First and foremost, I would like to thank those that have helped me in my recovery. I was here for a little over four years and I found RFM to be fantastic. Would you believe that I didn't that I was in need of recovery from the church until I read the many stories and experiences of others? That's when it kicked in that I still carry a lot of baggage of being a Mormon. I believe that I am still in need of support, but I am going to search for it somewhere else.

It's not my website, but this place has become repugnant from previous visits. It is my opinion that there are very few former mormons posting here on a regular basis. By far there are way too many trolls and sociopaths that are posting here for their own kicks. I really wish that some of you would go somewhere else to debate politics and philosophies. It's not helping those who are/were actual members of the church find a new path to a brighter future.

And yes, I read through 2,500+ posts of a particular poster to only realize that he/she likely has never been directly involved with the church as a member. But hey, that person will stay and continue posting nonsense and I will be on my merry way.

I skim past all those posts. They do get irritating.

I agree. It seems that for some people (who post often and respond to almost every post) “recovery from mormonism” is an afterthought-on those rare occasions they think about mormonism at all.

+1

I, too, found this board to be extremely valuable in the past--especially when I was still in the mormon church finding my way out and shortly after leaving. But there is now so much clutter by what I call the "professional posters" that it's sometimes hard find the really valuable stuff. The good stuff is still here, but it often (usually) gets buried.

I left Mormonism in 2012, thanks to lurking on this board. I don't post on here often (I don't post on forums a lot and I sound like an idiot when I do), but I feel like I have a bit of an obligation to this board.

And why I stupidly replied to one of those trolls. I got sick of it trying to trash the board, but I may have just helped make the board worse for everyone in the process.

I'm sorry, messygoop. I hope you lose the baggage from Mormonism and find your brighter future.

That's interesting that you mention that, because for every lurker that comes "out of the closet," there are likely a thousand or more lurkers "in the closet" that are reading but too afraid to make themselves known because of their families finding out.

It makes me hopeful that some of my nieces and nephews are "lurking" here.

I will miss you if you go, Messy.

I agree. It hurts your recovery and mine.

I came to RfM in 2015, and am so thankful to have this little piece of sanctuary on the Internet to vent when there is no other place where one can go where people really relate to having been an ex-Mormon. Or the issues that arise with our TBM family. I resigned in 2005, but it took me awhile to find this place because I was so busy raising my family, working two jobs and going to graduate school. I didn't have much time left over to surf the net for many years.

TSCC does so much damage to family relations. I didn't even think there was a place to go where there might be others who had been through the same stuff as I had been, until finding RfM online.

My friends and co-workers where I live aren't ex-Mormons. There aren't too many people who relate to having been born and raised inside a cult.

It makes it harder to be here when there are toxic people who want to mess with people and be hateful.

But I don't let them deter me either from helping others who really need help or for sharing my own experiences of having been a Mormon and what I've learned along the way.

And for the non Mormons who found their way here, like Tevai, Summer and others, RfM is meant to be welcoming to them too. Speaking of which, where is Kativicky? I miss your Sunday posts! :)

Thanks again to Eric K, Concrete Zipper, Maude, and Tevai, et al, for making this place happen. And for the positive, or otherwise encouraging posters who are there for others in recovery. This is meant to be a place where people can visit for support, not derision or division.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/11/2019 07:56AM by Amyjo.

"The Facebooking of RfM"

How much sharing is too much? Or is there no such thing as too much sharing?

There is absolutely such a thing as oversharing. My new method is going to be skip threads started by certain people, and start ignoring anything where the “fighting” is going on, just not my thing.

There is such a thing as too much sharing.

Wise man once told me that just because some amount of a good thing is good doesn’t mean the more of it’s going to be better.

If you think someone is a troll or breaking rules or posting too much off topic stuff, you can report it.If you dont, the mods may not even be aware of it. They have lives and dont read every thread.

Me too. Thanks.

I am tired of the constant bickering of a few esp if the topics are not relevant to the purpose of the board. It just seems to be a bid for attention.

OK ~


see you tomorrow OPie ~

I'm a nevermo who came to RfM in 2007 to learn about mormonism and stayed because I became attached to many long-time posters. I try to keep out of the way unless I have something genuine to contribute from my Anglo-French nevermo perspective.

