Anyone here read "Confessions of a Sociopath"? The author is LDS and actually discusses the chameleonic behavior she used in Mormonism and elsewhere.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/201305/confessions-sociopath

I was not a victim of child abuse, and I am not a murderer or a criminal. I have never skulked behind prison walls; I prefer mine to be covered in ivy. I am an accomplished attorney and law professor, a well-respected young academic who regularly writes for law journals and advances legal theories. I donate 10 percentof my income to charity and teach Sunday school for the Mormon Church. I have a close circle of family and friends whom I love and who very much love me. Does this sound like you? Recent estimates say that one in every 25 people is a sociopath. But you're not a serial killer, never imprisoned? Most of us aren't. Only 20 percent of male and female prison inmates are sociopathsalthough we are probably responsible for about half of all serious crimes committed. Nor are most sociopaths incarcerated. In fact, the silent majority of sociopaths live freely and anonymously, holding down jobs, getting married, having children. We are legion and diverse...

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a sociopath's dream. Mormons believe that everyone has the potential to be godlike—I believe this includes me. Every being is capable of salvation; my actions are what matters, not my ruthless thoughts, not my nefarious motivations. Everyone is a sinner, and I never felt that I was outside this norm.

When I attended Brigham Young—where students were even more trusting than the average Mormon—there were myriad opportunities for scamming. I stole from the lost and found, saying I lost a book, but then I would take the "found" book to the bookstore and sell it. Or, I'd take an unlocked bike that sat in the same place for days. Finders, keepers.

This woman is a time bomb waiting to happen. I saw her on a talk show brag about her psychosis. She was wearing a disguise, and at the time, taught law at BYU. I’m sure they figured out who she was and got rid of her.

One day this psycho is going to end up in prison. She has murderous fantasies. She’s a destroyer by her own admission.

She seems to have outed herself comprehensively and made herself unemployable. She has a fairly disturbing blog called Sociopathworld.

I know there's a few of these people around, but hopefully not too many really clever or violent ones.

oldpobot Wrote:
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> She seems to have outed herself comprehensively
> and made herself unemployable. She has a fairly
> disturbing blog called Sociopathworld.
>
> I know there's a few of these people around, but
> hopefully not too many really clever or violent
> ones.

There are probably more than we realize and the cleverer ones are no doubt better at camouflage. Scary thought I know. The flipside is that the cleverer ones will also realize violence is not a viable option in most instances, although they will do a lot of harm along the way. In a handful of instances, they may actually do good as well, if they think they can benefit themselves.

As I have said below - the key point here is that this is a medical condition, a deficiency, if you will. How much free will these people have is debatable. She has done a lot of bad things. I believe she could havw done worse. She does have some level of self-awareness, although perhaps not enough.

Raptero Wrote:
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> This woman is a time bomb waiting to happen. I
> saw her on a talk show brag about her psychosis.
> She was wearing a disguise, and at the time,
> taught law at BYU. I’m sure they figured out
> who she was and got rid of her.
>
> One day this psycho is going to end up in prison.
> She has murderous fantasies. She’s a destroyer
> by her own admission.

Someone once said that if we knew the contents of each other's minds, we'd all be horrified at them. But there is a big difference between fantasizing about something and actually doing it.

I don't believe she is anymore evil than many of those who run our society or infiltrate organizations, She has admitted to her impulses, which is more than can be said for some of them. In some senses she is doing a service (although I believe there are quibbles about her diagnosis in some parts of the internet). Crucifying her for writing about her impulses, and worldview, is also wrong IMHO.

The book however, despite its openness on some levels, is still self-serving to some degree. While it humanizes this issue, it also probably omits certain things and gives a one-sided view of them. But she is no different to most memoir writers in that sense.

I'm enamored of the notion that every human being, at birth, is a sociopath.

No, every human being at birth is a sucker, not a sociopath.

Every human being at birth is a human being. Not everyone is guaranteed safe passage through that canal but if they make it they are human which is amazing.

I agree wholeheartedly there.

However, most people are not born sociopaths.

