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Posted by: Wowza ( )
Date: July 08, 2019 04:34AM

They love the phrase endure to the end as if the journey is going to suck invariably.

They love that their meetings are boring and that callings without training are difficult, serving should be suffering.

They love that they impose cheap highly controlled missions on young people so that they can suffer at the hands of the cruel world outside of their mormon bubble.

They love that women have too many kids and must always be beholden to their husband... building up a sense of powerlessness and resentment.


They love that they push a single income household on a big family and then take ten percent of that so that the family as a whole suffers financially.

Its part of the appeal. So that mormons can feel like they are earning something. They are working hard to get their piece of the pie. Surely God can't say "no". I mean, look how much they suffered for it!?!

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Posted by: Jordan ( )
Date: July 08, 2019 08:13AM

Most people go along for community IMHO.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 10, 2019 01:38PM

Did you just blanket drop a diss on all Mormons? I think you did. No significant number of sincere believers eh?

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: July 08, 2019 09:24PM


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Posted by: laperla not logged in ( )
Date: July 08, 2019 10:43PM

In our family relaxation is a private thing. Something to do alone, out of sight of the group. No achievement in being relaxed.

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Posted by: macaRomney ( )
Date: July 08, 2019 10:50PM

They send missionaries who are completely unqualified to do what they are doing out into a world that is going to eat them alive. And not because this church is poor, or without ability to train them right, There is plenty of money to be spent getting these kids a real seminary education where they have actually read some theology, studied the bible thoroughly, and got some psychological training like the protestants do for their pastors.

As a missionary I had 5 companions who had never read the book of mormon and couldn't tell you what it was about. They had never picked up the bible, and were basically illiterate. It was so embarrassing when a person on the street would tell us "go home and when you get your story straight come back and tell me about it."

But did the mormon GA's give a damn what was happening? They couldn't care less about the image of the church. Things maybe are different now. But We missionaries of former times deserve an apology!

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: July 09, 2019 08:15PM

You nailed it, Wowza! God OWES them blessings, because of their suffering.

Laperla, you are right about relaxation. I relaxed, played, and had fun with my grandchildren in the back yard, last weekend, but I found myself telling my TBM relatives that I "babysat, fixed meals, and took care of the kids all weekend, so their parents could go on a trip."

My Mormon in-laws don't just hike or jog--they hike to the top of Mt. Olympus, or run a 10-K, and they give you the times, mileage, and altitude. Have you ever heard an adult Mormon answer, "Nothing." to the question, "What did you do on Saturday?"

Even better, is to do something to serve the cult It could have said, "...and I fellowshipped the non-Mormon neighbor's little kids", or the in-laws could have said a prayer at the summit, or donated a penny for each mile, or something like that.

Do do something just for the joy of it, or to rest and enjoy the reverie of the moment, is unheard-of, for Mormons. Everything must have a goal or ulterior motive.

So many of my friends, when they first leave the cult, ask, "What is my purpose NOW?" The cult accepts no illnesses, no excuses, no vacations, no sick leave, no retirement.

I'm so happy to be free!

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: July 09, 2019 08:30PM

Meditation is a dirty word, to Mormons. So is relaxation.

I would help my father pick peaches in our orchard all day, and then the two of us would sit in the shade to rest, talk, and enjoy the cool evening breeze, and to admire and sniff the fresh peaches in the crates. My TBM mother would yell out the window, "Why are you just sitting there doing nothing?" I would go sit somewhere else, out of view, but my dad would get back to work.

In the good old days, a couple of years ago, when the Mormon church had pageants, many of our Mormon neighbors would go to church history sites for their family vacations. This gained the admiration of their Mormon peers. The older Mormon couples in our neighborhood like to brag about how many temples they have visited, all over the world.

A friend of mine went to Rome, recently--but she made a big deal out of the fact that she went to Rome for the temple dedication! Ya gotta suffer, and also, in this case, pay a lot of money!

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Posted by: cl2 ( )
Date: July 09, 2019 08:39PM

They tell you if you do everything correctly that you will be blessed. My PB told me that I would not be called upon to suffer unduly at any time.

I wanted to make sure I didn't suffer. I knew I wouldn't handle it well. I see my daughter doing the same thing. I worked harder than anyone in my family. When my life fell apart, the whole family was in shock--Not Colleen! was the attitude.

So I left and I no longer "suffer." I have problems, but I'm not suffering like I used to as a mormon. No matter how hard you try, no matter how many prayers you say, no matter how many times you fast, or how many callings you hold, how much tithing you pay, NOTHING makes a gay man straight. I know. It is so so so so nice to be able to accept him AS HE IS. To allow him to live his life as he sees fit. I always saw his value. We suffered unnecessarily and that is unacceptable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2019 08:40PM by cl2.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: July 11, 2019 03:00PM

Is 't the basic function of religion to make people feel like the hard work and suffering in life have a purpose beyond survival?

