To the men, I have a question. Last week I spent two days with an extremely Mormon friend that I have known since my early 20s. She was moving out of the $500,000 house and moving into something that is just gorgeous. We walked into her husband’s “man cave“ and I noticed it was quite unkempt and not tidy. I mentioned that her husband was at work already in her new city and he didn’t have time to spend in his man cave. I mention that she must feel very lucky to have this in her life and she said all that she has comes from “Heavenly Father”. And that because of that she had no trouble getting so much of her life to the church because he had blessed her so much.

I stopped her right there in that man cave and reminded her with some floors in my voice that it was “Derek” who gave her all of this. It was called “Derek” that was at work away from his family so you could still have money to even make this move.

She became very uncomfortable and then told me that her husband was very happy with all of his efforts being turned over to God. However I was not happy. She gets to live in the lap of luxury while the one space that is his is in a complete disarray because he simply does not have the time to be in there. She became very uncomfortable and then told me that her husband was very happy with all of his efforts being turned over to God. However I was not happy. She gets to live in the lap of luxury while the one space that is his is in a complete disarray because he simply does not have the time to be in there.

So my question is this. To all the men who have spent the majority of their lives working day in and day out for wages to maintain a household and pay the church at least 10%, are you OK being forgotten and having an invisible God take all the credit? And does that damage your self-esteem knowing that all your efforts are in vain and that heavenly father gets all of the love and loyalty from your wife?

Yeah my TBM wife was the same way ("was" being the key word there). Similarly, we lived in the lap of luxury, and you would have thought that I had nothing to do with it to hear her express adoration over being so blessed by HF. She worked hard as a housewife and mother - no doubt about, but she did not bring in any income, and so it was primarily me as the breadwinner). It also pissed me off because in her adoration for deity, she never gave me credit or expressed appreciation for anything. Mormon women are clueless at times. At the same, I don't expect my current non-TBM wife to worship the ground I walk on, but she does express appreciation and gratitude to me for our lifestyle - and it feels good. Glad she does.

Honestly when I was listening to her I feel like the entire thing reeked of polygamy. She may have been living with some mortal man, but it was really her heavenly man that had her back. It felt like she was having some sort of affair.

I am very glad that I have walked so far away from this community because I can’t live my life ignoring the very person who is putting food on my table. At the same time it really shows how deeply the Mormon indoctrination goes.

Beautifully put, Lori. A great line to build a song around ;-)

Tom (back) in Paris

Besides discounting her husband, it's a not so subtle claim that Heavenly Father likes her best. She is making the point that she is one of his favorites. She was claiming superiority over you even as she dissed her husband.

This on par with people giving HF credit for the brilliance of medicine and the dedication of surgeons.

If I hear one more prayer where some jerk says, "Thank you heavenly father for guiding the surgeons hands," I will not be pleasant with my remarks right during the prayer.

"the one space that is his is in a complete disarray because he simply does not have the time to be in there. "

Baloney. If he has the time to put it in disarray, he has the time to be there, and he could make the time to clean it up. He doesn't want to be bothered. Meanwhile, why can't DW do some arraying of the place? If he won't let her, then he's a jerk. If he will, then she's lazy. If neither of them care, then there was no point in bringing it up. It's not central to your point, it sounds like just a kvetch.

DW may be in denial, or just parroting the Mo Brainwashing. She sounds like she has all the depth of a sidewalk puddle. Did you consider that he may not want to be home very often? They sound like they deserve each other. Blech.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2019 01:42PM by Brother Of Jerry.

that men had to do all the wage earning. I wanted to be able to stay home. Well, staying home isn't that great either so I went out and found a job. I ended up being a single mother and the father didn't pay much of anything.

But the women and men should be grateful for what the other does IF THEY DO IT. If she is doing a great job raising the kids and keeping the house clean (including his man cave) and fixing dinner, then he should be grateful to HER and she should be grateful for him going out and working.

There is one big issue here--his time with the kids.

When I went to work, my husband watched the kids and I worked evenings a few nights a week and every other weekend. He finally bonded with our daughter as she hated him up to that point. They were beyond belief when he left us as he was a good dad.

I have to add for the "blessings" business. There was a woman who had a bolder roll over her when hiking in a not so safe place yesterday here in Utah. She came out of it well. The husband kept saying that he believed in the power of prayer more than ever. I had to keep changing the channel so I didn't have to hear it again. What about the young guy from Mexico who was hit by a rock that fell from Bridal Veil Falls in Provo Canyon a few weeks ago and was killed? He must not have prayed.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2019 01:57PM by cl2.

I don't ask much. If he'll just take out the garbage, I'll share credit for everything else----

Lori C Wrote:
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> And does that damage your self-esteem
> knowing that all your efforts are in vain and that
> heavenly father gets all of the love and loyalty
> from your wife?


This had never bothered me because I "loved" HF too at the time.

