Like Utah needs another temple (not!)

But the Church Corporation needs another commercial investment in real estate assets close to its home quarters to keep those home fires burning bright !

A mini temple in every suburb and town in the urban sprawl around Salt Lake City.

Sure. Why not?

Saves on gas and travel time. Cuts down on congestion and waiting lines in the other temples nearby like Ogden and Salt Lake's.

Brainstorm or fartstorm, it will be another asset for TSCC commercial real estate holdings no matter how busy or un-busy the temple will be in years to come.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900079685/layton-utah-temple-lds-mormon-davis-county.html

As of April there were 17 temples in operation in Utah, and four were being announced. I don't know whether Layton was in that group or not. If it's an additional one, then that makes 22 temples for Utah. If not, then 21 at present.

https://fox13now.com/2019/04/07/church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-announces-8-new-temples-renovations-of-pioneer-era-utah-temples/

This one's supposedly going to be 87,000 sq. ft. so a fairly big one. About halfway between Ogden and Bountiful.

That is huge. Not a mini temple.

They've been on a building binge for the past several years. They're dumping church funds into building commercial real estate holdings. Temples build equity in prime real estate venues. Church houses, not so much. They don't need church activity to build temples. Temples build value. Not church houses. They take up more space, more luxury properties. More prime areas to build on, etc. Money, money, money, is the church mantra.

"Temples build equity in prime real estate venues. Church houses, not so much. They don't need church activity to build temples. Temples build value. Not church houses."

And why do temples build equity in prime venues but ward houses do not? Ward houses are smaller, but I'd say it is about a 4 to 1 ratio. So why wouldn't 4 ward houses build the same equity?

Besides, equity is nonexistent until you can sell the property, or borrow against it, neither of which LDS Inc does.

I have no idea what you are talking about, and I think that may make two of us.

Conveniently located temples increase tithing receipts. They are not tax shelters. They are not conduits for sweetheart construction deals. Ward house construction would work every bit as well for generating sweetheart construction deals, and they clearly are not pouring money into ward construction.

Actually, temple-going in Utah is a big deal. I have relatives by the South Jordan temple, and they report the parking lot there is always packed. Ditto the one up on the west side near Herriman.

Baby Boomers are retiring in droves, and apparently they are trying to get as many heavenly brownie points as possible. Yeah, I know. I'd rather walk on hot coals. But from what I hear, the local temples are busy busy busy.

Things are kind of quiet in Bismarck, ND temple :)

Commercial real estate holdings is the investment value, whether selling or not. It builds value as time goes on.

In prime locations which the church constantly looks to when it buys land to build temples on.

It buys only the best land in the most ideal locations as real estate property holdings, and commercial investments.

If you don't know this you don't understand real estate or investments.

Paris, London, Hong Kong, Bern, Switzerland, Japan as elsewhere.

Even the new temple going up in Washington, Utah is being built in a prime real estate location. As is the one in Pocatello, Idaho. For only top dollar, and where the most sought after prime real estate deals are made.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 06:57AM by Amyjo.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Commercial real estate holdings is the investment
> value, whether selling or not. It builds value as
> time goes on.
>
> In prime locations which the church constantly
> looks to when it buys land to build temples on.
>
> It buys only the best land in the most ideal
> locations as real estate property holdings, and
> commercial investments.
>
> If you don't know this you don't understand real
> estate or investments.
>
> Paris, London, Hong Kong, Bern, Switzerland, Japan
> as elsewhere.
>
> Even the new temple going up in Washington, Utah
> is being built in a prime real estate location. As
> is the one in Pocatello, Idaho. For only top
> dollar, and where the most sought after prime real
> estate deals are made.

Commercial Real Estate is Based on the amount of income the asset produces. Temples and church houses are special purpose buildings which are often difficult to lease out at a market rate. So compared to surrounding office or retail properties they do not hold their value well. To get a market rate income from them you probably need to tear them down and rebuild something more practical. So at least from a real estate investment strategy temple and churches would be a very poor performing investment.

The church would be better off just buying the land and not building a temple on top of it. They could flip the land or lease it. The church does own and lease agricultural land.