The quality of the posters and posts varies, but I've always found enough to keep me interested, particularly the eprsonal experiences and the historical information. I understand your criticisms, however. There are one or two current posters (well, one in particular...) whom I find tiresome, particularly with their unwarranted "know-it-all" attitudes which they apply to everything and everything.I hope you don't leave us, Messygoop, as I've always found your posts enlightening, but if you do, allow me to wish you all the best in your future journey.

Tom in Paris

Tom in Paris: It's always great to see you. Just the word 'Paris' evokes my pleasant memories of my one and only - and hectic - weekend in that amazing city. But more, your posts are always interesting, fun, helpful, salient, on point, and worthwhile reading.

You don't have to "stay out of the way" just because you're nevermo. Some of our most amazing contributors are nevermos (summer and Tevai leap to mind).

I get what you mean, though, somewhat, as I have often thought that BICs are the truly justified folks here, not adult converts like me. Of course things are likely rougher for them, certainly than for a short term convie like me (in for three years). They don't have to feel bad about being clueless enough to actually choose to join the church - they were in it without their permission. Unlike me, an adult who surely should have known better. It's kind of embarrassing, and it gets worse as time goes on, not better.

Anyway, always lovely to see you!

Tom is one of my favorites, so too Nightingale. Both are insightful and particularly compassionate people.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's kind of embarrassing, and it gets
> worse as time goes on, not better.

I have 3 missionary kids. Don't be embarrassed. I admit when I started posting on RfM and for a few years I wondered at the sanity of the people who converted. I should have known better. My limited experience with baptizing alcoholics, gay teenage boys, and people wanting to immigrate to the U.S. wasn't a good sample.

From you I've learned the truth - Mormonism has its appealing side and my kids are pushing that to the hilt.

Sorry for ever thinking ill of those poor people caught by Joe's trap.

Someday, perhaps we'll get to Paris from Germany and share a toast.

I am taking a long break, maybe permanent break) from RFM board. Lately it causes me additional stress rather than help me with recovery from tscc. There is a poster here who never mentions his previous experiences with LDS membership nor his recovery nor anyone else's. He uses this board to aggravate and send hatred to others. I would like to ignore it, but his stuff permeates the board making it impossible. I have reported him and received no help at all. This situation is hopeless and triggers me.
So to all you sweet people who have been kind, thank you so much for your help and loving care! Be kind to yourself!

Hey, if you check back (and I'll love you forever if you do), check out r/exmormon, if you're not already there. Maybe we'll meet up in one of their chatrooms!

At my stage in life, one of my remaining wet dreams is spending a couple of hours in a chatroom with some of you unprincipled Princelings and Princesses.

Luv to you, Aquarius. You're a good-hearted soul. I hope you return. Your posts have been loving, encouraging, and supportive to others in recovery from Mormonism.

You've been one of my favorite posters. And your username is my Zodiac sign which I am rather fond of.

Hugs and well wishes from,
Amyjo

It's good, Aquarius, to do what you need to do for yourself. Recognizing how to decrease our stress levels is a big step towards creating our own best environment.

But, you will be missed. All the best to you. Hope to see you again sometime.

Aquarius is one of my favorites too! (((HUGS))), oh watery one!!

Thanks for your recent well-wishes during my most recent health challenge!!

I have been posting on this site and reading for a decade. Seems about the same to me. Still an excellent site for recovery in my opinion. Adm on this site does a really good job about people using multiple monikers, trolls, etc. You know it's volunteer and they have lives too. Nothings perfect. I see adm doing a great job calling out potential problem maker, warning them, and are pretty nice about to them. People are at all stages of recovery, and I see adm being careful about respecting where someone may be just going through a stage of recovery, allowing them to vent, and not jumping on them - to a point. I just skip over certain monikers...no biggy. Lot's of great recovery stuff on this site. Best on the web in my opinion.

My nature is contrarian and combative, and sometimes that leads me into discussions where I can't contribute. So then I double down in the small area where I can contribute which only serves to make things worse.

So while I'm not a troll, I am the kind of person to add fuel to the troll's fire.

Apologies for those times where I might hurt recovery, but please understand that I'm not so sorry about it that I'm looking to change my behavior. Yet. :)

go away

I agree with you, Messygoop, but don't let the trolls win. I don't know why posters like Jacob who contribute very little to the recovery effort and seem to be here mainly to agitate posters and derail discussions, are allowed to post here.

