I read this article in The Deseret News this morning (there weren't any Salt Lake Tribune papers left to buy) and it disturbed me, even though I'm no longer a member of TSCC. It's titled: "God Is Real". It's about a man who has had 130 tumors growing all through his body during the past year, what he's been going through, and how he has been coping. He and his family are active LDS. His statements show just how far brainwashing can go, but maybe it is his way of trying to cope. He said:"I used tyo ask God why I had to deal with trials and, quite frequently, to remove those trials from my life. What I failed to understand then was that the purpose of this life is to endure trials. That's the whole point of our existence here on earth. We gain experience by going through trials." So, according to mormon doctrine, our whole purpose in this life is to suffer and endure. This contradicts their own scripture in 2 Nephi 2:25 where Lehi said "Men are, that they might have joy". I can empathize and sympathize with what he is going through, because my mother suffered with cancer for 5 years and then passed away from it. My sister in law had reoccurring brain and liver tumors from the time she was 27 years old until her death at 50 years of age. During these difficult times, I never once thought: "this is what it's all about: suffering"; I did and still do question why a loving, merciful God would allow these things to happen and why a real cure hasn't been discovered, but I still believe or hope in a higher power that does care about us. I don't believe though,that our purpose is to suffer through this life; we're meant to have happiness and joy also as passengers with us on board this journey of life.

Thankfully, I've never had cancer, but when people tell me that what I've been through in my life has made me stronger, I tell them, "NO, IT HAS NOT." I don't feel stronger. I can't even say I'm glad I made it through other than I'm here for my kids, but the idea we came here to suffer and endure is a horrible thing to believe.

Myself, I'm more of the attitude of (what I told my mother when she asked once), "I will never allow myself to go through something like that again." And my suffering was nothing like so many others go through.

One of the hardest things about what "I" went through, was watching my children suffer, too. I don't understand the concept of a god who would want his children to suffer.

If bad things happen to me, it is a trial from God and proof that he loves me and wants me to grow.

If bad things happen to people I don't like, it is proof that God hates what they're doing and is punishing them.

Actually, the rain falls on the just as well as on the unjust.

To get through it in the best way you can~~

I would like to throttle anyone who says "Things happen for a reason." Which is, I believe, supposed to be comforting but makes me want to reach for the nearest megaphone to shout ARGHHHHHHHH!

Reality TV star Beth Chapman recently died after a second bout of throat cancer.

"For her second bout with cancer, Beth has opted to forgo chemotherapy after her attorney reported last December that she had begun the procedure. According to Pop Culture, Beth announced in a live stream that she would indeed not be undergoing chemotherapy.

“Chemotherapy is not my bag people. That is not for me,” Beth noted. “For me, this is the ultimate test of faith. This is my ultimate lesson. And it’ll either be taught to you or to me.”

I didn't watch her show, but she left a big imprint on many people's lives.

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reality TV star Beth Chapman recently died after a
> second bout of throat cancer.
>
> "For her second bout with cancer, Beth has opted
> to forgo chemotherapy after her attorney reported
> last December that she had begun the procedure.
> According to Pop Culture, Beth announced in a live
> stream that she would indeed not be undergoing
> chemotherapy.
>
> “Chemotherapy is not my bag people. That is not
> for me,” Beth noted. “For me, this is the
> ultimate test of faith. This is my ultimate
> lesson. And it’ll either be taught to you or to
> me.”
>
> I didn't watch her show, but she left a big
> imprint on many people's lives.


It's a given that I'm not that bright...

Amyjo, I do not understand the above explanation of the purpose of life.

A reality tv star whom you didn't watch, but who left a big imprint on many people’s lives, died after refusing a proffer of medical treatment...

What is the conclusion we are to draw from your post regarding the purpose of life?

>What is the conclusion we are to draw from your post regarding the purpose of life?

Easy, EOD.
The purpose of life is to die.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> It's a given that I'm not that bright...
>
> Amyjo, I do not understand the above explanation
> of the purpose of life.
>
> A reality tv star whom you didn't watch, but who
> left a big imprint on many people’s lives, died
> after refusing a proffer of medical treatment...
>
> What is the conclusion we are to draw from your
> post regarding the purpose of life?