Temples really are a waste of money. The only revenue they generate is the tithing to get the temple recommend. Who would want to buy a LDS temple? Temples are an expensive white elephant and I hope the church goes broke building too many of them. I find most of them stupid and ugly.

The church doesn't need to borrow against its equity.

It is the *assets* it lists as its *net worth.* Which we all know is in the gazillions, but due to lack of transparency it does not want anyone to know outside the inner circle what its net worth is.

Its commercial real estate holdings which include primarily its *temples* around the world and locally make up a significant portion of its net assets for its total net worth in its annual report it surely publishes and keeps internal for its "profit" holders, corporate officers, and finance dept. It's that annual report that will never see the light of day, unlike a publicly shared company.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 07:16AM by Amyjo.

The church really is a corporation that issues one share of stock. The sole stock holder is the church president. Russell M Nelson only needs to answer to himself.

Even the apostles are just paid employees. Most the membership are volunteers and donators. The church doesn't have to disclose anything so it doesn't.

That's the truth of what the church is and so many members actually believe they belong to something and feel part of it. Haha! No. It's Russel M Nelson's church and he does act like it is.

And all of it Tax-Free!

Maintenance-free, because Mormon minions do all the maintenance for free.

Actually, the less "use" of the building, the better. Less wear on the carpets, less tushes wearing out the furniture--people aren't allowed to sit on the couches, in the first place. Less cars on the parking lot.

Most of that valuable real estate is covered in asphalt, you know. Doesn't it seem strange that the parking lots are way too large? Slop tar on the land, and claim it Tax-free.

Calling all conspiracy theorists!

(but will ignore dopey political nutjobs)

There is NO NEED for additional temples in this world, most CERTAINLY not this size.

I hope somebody out there follows the money and uncovers some un-torwards dirty work. SOME PEOPLE are taking some serious kickbacks out of the LDS Inc. They HAVE to be.

Even in Utah, is temple-going this big of a thing?

I've been told by current attending mormons, er, uh, former mor....no that doesn't' work....non-mormon-but-mormon-but-we-can't-call-ourselves-mormons that the church is kind of going in a different direction, that they are going to be focusing on temple work and not so much on sunday so-called "worship" that at home church study and temple work will be the focus.

What a load of salesmanship crapola.

A temple in Okinawa Japan? I laughed when I saw how big the one in Sapporo was. Over 4 times the one in Fukuoka. Now, be honest people. If.....and this is the worlds biggest "IF"....if the church were true, all you need is the basics to get the work done.

GBH was right in that the basics are all you need and the basics could be built for a fraction of what they are building these bigguns for.

Something's rotten in Denmark besides the cheese.

Paris?

Rome?

Philly?

There is little to no church growth in Japan.

That does lend credence to incredulity.

The only reason shrines and Shinto and Buddhist temples are even a thing is because of tourism ie, people flock to see the landmark historic shrines and temples.

Mormonism has no influence there. The Japanese are not so easily fooled. They are polite. They are not fools.

I looked up the temple site on google maps and there is a kingdom hall across the street. One cult next to the other! Lets stay off that street. lol!

Levi could very well be right that temples and home study are going to be the focus instead of church attendance. The big error that I see in this new plan (if true) is that everyone is on a different level of experience and development in this life. And temple crap doesn't fit the needs of anyone except a few select few (mostly mormon royalty).

Right now we have tens of thousands of detained immigrants at our southern border. They are certainly not thinking about temple worship but are more interested in just trying to survive. Then there are all the folks working two jobs trying to make ends meet and are chronically poor. It's not a fun life. Temple crap is not helping any of these categories yet the GAs keep spouting off their nonsense.

^^^^Ditto this^^^^

As difficult as it is to get approved for a temple recommend, I really doubt with the church going into decline, and church meetings cutting back, as membership is in decline, that the demand for temple growth is growing.

It really seems to be a way for the church to divest its money trove into building investments that are tax shelters.

I've been saying this since 2000 when they did the big McTemple building boom.

They've done this before in the history of the mormon church.