I enjoy reading your posts and will be sorry to see you go.

oops, I didn't mean to post my message to messygoop as a reply to my post.

I did mean to tell jacob to go away

jacob, I hope CZ shows you the door. Wasting the time of others because you can't control yourself is a crappy thing to do.

http://www.flamewarriorsguide.com/warriorshtm/rebelwithoutclue.htm

John Locke suggested that self awareness is a moral responsibility, although I don't think he used the term self aware. My admission about my character and personality is in no way an admission that I cannot control myself, simply an acknowledgement of something that I do on occasion. And I acknowledge that because I personally strive to be a moral person.

CZ is obviously free to do as they choose. I would however suggest that booting people from the board for being different is counter productive to the goal of recovering from Mormonism. Not every Mormon or ex Mormon is going to fit in to predefined boxes.

I think that control of the topics and flow, without a heavy hand, is a perfectly reasonable way to go. I also observe that for the most part that is what happens. It creates an identity for the whole community without restricting the identity of the members of the community.

Just my two cents.

Even though I still maintain membership, for a variety of personal reasons, I find that membership in this board iS of monumental help in the retention of my sanity. I try to stick with subjecdts that are beneficial to recovery and without this board I don't know how I would cope.
other posters KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!

Ah, shucks...

I like you, too!

I must have a built-in radar for contentious posts and automatically ignore them. I’m always going along, happy as can be, just answering things that interest me. I’ve been around for well over a decade, with little troubles.

Ah, Messygoop and Aquarius--you are two of my favorite posters! Just a few days ago, Messygoop, you wrote some ideas that were very helpful to me! After being on RFM for 5 years, I still got help here a few days ago.

I don't take the troll-like posters seriously. Just because someone takes the time to write a post, this doesn't mean you are obligated to read it. They write just to publish themselves, to hear themselves--it's like looking into a mirror for them. They don't care if they annoy other RFM'ers.

Everywhere we go, everywhere we work or play, every group we belong to--there will always be "blue jays." I call Cluster B, trolls, stalkers, harassers, some salespeople "blue jays", because they make more noise than the other birds. They chase away the songbirds and the prettier, cuter birds. They drown out the lovely songs with squawking and screeching. Bad on the surface, they do worse damage than that--they eat other bird's eggs, and even kill the baby birds!

I don't want blue jays on my property, but I must allow them, in order to have the other birds there, too. It's just the way nature is.

Handle these trolls like you do annoying TV commercials. We watch for free, so we have to put up with the advertising. Here on RFM we are free to express our ideas; therefore, others are free to express their ideas, too. It just goes with the territory.

RFM has been a life-saver for me! Thank you all so much!!!!

When I first came here, there were too many (IMO) posts and threads about masturbation. I was here to learn more real Truths, to learn that I was not alone, to learn how to deal with shunning, learn how to deal with my anger, learn how to develop my own view of Christ and God, and countless other things, that I'm still learning. Other ex-Mormons' experiences are interesting to me: their family dynamics, their missionary experiences, how they overcame their problems, etc. It has been rewarding to perhaps be of help to people. I was NOT interested in hearing discussions about sex. I didn't hate those people, or anything. I just skipped over those subjects, as I do now. I'm sure people skip over my long, rambling posts.

Every once in a while, it's good to take a break from any group. I believe in vacations! Have yourself a great summer, Messygoop, and Aquarius! I plan on taking a temporary break when I go on vacation, too. I hope you will return!! RFM needs nice people like you!

Very nice post.

Love the blue jays part.

Have a great break when it comes. It'll be good to see you back.

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Handle these trolls like you do annoying TV
> commercials.

Exminion, I'm handling the trolls like I do annoying TV commercials - I don't watch TV at all. Period. I'd rather read a book or do something outside than have to sit through all that drivel.

People say to just skip over the arguments and pissing contests. To be honest, I have better things to do than sort through a thread to decide which posts are worth reading and which aren't. That's the moderators' jobs.

So I'm treating RfM like I do television - removing it from my life. I've got better things to do with my time than watch (read) people hiss and claw at each other.

Bye bye, RfM!

