Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 10:15AM

What would it take to topple the fruit basket of Mormondom?

Like, could it be as small an event as Dieter F. Uchtdorf flying a jetliner into the Conference Center, with the graffiti: KwitMormon.ORG emblazoned across both of its wings?

Or perhaps a rogue faction of the Twelve demanding that President Nelson take a televised lie detector test regarding church history and what he has read, believed and ceased believing?

Tell me, what do you think the actual strength and resiliency of Mormondom is at present?

I'd really like to know.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 10:43AM

Nothing will “topple” the (FKA) Mormon church. The days of rapid growth are long gone. It’s barely growing (if it’s growing at all), but it’s not going away anytime soon. There are still hundreds of thousands of people who are deeply committed and more than willing to ignore and/or spin evidence.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 10:47AM

Ok. So it will remain. I get it. But is it safe to remain a Mormon?

I mean, won't it become wholly ridiculous to stay in an expensive cult after so much obvious stuff renders that nearing insanity?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: CrispingPin ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 11:08AM

“But is it safe to remain a Mormon?”

What do you mean by “safe”? If following crazy religious teachings was dangerous, countless millions of people would be in peril right now.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 11:15AM

If so many choose to waste their life, perhaps I should waste mine, too.

What's wrong with this statement?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 11:32AM

When you say it to your mom, she bops you on the top of your head with a wooden spoon, that's what's wrong with that statement!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 11:44AM

Vern, I knew it was you.

Call me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: TX_Rancher ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 12:20PM

Of course the Mormons won't disappear. Even the Temple Lot people are still around after all these years. After the Luz del Mundo debacle in Mexico, where their leader was caught doing really bad things with female members (sound familiar?), their church hasn't collapsed. (Recently, an Uber driver joyously played their music during my ride down there.)

So, yes, some fanatics will stick around and remain for many years. But in addition to the "no growth" we are seeing, it's going to start declining fast...with an obvious trajectory downward. Far from the one true church and "fastest growing religion in the world" claim.

Will be fun to watch.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: abby ( )
Date: July 09, 2019 04:56PM

I agree. It's not going anywhere.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 12:25PM

A massive sex scandal involving people in the Quorum of the Twelve woth photographs/recordings. They may have gotten away with it in the past but not today.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 01:38PM

Photographs and recordings of 'members' of the Q-12/15 having sex...

I envy you your imagination...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 01:54PM

Vern, I know it's you. No one else saw mom bop me on the head with that wooden spoon but you. No one else was there except me, you and her.

Call me. Let's do lunch. Seriously.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 02:00PM

It's a right of passage, man! We are legion, those of us bopped on the top of the head!

It's always Mom, in the Kitchen, with the Wooden Spoon!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Screen Name ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 02:52PM

Vern, com'mon man. We're brothers. We haven't broke bread for decades. We have many lies to share. Call me.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 04:16PM

I'm an only child. Who has read a lot...

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: July 07, 2019 07:46PM

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Photographs and recordings of 'members' of the
> Q-12/15 having sex...
>
> I envy you your imagination...

Thankfully I didn't visualize the scenes in question. But it happens occasionally in politics.

It would have to be something extreme.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: July 06, 2019 12:59PM

Staying in becomes a cost vs benefit game!
Does the benefit offset the cost of membership?
This is a very personal self question

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: July 07, 2019 07:44PM

Well, it STINKS

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: July 07, 2019 10:11PM

The mormon version of Jeffrey Epstein and the "Lolita Express" occurring among some of the 12 and the 70s where they go to Molokai in the Hawaiian islands or some far off to Caribbean island for "business conference" with the spiritual highlight of "Church of God" like sex parties.

That could strike one of the foundation legs of the mormon tower.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: July 08, 2019 11:36AM

I think the lds church is loosing its strength. Many me members have been excommunicated or dis-fellowship. Church history is out in the open, even the church manuals have become less white washed.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: July 08, 2019 01:43PM

My church can beat up your church!

nu-uh...My church knows karate!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Old Al ( )
Date: July 08, 2019 02:59PM

Considering that only about 30% of the members attend on a weekly basis and a large number of them don’t pay tithing, not very strong at all. Its strength is an illusion broadcast by its leaders. They are even a waning power in the Intermountain West.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 09, 2019 04:52PM

Any organization is as strong as its weakest link.