Back in the day, there were 4 temples. St. George, Logan, Manti & SLC.

Big temples. Then the Profit (not misspelling it) proclaimed "Let's build smaller temples so we can take them to the people" and they built Hawaii, Alberta & Mesa which were smaller, and "out in the field for the members".

Then they started getting big again, with Idaho Falls and Oakland and then the Profit said, "Let's build them smaller and out in the field "for the members" so they started building them smaller with Swiss, London & New Zealand.

Then they started building them big again, like Los Angeles (fuggin Sing Sing Prison looking thing), Washington DC, Ogden & Provo, Sao Paulo, Seattle etc.

Then the Profit said, let's build them small so we can "take them to the people" so they set about building small ones like Atlanta, Samoa, Tona, Chile, Tahiti, Sydney.

Then they started getting big again like Mexico City, Jordan River and then the Profit said "let's build them small and take them to the people" and so.....they did the Stake Center looking ones that were small like Chicago, Dallas & Boise. Of course, they were too small, so they started getting bigger like Las Vegas & Portland.

Then they started getting BIG, like San Diego, Bountiful, Mt. Timp, St. Louis and Madrid.

What did the Profit say? "Let's build them small and take them to the people" and what did they do?

The McTemple Series, the 10,700 SF little ones like Spokane, Bismarck, Detroit, Raleigh & Fresno.

Then they found out that they were too small and started building them bigger like Santo Domingo, Boston, Redlands, Twin Falls, Draper.

Now they're building them giant sized like Paris, Rome, Cedar City and this big Layton thing.

The next small ones are up to bat in Kinshasa, Guam & Puerto Rico.

Let's see what the Profit has to say next. I think I have a pretty good idea.....

The thing is, all those McTemples.....those little ugly ones are starting to be rebuilt, just like I thought they would be. That's going to cost them a bit, as will the new construction.

I hope they overextend themselves like I think they will.

The year 2000 was the banner year for the mini McTemples ... 34 dedicated that year. I don't think we'll ever see that number in one year again.

The second-most number dedicated in one year was 1999, with 13.

Almost all those dedicated in '99-'00 were the small look-alike models that Hinckley championed and many of these are now going through renovation.

As we go along there's going to be a lot more renovations than new temples.

Great one, Levi!

I just want to see one that is a real community partnership.

Like combining a temple with the local sewage treatment plant.

Come to the temple to see where all the shit really goes!

You could use the sewage to fertilize a real growing Garden of Eden and then you could watch Adam fertilize Eve after the fall in the new unrated temple movie.

Nice break down of temples there. I agree. They will over-extend themselves. The church has a history of it. The church got in financial trouble building the Kirtland Temple. That financial failure ended the euphoria quick and Joseph Smith had to get out of town.

The church latter got itself in debt finishing the Salt Lake temple. They had to go to cash tithing to pay their debt off.

Apparently the church was in debt again in the late 1950's. Again caused by building too many expensive buildings.

There seems to be a build it and they will come mentality in the church. The church was pretty fiscally conservative in the 70's and 80's. Neither Spencer W. Kimball or Ezra Taft Benson were crazy spenders. That all changed when Gordon B. Hinckley came in. He spent crazy money updating church historical sites. He went of a temple building craze. He spent a half billion dollars on a ridiculous conference center and a huge mall project. This spending has continued and is continuing with Russell "You've seen nothing yet!" Nelson.

I don't think the church is bringing in more money because it's not bringing in more members. Yes commercial real estate and stocks have done well but those eventually crash. Sure the church owns nice parcels of land but they ruin the value when a temple goes on it. Temples are like building a weird house that nobody wants. You are better just sitting on the dirt with no building on it investment wise.

I checked the maps. They are in "good" company there: The Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses is almost kitty corner to it. Of course there is mormon church just across the street and another up that street.

It makes you wonder exactly how many church temples in Utah will be enough. 30? 40? 50? More?

That's where the money is.

go out of state to go on a vacation where they visit a bunch of temples.

Soon they will be like stake centers. When I was young, stake centers were a big deal. We all went to the local chapel. I liked those buildings much better.