Take care.

I've been thinking the same for a few days now. I didn't have much mormonism to recover from when I found this sight 21 years ago. Hated church since I was a kid, went inactive as a teen, did a mission at 22, left again for good a few years later. Liked the mission, never liked church, so the hooks didn't get in deep with me.

On RFM, I did like the discussions, humor and sarcasm, and the opportunity to possibly help others in some way with my thoughts and experiences. Lots of great posters here, now and in years past. However, as of late, it seem to cause more stress than enjoyment for me.

Over and over, topics get quickly derailed and devolve into chaos. When I see that happening, my nature is to either ignore, jump in and defend, or even go on the offense once in a while. I don't like doing that unless its really necessary and coming here isn't really necessary, nor is it much fun anymore for the reason stated.

So, since I need no recovery and if I did, I'm not sure I could get it here without all the spewage that comes with it, I think I'll take my leave.

All the best to the wonderful folks here, really, you are wonderful.

Arrivederci Baby!

Jonny and Roy

Shit! Just when I was getting to know you!

I feel the same. Roy's been great.

I agree that the board has been derailed of late by trollish behavior. We all know where the finger points. Messygoop, Aquarius, and other friends -- I hope after a break, you return. I still think this board has something to offer, but it needs to get back on track.

Ditto

As a sociopath in recovery, I will reduce my posts.

Stay.

Nightingale is one of my favorite posters, so don't think you don't contribute Nightingale. Being a convert has its own issues that we who were BIC don't understand. You've taught me a lot.

Exactly.

I think it is very important to understand the convert experience. I first became interested in the Mormon church due to a high school friend who converted.

I don't hang out here as much as I used to, either, mainly because I have less of a reason to. However, let me be among those who say they enjoy your posts, messygoop. I think you're about my age and, although I was never LDS, your stories resonate with me. You have a knack for writing entertaining stories.

I hope you'll stick around or at least stay in touch, but if you have to go, I'll understand. You should always do what's best for your mental health and be your own best advocate.

Could be solved with just having another board (maybe replace the bio board) with an off-topic area.

Then folks who want to talk about non-recovery stuff can, if they want, and folks who only want to talk about recovery-related topics can stick to the original area.

For those suggesting an Off Topic board, Susan I/S explained why that didn't work in the past and is unlikely to happen in the future in the Fundraising Post:

"Splitting things off into categories doesn't work well. By keeping everything together it gives people a chance to find something they wouldn't seek out. It also has the propensity of dividing the community"
https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2241026,2241977#msg-2241977

(Her whole post is very interesting btw, it answers the questions about pictures, PM's, and other updates to the board software.)

Personally, I feel like the admin's have enough on their plates with this board alone. Trying to moderate an Off topic board with volunteer, part time admins sounds like a nightmare to me. If you think the admins are having a hard time keeping up with the issues on this one board, expanding things only compounds the issues and the work they would have to do.

There are plenty of places where people can discuss "Off topic" things on the internet. It is the internet after all, there's a place to discuss pretty much anything someone would want to. I personally don't think this one board needs to be everything for everyone, it just can't be that.

Amen!!!!!

Troll on RFM sometimes means those who might simply disagree with the party line . The party line seems to be on occasion those who post here frequently . because most of us are ex mormons does not mean that we need to always agree .If this is the case the. Leaving Moronism didn't teach us much. if,we,cannot politely disagree then might as well put our right arm to the square and pledge support for the 12 most frequent folks who post here

It seems to me that threads have been derailed a lot lately solely with an aim to stir things up. The thread goes in a completely different direction in a way that is destructive. Meanwhile, a post from someone new who needs support in leaving the church is buried down-board. Therefore the entire reason the board is in existence is subverted.

The problem has been so bad that I've wondered if the newer posters who are sending the board south are agents of the church trying to bring the board down. Yes, I've actually wondered that. That's how awful it's been.

Beyond that I refuse to be disrespected as a woman, as a teacher, etc. just because some blowhard needs to mouth off.

Does Jordan actually need support? Because I haven't seen any evidence of that. Is he here to support others? -- Haven't seen much evidence of that either.

I agree with you that civil debate is a good thing, and I saw at least one good debate going on today. But deliberately stirring the pot is not the same thing as a civil exchange of ideas.