What is its weakest link? It has quite a few!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 09, 2019 04:56PM

> Posted by: Amyjo ( )
> Date: July 09, 2019 12:52PM
> Re: How strong is the LDS church?
>
>Any organization is as strong as its weakest link.
>
>What is its weakest link? It has quite a few!



An organization is not a chain.

Every organization has weak individuals. But in an organization, it's the strong individuals who count.

Totally different than a chain, where yes, it's only as strong as the weakest link.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2019 04:57PM by elderolddog.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: July 09, 2019 05:28PM

How's this....

Any organization is as strong as its greatest leader.

Who is its greatest leader? It has none!

Now I suppose you could call the GA's a "chain of fools" and the other analogy might be appropriate.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 09, 2019 05:28PM

People are fallible. The strength of the Mormon church depends on the appearance of infallibility of its leaders. The organization is made up of people. In Mormonism it has been compared to the Politburo, likened to former Communist USSR (see Steve Benson's writings on his Grandfather's tenure as president during his time in office.)

There are many weak links in the organization of Mormonism. The image it tries to portray of being infallible and perfect in its patriarchal order and "Groupthink" mentality of the GA and Q12 are but a couple of the weak links that lead to disaffection of the members and ultimately, questioning and people finding their way out as they figure out that TSCC is not what it represents itself to be.


When the Q12 and presidency makes decisions it passes down and says "Don't doubt your doubts, trust us," because "The thinking has been done." That is a weak link in the organizational structure. That is a dictum that cannot hold water because it doesn't withstand scrutiny and belies the ability to trust the church leaders. Only a cult would make dictums and mantras for its members to follow. It has to have sheeple in order to maintain order. And that is a weak link for the cult when the only dependable people are the ones who don't think for themselves, and the ones who do stand up and speak out.

Those people will continue to walk when the time comes as their voices become heard. They will become forces to reckon with, and they are more "weak" links the cult will face as it comes to terms with its false teachings as more of its members fall away.

Bishops and stake leaders have left TSCC. Those are the ones the cult fears more because they were the stronger leaders when they were in the cult. They are weak links waiting in the wings, like some predecessors have before them. Quite a few of these people have spoken at the ex-Mormon conferences as guest speakers.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 10, 2019 01:56AM

A+

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: July 10, 2019 02:03AM

I think it's falling apart quietly, one apostate at a time. People take notice when good members suddenly stop attending. Younger people are defecting and they are not bringing their babies back to be blessed unless the grandparents are pushy.

I still think that the church is going to begrudgingly change its structure to be more inclusive of women, singles and even gays.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Red ( )
Date: July 10, 2019 02:34AM

I can't believe I'm saying this because I'm not, generally, overly optimistic. But: I think what we've seen in the last 10-20 years is the beginning of the end of the Church. Oh, the POS institution will likely still be around, in some form or another, a century from now when we are all dead, but nothing like now. The rapid growth day are *long* gone, even before the Hinkster (that sack of crap) shuffled off.

More importantly, the Internet has exposed the batsh*t crazy, and obviously fraudulent, history of the "church". It wasn't all that long ago, say the 1980s and early 1990s, that if one was questioning it would require reading (gasp!) anti-literature, which was hard to find in some parts. Now, a few keystrokes and mouse-clicks, boom, everything you are seeking is right there. And it is so obvious to anyone with an even remotely critical eye.

So, I think Morg is dying, and at a pace I've never seen before. Not fast enough, of course, but it is a goner eventually. It will likely fall apart at a faster rate than the other religions, for the obvious reasons. It won't be completely gone before I, or most reading this, are gone. But it is going to be hilarious to watch the slow motion implosion. :D

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Eric3 ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 01:24PM

My perception as a nevermo: growth is zero to negative; those who remain often do so for family not belief; sure, there will always be some TBM but they're increasingly the exception. Church management has figured this out and is not happy about it, which is why they're trying rebranding etc.

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **    **        **  **        **    **        ** 
  **  **         **  **        ***   **        ** 
   ****          **  **        ****  **        ** 
    **           **  **        ** ** **        ** 
    **     **    **  **        **  ****  **    ** 
    **     **    **  **        **   ***  **    ** 
    **      ******   ********  **    **   ******