Sociopaths do a lot of deflecting blame onto others so to not draw attention to themselves. It's part of their victimizing and manipulation. They think they're smarter than everyone else, only eventually people see through them and call their bluff.

That's what happened with Mark Hofmann, when he went from being a con man to murderer. Christensen was in the process of learning the Salamander Letter was a forgery, so is why Hofmann decided to murder him because he didn't want his lifestyle to become hindered. Publicity is a con man's worst fear, is being exposed for the fraud/s that they are.

Law enforcement people who prosecuted Hofmann said of him that he was always a murderer. It was just waiting to happen, because of his being a sociopath all the elements were there from the beginning. He was/is stone cold no matter what crime he was perpetrating. Yet he fooled a lot of people in the Mormon church being the good little Mormon boy up until then.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2019 12:29PM by Amyjo.

Here's a standard definition of a sociopath:

"a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience."

--https://www.google.com/search?q=sociopath&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS815US815&oq=Sociopath&aqs=chrome.0.0j69i61j0l4.4683j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


I submit to you that this describes Homo Sapiens Sapiens from birth to about two years and eight months. It's a good thing they (mostly) don't have access to weapons.

There are a lot of people in the Mormon church like her, or near like her I would describe as Borderline Personalities.

How she can be so flippant about her success as a non-criminal sociopath is more evidence of her sociopathy.

And her brazenness. She has no moral conscience. Why she chose to be a Mormon without a conscience? It's a gold mine for trusting victims.

Predators prey on them.

My uncle, a never Mo who grew up in Utah, educated at Berkeley, Master's degree in Mechanical Engineering is a sociopath and a con artist. He has no conscience or moral backbone.

He was raised a Christian growing up, then threw out his Christian teachings along with the bible, and his belief in God before he re-invented himself into a con artist.

He has become a stranger to me now. He was a man I once revered. I no longer trust him or admire him, nor respect him.

His wife has turned into an alcoholic over the years of their long marriage. From years of social drinking, and keeping up appearances in their high end home, high end neighborhood. Expensive sports cars, exotic vacations, he drove himself to commit bank heists when he could no longer make the big bucks he and his wife were used to living on in Silicon Valley where they've spent the majority of their lives.

He has patents for microchips and computer inventions. He's been a computer consultant and an expert witness. All that I suppose to fool my aunt when he's traveled the world going on "business trips" to commit his bank heists. He comes home with tens of thousands of dollars they spend so they don't have to report it on their tax returns, and their friends think he's still the savvy engineer when all these years he's just been a liar and a cheat.

The heist he committed in my area was the only time he was identified to the police when my children and I recognized him from Crimestoppers. No one else in our 2,000,000 metro area knew who he was. The cops told me it was only the tip of the iceberg and that he'd been doing it a long time. The same cops who interviewed my uncle in his home office where he lives were the same cops who gave my aunt a parade on her birthday each year in their community for her contributions to their hometown.

His supposed 'airtight' alibi (he left no paper trail, or fingerprints,) of his identity to the bank heist where we live, kept him from getting arrested. So he was spared that humiliation. He is still cocky and the same arrogant S.O.B. he was back then since he's gotten away with it. Now he's a sales consultant for Apple Computers. He still has his hands in the piggy bank.

The cops asked me how did he get access to our local area customers bank accounts? I told them I had no idea other than his ability to get inside people's computers because that is what he knew how to do as a computer expert. My aunt used to tell me she called herself a computer widow. Because she is/was.

I've cut off all ties to them since. But he hasn't left my children alone despite me ordering him to have no more contact with them.

He is a pariah, and a sociopath.

Has he killed anyone? Not to my knowledge. Most sociopaths who are con artists don't cross over and become violent. But some do. I wouldn't trust him regardless. He is still a fugitive criminal felon from the law and will be to the day he dies.

You should use quotation marks to indicate more clearly that the OP consists entirely of an excerpt from this woman's book, not written by, or referencing, yourself, Jordan.

I couldn't tell at first that those paragraphs were direct quotes and thought maybe some were written by you about yourself.

Honestly, not being snarky - that's what I thought at first. I had to read through the OP twice to get the sense of it and realize the entire passage is from the book.