The leaders are so out of touch. I agree with macaRomney. My daughter and her new husband are more concerned about how they are going to make it financially. She has a degree. Not like it makes a huge difference in earning potential. Everyone is working at least 2 jobs. They don't know how they are going to be able to afford children. My daughter even asked me where to get an education in medical coding so she can work at home like mommy did and, at one time, she thought me working at home was ruining my life. She says they give talks about these issues in GC, but she is facing the realities now. I know she is debating even having children and definitely no more than 2 IF THAT.

The leaders haven't a clue what the young are dealing with. When I had twins, I never paid 1 cent out of pocket for my medical bills or their's--as my husband and I both had good insurance that was, for me, $1 a pay period. Now they have to go on Medicaid to have a baby. My daughter has decent insurance, but they are afraid. Rent is over $1000 a month for a small apartment even in Cache Valley.

When I had to go out and look for a job in the past 8 months, I was shocked to find out I could only earn what I did 33 years ago when I quit the job I had to have twins.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2019 12:00PM by cl2.

Another opportunity to guilt up the youth with endless interviews.

I was about 14 when the Bountiful temple went up. We had to endure worthiness interview just to volunteer at the open house, be interviewed to attend the dedication, and interviewed to go in for baptisms for the dead...there was no end to the probing.

How about these brown-nosers?

https://kutv.com/news/local/layton-family-sells-home-and-land-to-lds-church-to-build-layton-temple

I hope that they got a fair price for their house and their land. That is a good chunk of land.

No matter what they get for the property, they'll have to turn around and give 10% back in tithing.

The Mormon church, taking with one hand and also taking with the other.

One thing for certain, the Mormon Church does not tithe on its hedge funds or its marketable assets.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2019 09:20AM by Amyjo.

I will be able to see it from my once beautiful view of the lake. Great sunsets, antelope island.

Are you near the Bird Reserve there in Layton?

I went to visit there in June. We didn't see many birds, but apparently they migrate there from all over the world still. It was hard to see that once the Great Salt Lake stretched all the way there and beyond. It still does, but is now mostly a marsh that's left there and what's left is still the place the birds flock to at different times of the year.

We walked around the boardwalk (a mile long and round circumference.) I could hear birds underneath it in the marsh beating their wings when I passed over them. We got several photos of some birds, not too many though. It must have been off season when we were there in late June.

The Great Salt Lake (or what's left of it) used to stretch for 70 miles all the way to Brigham City?! I was surprised to learn that and then some.

I am just west of highway 89. So from my deck I will be able to look down at this lovely building. The way they are lit at night it will be hard to ignore. That bird preserve from what I recall dies go through seasonal changes. If you have time make the drive out to antelope island. We have the most amazing sunset spring and fall from the deck. Now we will have Moroni

I could be nice and invite my neighbors over for the view of this lovely monstrosity. Not sure if I have enough duct tape to put over my mouth lest I insult the building. Nah. I try not to spend too much time with most of them



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2019 09:12PM by beansandbrews.

That sounds about like what is going down with the Washington, Utah and Pocatello, Idaho temples. They're being built on prime real estate lots on hilltops looking down over the local cities so you can see them all lit up at night and they can see the city lights twinkling below them. I believe the same happened with the newish Cedar City temple as well.

The housing developments going up around each of the temples are driving up the real estate values simply by virtue of the temples being built in each of those locations. It means more profit for the realtors both in the commercial and residential sectors. Making it a sellers market over a buyers market. Just think, your home property value is going to go up now because of the Layton temple! Woot woot! ;)

Mormons like to wheel and deal that's for sure. Where there is money to be made, that's why Utah is bursting at the seams!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2019 09:56PM by Amyjo.

IN this case they couldnt find any hilltop land. Udot has purchased all of that for the raod project on 89. The tempke site is a stones throw from Smiths, Mcdonalds, cal ranch, Chevron. The land is already built up around it with middle clas but well kept homes. You wont be able to see it from the west. BUt my deck, perfect night time view. You are right that they try to put them up high.

They waited too long this time.