It's plain as day, as Beth said “For me, this is the
> ultimate test of faith. This is my ultimate
> lesson. And it’ll either be taught to you or to
> me.” It doesn't get any plainer than this.

You either have it or you don't. Which is why it didn't resonate with you. That she saw faith as her purpose for getting terminal cancer was her reason for dying from it. She was able to see beneath the cancer and this life to what lies beyond not as a punishment or end of life, but a transition to something infinite. She fought like heck up to the end but once she realized it was terminal and nothing more she could do, she turned it over to God and her faith in the infinite. She lived out her end of life with purpose and dignity.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Amyjo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Reality TV star Beth Chapman recently died after
> a
> > second bout of throat cancer.
> >
> > "For her second bout with cancer, Beth has
> opted
> > to forgo chemotherapy after her attorney
> reported
> > last December that she had begun the procedure.
> > According to Pop Culture, Beth announced in a
> live
> > stream that she would indeed not be undergoing
> > chemotherapy.
> >
> > “Chemotherapy is not my bag people. That is
> not
> > for me,” Beth noted. “For me, this is the
> > ultimate test of faith. This is my ultimate
> > lesson. And it’ll either be taught to you or
> to
> > me.”
> >
> > I didn't watch her show, but she left a big
> > imprint on many people's lives.
>
>
> It's a given that I'm not that bright...
>
> Amyjo, I do not understand the above explanation
> of the purpose of life.
>
> A reality tv star whom you didn't watch, but who
> left a big imprint on many people’s lives, died
> after refusing a proffer of medical treatment...
>
> What is the conclusion we are to draw from your
> post regarding the purpose of life?


I want to know also... What conclusion did you come to ?

What is the meaning of life that you have cited re: Beth

Chapman's death? Can you explain?

Well, she did, mi amor.

But we are not of the necessary caliber to grasp the finer points of ethereal life.

Or maybe we just did not not-watch her show enough to be able to get it?


-----

Okay, so I had no idea who Beth Chapman was. Now I know. She was Mrs. Dog-the-Bounty Hunter. When you ask Google about her, you are led to all the sites where you can watch her final days and hours. And then you can watch Duane Chapman detail his final hours with her, but the one clip I watched ends with a '...tune-in tomorrow for the answer to this question!" teaser.

The question he was asked was, "When you start the new season, how much of Beth's final days will you be showing?" Ya gotta give your fans what they want... I'm guessing that they'll go well into the areas of 'bad taste' (very subjective, of course) because, hey, it's reality TV!


There's an article + clips in People magazine that says, basically, that Beth fought the cancer to the bitter end, except the opting out of chemotherapy. Maybe that is giving up? Mr. Dog says she wanted to live...

https://people.com/tv/dog-the-bounty-hunter-tearfully-reveals-wife-beth-chapman-final-words/


Reality TV stars are way beyond my understanding. Looney Tunes cartoon characters are at my upper limit. It's my loss.

Did you know that Beth Chapman went to USC? I hear she was a rower.

You big fibber!


"Chapman was born in Denver, Colorado, one of five children born to Garry L. Smith, a Brach's Candies salesman. For some time she was a nightclub singer, waitress and clerk. She then had a passion for being a gymnast and an ice skater. Chapman spent the majority of her early life in Colorado before moving to Honolulu to be with her future husband Duane Chapman, whom she married in 2006.

"Chapman starred in reality television shows alongside her husband Duane Chapman, most notably Dog the Bounty Hunter which originally was released in late 2004 and lasted 8 seasons until 2012. Chapman's final series was Dog's Most Wanted. She died while the show was being produced."


Probably the thing that catches my eye the most, and which makes sense to me, is that having had her throat cancer spread to her lungs, and become stage 4, I'd probably also eschew chemotherapy since it doesn't seem to 'cure' cancer, just shrink it. And apparently, you're alive longer but feeling crappy.