What drives me crazy today is the gender expectation to take care of a woman at home. It is like the religious belief expects women to expect to be taken care of and men can NEVER have that expectation.

Our Mormon neighbor wants to get a job but her kids are still in school (I doubt she will when they graduate) and they are all in High School.

Why even say that? Like kids are attached to women and not men? Kids are weened and then anyone can take care of them.

You're right that once they're no longer breastfed, either parent can provide care for children. We have many couple friends among which the wife has returned to work once the children are in school. This is a reality and a necessity for most families, but so much scrambling has to take place whenever a child is ill or, God forbid, is discovered to have head lice in the middle of a school day.

My wife is a partner in a law firm and can work as many or as few hours as she wants depending upon her health, though if she ever actually takes on a case that goes to trial, we'll be scrambling just as are all of our friends when a kid wakes up with a 102-degree temp on a morning in the midst of her trial. Life was simpler in the days when one parent was usually at home, and still is for some families. I can see why some would give in to the temptation to have one parent stay at home, whichever parent it happened to be.

The bottom line is entitlement, and I don't think just women do this.

The braggart who brags that God is blessing them, is creating a facade of "humility." But this person is the most arrogant of all, because he/she believes that he/she DESERVES all these blessings.

Your friend feels that she deserves to be married to her money-making slave, because she has given so much of her life to the Mormon cult. She claims that righteousness. She wants that glory. Her Mormon God would not serve her so well, if she were ordinary, like you and I are. Your positive acknowledgment, either. It is all HER. The man-cave is a mess, but is it her husband's fault, or hers? Isn't it her "job" to keep the house clean, while her husband is away scrambling and slaving to get more money to bring home to her? Why doesn't she blame some of the bad stuff on God--like the messy house, the husband not having time to be with his family, etc.

This "friend" is doing a number on you, Lori C. Thank goodness you don't follow her example in your own relationships.

Life, relationships, and happiness is all about Love. Appreciation is an important expression of that love. In so many Mormon families I (used to) know, so much time and attention, worship and adulation went out to Joseph Smith, the Mormon God and the Mormon leaders, that the spouse, parents, and children were lost in the shuffle. It is like an affair! The fanatic's spouse and children get what's left over.

In the Mormon cult, the status of a woman depends on the status of her husband. Mormons equate money and status with righteousness. I now a lot of Mormon females, like my ex MIL, who end up being "armchair generals", pushing and prodding their husband like a work horse. She manipulated my ex FIL to run for higher church positions, as well. My ex MIL used to say, "It's up to the wife to provoke her husband to righteousness." Ex-FIL committed suicide.

Your "friend" would be hard to take, and I admire you for speaking up!

God hasn’t gotten around to cleaning the man cave.

They wouldn't be so primitive a couple if their caves were clean. They have to keep up with their breeding.

Maybe the guy us just a slob? Entirely possible. Have known a number who lived like that no matter their accomplishments and financial success.

I know for me, and likely for many men, we thrive on appreciation and recognition for what we do for our family. We do it because we love them. We do it to take care of them, to provide for them, to have a nice life. When we have a woman who is unappreciative or points the finger at God and forgets the man. Well, that to me is a guy whose needs are not being met. That is a sad state of affairs for hard working men everywhere.

Ditto and Heartbroken's comment too. Lori C, glad to see you posting.

The men in my family feel the same way. They take pride in being good providers. That doesn't mean that the wives don't work, just that the men feel a certain obligation.

Men do the same thing to their wives. My mom put a lot of effort into cooking a fantastic Sunday dinner, but when my stepfather blessed the food with one of his very long and drawn out blessings, he would thank Heavenly Father for the food and not mention my mom at all. It ticked her off.

The Mormon church teaches its members that every good thing is a blessing from Heavenly Father. Then you're taught that you need to pay back Heavenly Father for your blessings in the form of tithing.

The Mormon church is really brilliant that way. Work really hard and end up with a beautiful home. The Mormon church didn't pay for it but you pay the Mormon church 10% of your income to thank them for the home (blessing). Don't tell me that's not incredibly clever.

Whats a man cave?
Is it like a she shed?

EXON46 Wrote:
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> Whats a man cave?
> Is it like a she shed?


Exactly, except that when a man cave catches fire, it blows the fück up!

You, Sir, are a credit to your gender.

If not his species ...

:)

As a college student, I realized that my success was directly correlated to hard work through reading and studying ahead of quizzes and exams. Every time I did well, it was always from my efforts. Now I tried the spiritual route. Several times, I went to Sunday firesides instead of using that time to read upcoming chapters or review my notes. And would you believe that I failed those quizzes after doing something for my spiritual welfare instead of properly studying?

I was primarily using the church institute's parking lot ($7 dollars per semester as long as enrolled in a CES course vs $300 per parking at the college). I remember being asked to pray in a group cram mid-term before going across the street for exams. I asked the group if they had been studying and their response floored me.