>"The problem has been so bad that I've wondered if the newer posters who are sending the board south are agents of the church trying to bring the board down."

You're not alone, I wonder that myself.

I also agree that civil debate is a good thing.

There are people like Jordan who appear to come here only to sow discord. That doesn't help anyone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2019 06:09PM by Soft Machine.

It's no secret that I'm a neverMo. I've always been open about that. But about half of my extended family are TBMs. I came here to "figure out" some of their antics, why they could wreak such havoc, have learned a lot, and stuck around although I don't post much or often. In fact, I used to come here daily, but less so recently because I think the caliber of discourse has gone downhill.

Let me give an example: I just went back and read my first ever post of substance. Like many people, especially when they first arrive, I was a little "creative" with personal details, lest "they" find me online here (silly, in retrospect, but it seems to be fairly common). Anyway, I described myself as much more religious than I was at the time, although it was a fairly accurate earlier incarnation of myself. I was even a little surprised now as I re-read it, because there was no vitriolic belittling of the beliefs I described. In fact, there were others who shared their post-Mormon church memberships, and encouragement to continue my own.

As some of you know, I teach Software Engineering. It's a large, publish or perish, state university. Some of my colleagues are doing interdisciplinary research with Psychologists and Sociologists into online behavior. It's interesting stuff. Let me make a few related observations.

The virtual world tends to heat up when those with the loudest voices share some conflicting assumptions:
1) I'm right unless you prove me wrong (and even then I might not agree, because I'm virtuous), and
2) you're wrong unless you prove yourself right (and even then I might not agree, because I'm virtuous).
"You prove you're 'right'. I'm right because MY opinion is obviously 'truth'." This often leads to road rage like behavior, but worse because participants are cloaked in anonymity. People will say things online that they would NEVER say in person.

There's another phenomenon whereby many posters are excited about showing their expertise when the topic at hand turns to their "real world" area of expertise. "This is my thing." "That's your thing." Etc. But virtually every online community has at least one participant who purports to be not just an expert in one or two things, but in ALL things. Naturally, that's exasperating for others.

Most people want to "belong" somewhere. And many people aspire to be the special one in the office who can always get the computers to work, or debug the program, or be the admin assistant who throws the best parties, or whatever. People want to belong, be recognized and special. And for some that means being the recognized such-and-such expert at exmormon.org instead of an online forum dedicated to such-and-such, the proverbial big fish in a small pond. And, although "fish out of water" might be a better metaphor, since it's not the "thing" that "their" forum is for, they want no pretenders to the throne interloping on their territory.

It should come as no surprise that some people enjoy watching the online cage matches, and given all the potential for friction, it doesn't take much to stoke the fires. And the "smartest ones in the room" often can't resist taking the bait. It really becomes theater of the absurd when both parties are admonishing others to "not read my posts if you don't like them," when each has clearly lit their flame thrower after reading another's post(s).

What's sad is that when you consider the "mission" of RfM, the antics that ensue here are really detrimental. Mormons are culturally conditioned to "be nice." That's genuinely attractive to a LOT of people. When those people wise up, start to have doubts about Joseph's Myth and start looking for answers, if they arrive at RfM today they are likely to be discouraged. I wonder how many people who are saddened by the deterioration here would fall into that category. If the "tone" at RfM was what it is now when I arrived, I would have turned away (I wasn't looking for arguments; I was looking for answers and help). Think about it: are you going to ask help from someone you just saw virtually eviscerate another?

To that end, it could actually be of benefit to the Morg to have people here bickering.

Shouldn't this place exist first and foremost to help draw people out of Mormonism? Is it really going to help former Mormons recover if they don't feel welcome? The biggest source of contention here seems to be politics. Should it really matter here what people think politically?

FWIW, I liked this place better when politics was off limits.

Life is a journey. At this way station, I'd suggest just helping TBM's shelves break, getting them out and helping them heal. Being the "Big Kahuna" of stuff that doesn't matter ought to be of very little value here.

great and I enjoy reading your posts. I agree that there have been some problems lately, but just with a very few if not less than a very few. I still find benefit from this board and I'm glad it is here.

I would agree. Posts get derailed too often by some who want to one up each other. And they fight over issues that have nothing to do with recovery from mormondom.