Pretty silent with your opinions on this Jordan which is not true to your form. What are you fishing for here?

He's trying to throw in some posts about Mormonism now and then to try to dilute his usual agenda, IMO.

That's exactly right.

dagny Wrote:
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> He's trying to throw in some posts about Mormonism
> now and then to try to dilute his usual agenda,
> IMO.

Clearly I never write about Mormonism on here enough. Maybe you should stick to the literary abominatiins of Ayn Rand.

Here's just a few topics I started about the LDS. Some others have been deleted.

The Pizza Problem
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2221829,2221829#msg-2221829

Throat Slitting and the passage of time
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2223362,2223362#msg-2223362

Just bought a copy of Oahspe
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2223227,2223227#msg-2223227

Autistic people in the church
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2225810,2225810#msg-2225810

Attending Jehovah's Witnesses
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2227271,2227271#msg-2227271

Are most Mormons LARPING?
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2229805,2229805#msg-2229805

Elder Berry Wrote:
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> Pretty silent with your opinions on this Jordan
> which is not true to your form. What are you
> fishing for here?


I figured he would defend this sociopath, and he did. IMHO, I think he brought this up so he could defend this woman in her wrongdoing and once again, piss people off. For him, mission accomplished.

Sounds about right.

His list of topics he started that were supposedly "on topic" in being related to Mormonism were tangentially related.

"Here's just a few topics I started about the LDS. Some others have been deleted."

I guess his deleted ones were more engaging and enlightening. Too bad they got deleted.

Look up 'agitprop' and then remove the stain of its origin and just concentrate on how it works...

Now look at the entire list of threads authored by Jordan McFester. With this current thread, they total 32. Not a large number for a single poster... But again, think 'agitprop':


Priest & school teacher attempt to ‘sacrifice’ 3yo girl
--July 07

OT Man has life support accidentally cut off by wrong family
--July 05

Amish families who became Mormon
--July 04

When temples become a liability
--July 04

Stakeholder (sic) as an RC friend calls them
--July 02

Inverted pentagrams on temples
--July 01

Sheikh's 3rd plural wife flees Dubai
--June 29

What if JS wasn't murdered?
--June 28

OT: Unicorn Sightings
--June 26

Pentecostal Mormonism
--June 24

20,000 sign petition to cancel 'satanic' TV show 'Good Omens'.
--June 21

Why Porter Rockwell Once Cut His Hair
--June 20

Fast offerings and MLMs
--June 17 (this one started with, "We've discussed pyramid schemes here before and their relationship to church membership." At this point JMcF had been here roughly 45 days and in that interim, I didn't find a thread along the lines of MLMs. So who was the "we" in that first sentence?)

Never mind speed dating, how about speed wedding?
--June 13

Trouble ahead for Hong Kong LDS
--June 10

Ten Practical Ways the Church Shoots Itself in the Foot
--June 07

OT: D Day 75
--June 06

This time it's Latin America
--June 03

Are most Mormons "LARPing"?
--June 02

Are LDS scriptures copyrighted?
--May 29

OT: Scientists confirm they can put voices into your head
--May 28

Attending Jehovah's Witnesses
--May 26

Pope Michael - the documentary
--May 23

Autistic people in the church
--May 21

RMN meets exmo NZ PM Jacinda Ardennes
--May 20

OT: Ex-Ohio State football players among those abused
-- May 19

Reformed MS decoded after centuries
--May 16

Just bought a copy of Oahspe
--May 13

Throat slitting and passage of time
--May 13

OT: New Japanese Emperor
--May 02

NXIVM
--May 02



"We've got a friend in Jordan."

The threads on the Amish, speed marriage and thr Voynich MS were really "agitprop"? The answer is no, and nor is this one. You and your conjoined twin did see fit to derail a couple though as you are attempting to with this one.

It's not a question of accepting your answer, but rather accepting the answer given by the judges.

Life has its up and it has its downs...


You never did respond to my question about how long you usually last in each new online community...

It's weird, huh? Time after time the community turns out to be composed of slack-jawed dullards who simply can't figure out that worshipping the screen you type on should be their (our) natural order.

