitude into men. Any woman to smile at them and to treat them with any level of familiarity is automatically attractive. She's just a nice person and you need to get laid. By someone else, not her.

jacob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mormonism breeds this attitude into men. Any woman
> to smile at them and to treat them with any level
> of familiarity is automatically attractive. She's
> just a nice person and you need to get laid. By
> someone else, not her.

You don't need to be Mormon for that. I do know men who can be friendly with women, but some can't keep it in their pants. The difference with Mormonism, is that there is a lot less action before you tie the knot.

It's hard to make intelligent decisions when you lack basic information. So I think your first step is to plain old ask her why she invites you to do things with her. What are her intentions? Then explain how it's awkward for you.

Communication beats guessing, even when there's a risk you might get an answer you don't want.

If you're doing your best, it's not your responsibility if the girl 'thinks you're being rude'; that's her feelings which you're not in charge of!

I see two sort of stereotypical situations here (which may or may not apply to you):

First, since you use the word "crush" in the subject, I'll assume that you're relatively young. Many young men obsess about other guy's girlfriends, even to the point of making fools of themselves, and wrecking relationships and friendships. This sort of starts in middle and early high school, where every boy in school is obsessed with the same half-dozen girls. Later, many boys don't respect or recognize these boundaries, and cause all sorts of trouble. Learn to recognize boundaries, and don't cause trouble with your brother. Be the well-adjusted guy who realizes that there are lots of great girls out there.

Second, some girls who have more free time than their boyfriends do will kill time with his sidekick. If that's the case, then she's just killing time with you. Don't make a fool of yourself, and find a better way to spend your free time (you're not obligated to babysit his GF).

Are you a female? If so, leave her alone.

Not that there is anything wrong with it LMAO

AnonymousX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any advice?

Treat her like a human being and not an attraction.

> Have you been in a situation like
> this?

I've been in many situation were attraction was felt by me or another person for me. It is a part of life.

I assume you are young and when we are often we are the fools that rush into causing ourselves problems from our feelings.

Me o My, but the Board has changed...evolved, I should say.

Montana to Rice

Peace out....gaffer

I know what you mean. Sometimes RFM is more like Dear Abby.

Simple: BROS BEFORE HOES.

This thread is officially crazy. I need a snack.

Certain posters spend an awful lot of time as amateur moderators “policing” threads. At most forums I know this type of behavior is discouraged if not forbidden. Certainly the real moderators can see IP addresses and determine whether these are sock puppets or whatever. Do we really need nonmoderators beating up other posters about their identity? IIRC, there was a time when this volunteer vigilante’s ID was also not registered, and others were using it, so it shouldn’t be a big surprise when it happens to others.

So you are saying that someone is misappropriating the nickname "Jordan" and then posting erroneous things to embarrass the real Jordan?

No one has said that.

Fair point, but I see you also did not use your regular posting name and did not directly contact moderators instead.

The moderators do a fantastic job.

I don't see a big problem if we ask other posters if they have other names for clarification. They may or may not lie about it. Most are happy to provide clarification. If it becomes a problem, I'm sure multiple people will report. It's just confusing when some "coincidences" stand out.