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Posted by: Wowza ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 03:10AM

I think this is very true. Many religions and maybe all religions to a certain extent try to frame the suffering of the world as being worth something in the end.

I think one difference with Mormonism is that the church causes a lot of needless suffering and actually encourages suffering for the sake of their own organization.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 03:41AM

Pain is attractive to people.

That's true of those who have had troubled childhoods and are used to feeling inadequate or who desperately want to reconcile with unavailable parents or a substitute for those parents. Those factors can lead people to marry badly, and it can incline them to join harmful political and religious movements. Once admitted to such a movement, the constant criticism, the sense of inadequacy, and the endless tasks that must be performed to prove one's goodness replicate the emotions of the earlier family dynamics and hence feel "comfortable" in a sick sort of way.

It's true as well of healthy individuals although in a different way. We all know that the more people invest in a project or group, the harder it is to walk away because doing so means that the invested time and money and love were wasted. Wittingly or not, the church has evolved a system that plays on this psychological tendency with great effectiveness. Once a person has served a mission, married in the temple, and reared her children in the faith, the emotional cost of leaving becomes huge.

These mechanisms undoubtedly motivate people to do a lot of stupid things. But the LDS church is probably exceptionally good at exploiting the human attraction to sacrifice and suffering as a means of generating loyalty. It takes a lot of healing, a lot of courage, and a willingness to bear a different and healthier sort of pain to leave such an organization.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:14AM

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wittingly or not, the church has evolved a system
> that plays on this psychological tendency with
> great effectiveness. Once a person has served a
> mission, married in the temple, and reared her
> children in the faith, the emotional cost of
> leaving becomes huge.

I will invoke social Darwinism. The Mormon Church would have died with Joseph Smith if it hadn't evolved with time. Mormonism is predatory. It is a hawk religion but dove religions can be just as evolutionarily successful in my opinion.

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 10:44AM

Boy, what an eye opening thread!

Every story resonated with me. Thanks for the insight!

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:05AM

I think there's a lot of truth to this. Sacrifice is a huge part of the LDS doctrine.

I remember when I finished my mission, I had my Mission Pres interview. I had had a truly horrible mission. Terrible companions, only a couple baptisms (and I wasn't even very proud of those, one was a kid I wasn't even sure was eight, but my Senior, Native, serving as Branch Pres, Companion pushed the kid through and I had little option) and all kinds of other problems even though I was trying to do my best as a good little TBM Missionary.

The Mission Pres barely said, "Your sacrifice was worth it!" for his opening statement and I broke down in tears, as I took it as validation that that the last 2 years weren't wasted (they really were). He didn't know what to do with me after that and so sent me on my way. My family happened to be there because they wanted to see the country and the office missionaries told them to get comfortable as it would be a while. When I popped out a minute after going in, they said they'd never seen an interview go so fast.

Hard work and suffering, with a side order of guilt was what I was taught from the start.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:16AM

Finally Free! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hard work and suffering, with a side order of
> guilt was what I was taught from the start.

And a sweet spirit of shaming for dessert. You didn't do enough so repent and feel self-righteous in your humility before God.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:26AM

"And a sweet spirit of shaming for dessert."

Like a pie shoved in the face.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:28AM

Celestial Cheese Cake.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:18AM

My mission was a disaster, too, and not just for me. The church ended up replacing some senior people before the end of their terms as a result of the way the mission was mismanaged but, of course, SLC neither acknowledged any problems nor offered support to the missionaries who were most badly hurt.

So I understand, and empathize with, what you express.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:25AM

Yikes! That sounds terrible! And of course there was no support for people, they would have had to acknowledge the problem to do that.

Sorry you had to deal with that. I look forward to the day when kids aren't sent out on missions anymore. I know it may be a while, but I think it'll happen.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:26AM

Finally Free! Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know it may be a while, but I think
> it'll happen.

I totally disagree. Like lowering the age to interview the push for more missionaries is alive and well.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:28AM

I hold on to hope, I can be naive in my optimism sometimes.

I fear you are right, the missionary program is how the church creates a strangle hold on so many young members. I still hope that, someday, it will become unpopular enough for it to be canceled. Though whatever they replace it with will likely be just as bad.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:30AM

Missionary service is huge. I should start another thread on my observation.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: July 12, 2019 11:34AM

This relates back to the thread on pain and suffering. It is hard to conceive of the LDS church not maintaining some form of the missionary program because that is another one of the chains they use to bind members.

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