EOD, you are undercounting.

Jordan's "contribution" would be larger if you included the threads that have been expunged and the posts issued by his various alter egos. He has, in fact, achieved quite a presence in such a short period of time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2019 08:15PM by Lot's Wife.

Yeah, well, if I was paid more than minimum wage I might try harder!

Were.

As one of the two most annoying grammarians on the website, I could not resist doing that to the other.

I deserved it...

Saucie is going to make me do the Samba of Shame, the entire 13 minutes of it, in full, humiliating costume. The headdress alone is sooo mortifying...

I got my hazmat suit on, so let's get back to the spit show!

Okay, okay. EOD is one of the THREE most annoying grammarians on the website.

Satisfied?

[edit] That all depends. You two may be one and the same, so then there are only two of us grammar Nazis, right? Or are you a pair of schizophrenic personae inhabiting one person? Worse yet, you might be one person hosting a demonic entity? Jordanaire might agree with me on that. But who's the host, and who's the entity?

My soul cringes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2019 08:57PM by caffiend.

How is asking if most Mormons are LARPing tangential? It's central to the whole culture and practise of the religion and not tangential at all.

Once or twice I've tried to discuss my everyday experience of Mormonism on here, and been sneered at or accused of never having been involved in it at all, or being a Russian bot. Yeah, really helpful... So I tend to steer onto more general topics, or ones that I haven't seen discussed before. (It turns out this one has, but no matter. People have even claimed I'm defending this woman's behavior when in fact I'm trying to be even-handed about what is effectively a medical condition with detrimental results.)

Aquarius123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Elder Berry Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pretty silent with your opinions on this Jordan
> > which is not true to your form. What are you
> > fishing for here?
>
>
> I figured he would defend this sociopath, and he
> did. IMHO, I think he brought this up so he could
> defend this woman in her wrongdoing and once
> again, piss people off. For him, mission
> accomplished.

Being a sociopath is a MEDICAL condition, therefore how much of it is a matter of choice/free agency is moot. Please bear that in mind. How much of this is true wrongdoing and how much is a neurological issue? The obvious answer here IMHO, is a medical issue should be treated as a medical issue, i.e. with treatment, although I gather treatment for the condition doesn't achieve much yet.

If you read this thread properly, you'll see I'm even handed. I say that I think her account is self-serving, and I also oppose a witchhunt against her. When she is doing nothing wrong then she deserves no punishment. If she does something wrong then obviously she does deserve punishment... However, she does have a neurological deficiency, as I state in the last paragraph.

Would I date someone I knew to be a sociopath? Well, I believe I have run into such a person in the past. She was very beautiful, but ultimately a horrible person who went on to destroy her husband and probably her children. The attraction for me would be purely physical and I would be scared of getting emotionally involved with such a person.

This is normal for LDS membership. Always lying and pretending to be something you're not.

I actually see a lot of the same behavior here at RFM.

Isn't that the truth!

I'm surprised we are going through this again. There have been four or five threads on Jamie Lund.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> I'm surprised we are going through this again.
> There have been four or five threads on Jamie
> Lund.

Not seen them. Thanks for the contribution mavourneen.

It doesn't surprise me that you have not seen them. You are not someone who feels the need to understand a topic before opining on it.

And I am not your darling. I realize that some men like to use such words to demean women, but everyone would be better off if your manhood were strong enough that you could defend your views with logic rather than falling into the boorish habits of earlier generations of insecure men.

So THAT'S who stole my prized bicycle at BYU!

Curses on her!

Who wants to know a sociopath's own story--it will be full of lies! Who needs her opinion or advice--it is skewed. She's screwy enough to think we would CHOOSE, knowingly, to do business with a sociopath, or have her represent us, or give her the time of day.

I have been abused and conned by too many sociopaths and psychopaths. I'm done.

(Not a fan of Jordan, either.)

exminion Wrote:
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> So THAT'S who stole my prized bicycle at BYU!
>
> Curses on her!