Again, I apologize for not having the necessary grounding to appreciate Mrs. Chapman's demonstration of the purpose of this life.

Dog Chapman was a coxswain. That's how they met.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dog Chapman was a coxswain. That's how they met.


Stop ya killin me here....
Hhahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahhahahha

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> elderolddog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Amyjo Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Reality TV star Beth Chapman recently died
> after
> > a
> > > second bout of throat cancer.
> > >
> > > "For her second bout with cancer, Beth has
> > opted
> > > to forgo chemotherapy after her attorney
> > reported
> > > last December that she had begun the
> procedure.
> > > According to Pop Culture, Beth announced in a
> > live
> > > stream that she would indeed not be
> undergoing
> > > chemotherapy.
> > >
> > > “Chemotherapy is not my bag people. That is
> > not
> > > for me,” Beth noted. “For me, this is the
> > > ultimate test of faith. This is my ultimate
> > > lesson. And it’ll either be taught to you
> or
> > to
> > > me.”
> > >
> > > I didn't watch her show, but she left a big
> > > imprint on many people's lives.
> >
> >
> > It's a given that I'm not that bright...
> >
> > Amyjo, I do not understand the above
> explanation
> > of the purpose of life.
> >
> > A reality tv star whom you didn't watch, but
> who
> > left a big imprint on many people’s lives,
> died
> > after refusing a proffer of medical
> treatment...
> >
> > What is the conclusion we are to draw from your
> > post regarding the purpose of life?
>
>
> I want to know also... What conclusion did you
> come to ?
>
> What is the meaning of life that you have cited
> re: Beth
>
> Chapman's death? Can you explain?


Quick... somebody hold my hair while I vomit. Nonsensical

gooy, mindless sweetness always affects me that way .

Beth Chapman was a devout Christian.

She decided at the end of life her cancer was a test of her faith, and that she was going to accept it as the "ultimate test of her faith."

It was, and she did.

She had something that you can only wonder about. At the end of the day, for Beth Chapman faith was her ultimate
lesson. Which she handled with grace and dignity as well as she could.

Her faith is what got her through. She knew that without faith it would have been impossible. Her soul journey was intact as she went from one level of progression to the next. That's the promise for believers that she held to, as did her loved ones.

My personal opinion is that "the purpose of this life" varies with every person on the planet....

....that every individual's Long History [present life, plus all past lives, conceptually seen together as a sort of narrative "stream"] is different from anyone else's. Therefore: a given "present" life could potentially be selected by a large variety of different individuals, for reasons which are uniquely appropriate for that person and for that person's "circumstances."

I have written about this before: I am (evidently) the second person in this body--something I realized during regressions, but my memories were heartily supported by my mother, who (when I told her what I had "remembered" during my regressions) was 100% in agreement with what I related, and who had been puzzling about this since I was a few months old.

She was vehement that the baby she gave birth to (who had come in to this life with malevolent aspirations towards my mother, intending to "right" previous-life "wrongs" of my mother) was NOT the person I am....and that this happened suddenly and out of "nowhere"--the baby she gave birth to was (basically between diaper changes), a totally different person (and it was obvious to her when it happened, and then always thereafter).

For me, this life was the equivalent of winning First Place in a worldwide jackpot contest. Regardless of all of the many quarrels I had with a good share of my relatives in this life (they were highly racist, etc.), I was given (and given access to) a huge number of beneficial circumstances--at a unique time in our national history when I could take full advantage of most all of them. (I was a female; had this body been male, the outcomes would have potentially been even MORE different, in a positive way, than they actually were.)

During my life, I have done my best to fulfill all of the potential positives in my life circumstances to the highest and most complete point I was able to do at that time.

So who had the "purpose" that counted in this life? The first person who was born into this body I now call my own....or me?

Same family, same geographic and cultural areas, same opportunities throughout (starting when I was three years old)....but totally different outcomes for the person I replaced (had this person carried out her lethal intent re: my Mom), and me (living that "same" life, but choosing radically different experiences, and learning totally different life lessons from those experiences).

I won the jackpot, and I am aware of it, and grateful for it, every single day of my life. (On my worst, most depressive, seemingly most hopeless days, I have always been aware that--compared to most people worldwide--I won "the" jackpot of positive life potentials available to Earthlings.)

[Obviously, many other lives are also the recipients of "jackpot" wins, but many times, I think, those people living those other lives don't realize how fortunate their realities, and their potentials, actually are, usually because they tend to concentrate on the existing negatives instead of the existing positives.]

So my answer to the question asked is: It depends on the life being lived. Some (in the high millions, or even billions) are born into horrendously bad circumstances worldwide (circumstances which I am extremely deeply aware of), and I don't know the "why" of that, and I don't know if that were me, if I could figure out a way to "positively" cope with those realities (like slavery, or near-slavery, or becoming the sole surviving "parent" of your younger siblings before you even qualify as old enough to begin your local equivalent of elementary school).

Some are born into relatively "great" circumstances and are unaware of this, because they don't recognize the advantages and opportunities which might be available to them if only their perspective was different enough to allow this to happen. (Since I was in elementary school, I have always been aware of the challenges, and soul-deep unhappiness, which frequently are the lot of kids born into royal families, and also into families of extreme wealth, power, and/or celebrity. I have always had deep empathy for the kids who grow up in circumstances which appear to be "wonderful" from the outside, but are pits of bottomless unhappiness on the inside.)

And some people (like me, in this life) are born into "great" circumstances (regardless of the negative also-trues which exist), recognize full well that this incredible life is their incredible "lot" in life, and are able to live their own "best lives" fully, along with (usually) a simultaneous and generous portion of "repairing the world" at the same time.

I think the bottom line is: We are all learning stuff. The "stuff" differs across the population spectrum of the world, but (in my opinion) the most important things are learning the life lessons available to you in any given lifetime, and doing what is possible to make "your" people, "your" community, and the entire world at large, better for everyone.

Mis centavos de mi vida.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2019 04:15PM by Tevai.

Interesting response Tevai.

A reminder that there is "no one size fits all." Life is complex, as our experiences are.

As for a learning curve, that seems to be much more to our purpose than merely existing for the time we spend living.

And then there is merit to just being in the moment. Between pondering and meditating ...

Leaves doing.

Why do we have to have a "purpose"? Isn't it enough that we just ARE? Do we not have intrinsic value, merely by existing? Life is a miracle! Enjoy each moment, find joy in little things, store up joy, love, and memories for the in-between moments that are unpleasant.

The purpose stated in "Man is that he might have joy" became clear, when I left that depressing "endure-to-the-end" Mormon cult. Suddenly, about 75% of my bad moments were eliminated, and all the abuse vanished! It was like a miraculous re-birth. Sh_t happens anyway, but I refuse to allow the deliberate Mormon-caused sh_t to happen to me or my children, ever again!

what they really mean is "Endure [Mormonism] to the end." Live as an oppressed minion, die as one.

“Sh_t happens anyway, but I refuse to allow the deliberate Mormon-caused sh_t to happen to me or my children, ever again!”

But how will you be a forever family unless you pick up that sh_t and eat it?

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why do we have to have a "purpose"?


So we feel like we matter, so we feel special. That's one of the big selling points of religion. You're not a meaningless nobody, because a powerful being cares about you and has special plans for you, etc.

One of the things that led me out of the Church also led me away from all religion. There is no good answer to the question: Why does God allow some to suffer and some do not? I have never believed that suffering makes you stronger. I also cannot believe that when anyone dies prematurely that "God needed him/her on the other side.

Life is a crapshoot subject to the laws of nature, the laws of cause and effect. If you want your life to be happy and have meaning it is pretty much up to you. Do your best.

The purpose of this life is for each individual to decide what the purpose of his life is.

That reminds me of Mother Teresa who seemed to think the point of everything is to suffer.

I think that conclusion is a common outcome when people try to reconcile the reality of what actually happens with claiming God is running things. They simply decide suffering must be what God thinks is best for us. Swell guy, that God. He sure has a great way of showing love.

Divine Intelligence supposes moral judgment and order.