:D

> Who wants to know a sociopath's own story--it will
> be full of lies! Who needs her opinion or
> advice--it is skewed. She's screwy enough to
> think we would CHOOSE, knowingly, to do business
> with a sociopath, or have her represent us, or
> give her the time of day.

Speaking for myself, it is always interesting to get a window into someone else's head, particularly when they discuss things which are taboo (and that list grows by the say, thanks to the current authoritarian creep of western society).

I agree, the account is self-serving, but one can read between the lines. It is my contention that such people are less far removed from the rest of us than we'd like to think. We all know the guys 'n' gals who can shoot us a fake smile, cruise through job interviews on sheer lies, or who drop us as friends at the first sign of trouble... I'm sure you do.

Would I do business with someone I knew was a sociopath? It depends on the circumstance. If I thought s/he was going to exploit me, or get me into trouble with the law, then no. If I thought they would bring harm to innocent people, then no again. But there are circumstances they are useful and strangely enough, law would be one of them. If I had to go to court, and get a lawyer, would I go for someone who was persuasive and convincing, or someone who wasn't (despite their intelligence and legal knowledge)? I think you know the answer. And sociopaths can be persuasive. I'd want to win my case. Such people also make great salesmen.

I couldn't finish reading her babble. She is a grand manipulator who blames everyone else, but herself for falling victim to her schemes and crimes. She blamed her parents for being negligient for her inability to make and keep friends (hmm, it's called a two-way street for a reason and not it's all about me all the time).

How did she become a member?

I am a dubious that she was raised in the church. Her opening remarks about a father that couldn't keep up his breadwinner due to her demands as a snotty never pleased child has me wondering if she was a member of the church. She blamed him for sending her to school with her backyard oranges while he frittered away his money on his "hobbies". I only point out this detail because very few parents have money leftover after paying TITHING and other church demands~ fast offerings, scouting, building donations, girls camp, missionary fund; etc.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2019 09:08PM by messygoop.

Messygoop, you make some excellent points. But she did strike me as someone with an LDS family background. In fact, while I was reading the book I picked up that she was LDS very early on, before she stated it (if I recall correctly). So she does have some very Mormon traits to her.

Stylistically the book had some annoying features. But it did suck me in. I'm always curious about what really goes on in others' minds - I only occasionally get glimpses in there. And this person is atypical.

Some people on here think I have defended her. Not quite. I see her as manipulative but also the victim of a psychological deficiency. I think she would have done well to disguise her identity more.

Being a sociopath she never really learned the difference between right and wrong, choosing the right, or having a moral conscience. So she flunked every class she ever took on the Golden Rule 101.

She may have faked her way through life, but she's still a psychopath at the end of the day. They don't have real friends because they aren't a real friend. They use people. That is all they know how to do is manipulate others to achieve their goals.

For a sociopath, the ends justify the means at whatever cost.

Amyjo Wrote:
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> Being a sociopath she never really learned the
> difference between right and wrong, choosing the
> right, or having a moral conscience. So she
> flunked every class she ever took on the Golden
> Rule 101.

Yes, I agree up to a point. But I suspect she also knows that there are certain things you can't do, becauss there are negative consequences to you. So purely from the angles of self-interest and self-preservation, there are some deterrents to doing wrong. If you steal continually, you will get caught and will lose face, for example.

One can "choose the right" for the wrong reasons.

There was a Mormon woman featured on Hoarders series, who lives in southern Idaho. She's an older lady, who is an active LDS woman and seemingly knows right from wrong.

Yet besides her hoarding she is a compulsive thief. She steals much of her hoard not only from the local stores where she shoplifts it. She steals from her own children and family when she goes to visit them. They've become so distrustful of her they no longer want her to come over. She takes things that don't belong to her and adds it to her hoard.

Sick. It's compulsive behavior on top of compulsive behavior.

I'm surprised she hasn't been arrested for shoplifting where she lives. Spending a few nights in jail might do her good.

Every thing you say triggers my gag reflex..

saucie Wrote:
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> Every thing you say triggers my gag reflex..

Then how do you propose dealing with sociopaths better? (Bearing in mind this is a psychological illness as much as a moral/criminal choice.)

Watch out for the green vomit! Megan's head is doing a 380.