What was the purpose of inflicting this man with a horrible disease?

http://www.barcroft.tv/tree-man-dede-koswara-dies-rare-skin-abnormality-indonesia


There was no purpose. It just happened. There's no purpose for nature. People are good because they choose to be good and evil because they choose evil -- and quite often the two are intertwined.

Some God there eh? The purpose of his life is to suffer. Even if that was a purpose "imposed" by a gawd. What kind of shitty god is that? Why worship such a horrible monster?

He's to be pitied.

HH =)

"What is the purpose of life, if you are atheist?"

The question is a very good one. However, it implies - by the very fact that it is asked - that there is a purpose for our existence, and that we need to find out what that purpose is. But why should we assume that there is a purpose? It seems to be a common assumption, especially among believers in God or the "supernatural", that everything happens or exists for a purpose. But there is no demonstrable basis for such an assumption.

Many things obviously exist without any inherent purpose. For example, if I find a hundred-dollar bill in the street, I don't ask "What is the purpose of this money?" It is the purest accident that it is there. I may (assuming there is no way to find its owner) create a "purpose" for it, by spending it, but that purpose is merely one that I have assigned to it myself, not any purpose that was inherent in it, or that had anything to do with its lying there on the street.

Or, another example: If I win a raffle where the prize is a two-week trip to London, do I ask "What is the purpose of spending two weeks in London?" Whatever inherent purpose it may have can only be expressed in the vaguest of terms: to be in London for a while. Anything beyond that is a purpose that I assign to it. If someone presumes to tell me: "Well, the purpose of being in London for two weeks is to visit all the historical sites there and to become familiar with English history", I would object that there are many other possible ways to spend the time, and that suggestion is by no means the only one or even the best one. I might prefer to shop, to go to the theater, to walk around observing Londoners, to spend time in the pubs and restaurants, to visit the art galleries, etc.

So, for someone to tell me that the purpose of my existence here on earth is something like "to have a chance to accept Jesus and be saved" or "to learn to reject this existence as 'worldly' and 'evil'" or "to pass a test that God told me to give you" or anything similar, seems presumptuous to me, like telling me how to spend my hundred dollars or my time in London.

What is the purpose of the whale, or the tulip, or the eagle, or the mountain? Some parts of nature we humans can make some use of, even if only to admire them for their beauty, their power, their complexity, or their mystery. But that use or admiration is only something that is the product of our own minds, and does not reflect any inherent "purpose." They simply exist, and (for living things) they exist simply for the purpose of existing. And I am no different. I also exist, and that is also my purpose: to exist.

In one sense, all living things have a purpose which is built into their genes: to exist, to survive as long as possible, and to reproduce their kind if possible. For us humans, we also want to make our existence as pleasant and painless as possible, which implies (since we are social animals) getting along with others of our kind. All moral codes developed by human beings are attempts to guide us in doing that.

Does such a view make life less meaningful, less purposeful? On the contrary, I find that it makes this life the most precious thing we have, to be used and enjoyed NOW, to the fullest. If you had two weeks in London, would you spend the time complaining that it was only two weeks, and that you would never be back? Would you do only those things that you think your friends back home will expect you to have done, because you will have to report what you did, and they will "judge" how you spent your two weeks?

It's your hundred-dollar bill. It's your two weeks in London. It's up to you to decide how you can use it best. You have to decide what the "purpose" is, because, until you do, it has no purpose at all. But that doesn't mean you should simply throw it away.

This makes sense to me, as a purpose to life:

“... to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. I did not wish to live what was not life, living is so dear; nor did I wish to practice resignation, unless it was quite necessary. I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life, to live so sturdily and Spartan-like as to put to rout all that was not life, to cut a broad swath and shave close, to drive life into a corner, and reduce it to its lowest terms.”

—Henry David Thoreau—
—Walden—


No longer agree with the Spartan and “lowest terms” aspects. But this has served me very well since my early twenties.

“Our Creator would never have made such lovely days, and have given us the deep hearts to enjoy them, above and beyond all thought, unless we were meant to be immortal.”
― Nathaniel Hawthorne