"We felt inspired to study select passages in the BoM instead of looking at our notes. We have faith that HF won't let us down."

I told them that they were going to bomb their tests because they didn't do their part by studying. Praying wasn't really going to help.

"Well we will see who is blessed. Our friend Roger is a returned missionary and the HF won't let us down."

So I was reasonably confident of my efforts. I had studied my book and notes and practiced the test prep question. The following week there was great a commotion within the walls of the church institute building. The group was being comforted because every one in that study group had seriously failed their midterms.

Mormon men are supposed to be Walking Wallets so their wymens won't have to / be tempted to work outside the home;

O & 'Peter Priesthood' too.


lest we forget.

I found Mormon families really vary. I came from a pretty liberal Mormon family and my wife came from a Mormon family that lived in an area with not too many Mormons. Her dad was a convert and so they were a bit more orthodox than my family was but not to crazy levels.

I married my best friend so my wife and I were really close and she always came first and the church was just something that we both grew up in. I noticed some of the other men at church took it too seriously and they almost seemed to be in a who can be more spiritual contest. I didn't give a damn. I was not so stressed out and happier. I helped one of these super Mormon men move a pellet stove. The guy just lost it at his kids. They were just being kids playing and they were kind of in our way and he just lost it.

I just saw many of these guys had far from the ideal home lives but they put the show on at church. Then on the other hand, I saw members of the church who were really great at home.

It all differs.

from the very question and concern it is discerned you have considerable insight and - well, humanity. It is rare.

Please never lose it

Is there a Mormon bubble? And who gets to live in it?

Mormons are taught to revere an idyllic existence devoted to the gospel. Their ideal is a totally gospel-centered life: prayer and fasting and life guided by the Holy Ghost where temporal concerns are irrelevant. I see similar lives in monks in Catholic or Buddhist or monasteries for other religious orders or cloistered nuns.

Who can live such a lifestyle in Mormonism? - only LDS sisters with a husband able to provide for every temporal need so she can dedicate her life to the family's spiritual salvation.

I have seen men who are independently employed or employed by the Church who can make the same declaration for their lives. A Stake President proclaimed that his dental practice always begins each day with communal prayer. He couldn't understand why others didn't hold prayers at their workplaces?

My TBM wife wanted so badly to have a gospel centered home. She wanted no idea of what occurred in the wickedness of general society.

Before we had children she was employed as a telephone operator. She would reflexively hangup on anyone who used the Lord's name in vain. Her supervisor explained that she must never drop any call - no matter how the person swore or cursed. The next call my wife dropped her headset and walked out. She could only maintain those standards because her husband was employed - and knew instinctively that I had to tolerate "attitude" from my boss, co-workers or customers.

My wife could keep the Sabbath day religiously; I had to do what was required to keep my job while working with people with other priorities.

Our situation was compounded because nobody in my wife's family had held a "job" for the past 5 generations. She could not comprehend that an employee must arrive on time and stay until their work is complete - not until the Spirit (or his wife) wants him home.

idleswell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before we had children she was employed as a
> telephone operator. She would reflexively hangup
> on anyone who used the Lord's name in vain. Her
> supervisor explained that she must never drop any
> call - no matter how the person swore or cursed.
> The next call my wife dropped her headset and
> walked out. She could only maintain those
> standards because her husband was employed - and
> knew instinctively that I had to tolerate
> "attitude" from my boss, co-workers or customers.

<sarcasm>She is a woman and they are more spiritually sensitive.</sarcasm>

> Our situation was compounded
> because nobody in my wife's
> family had held a "job" for
> the past 5 generations.

You're Mexican, too!!


Okay, seriously, how did five generations of males in your wife's ancestry attract mates and provide for offspring?

In some economically depressed regions of Canada it is possible to live entirely on government benefits. And the larger your family, the greater your benefits.

When you live in the home where your great-great-grandfather was born, farm the land to grow the same potatoes that he harvested, your dairy cow is his cow's g-g-g-g-g-grandcalf and you eat descendants of the hogs and chickens that they kept your expenses can be remarkably minimal.

When we visited my wife's homeland I learned that we could have bought that home for $16,000 (Canadian - that was ~US$10k).

Everything in their town was remarkably cheap. When the transmission in our van went I learned that the local auto repair shop only charged $25/hr compared to US$75/hr where we were living. We actually took a second holiday there just to have our auto maintenance done.

If they had Internet service to allow me to consult with clients remotely, we may have moved there permanently.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2019 03:25PM by idleswell.

That makes me glad to have a non religious wife. She gave me credit for my hard work, and I give her credit for hers. We have no deities to steal our accomplishments, humble as those are.

My husband makes less money than I do. I am scrambling to make as much money as possible and it feels like he blows it all away on fun stuff. But, at least he is contributing.

These women that stay at home and at most contribute coupons and homecooking to the finances, drive me nuts when they act as if they are putting in equal effort.

So many dads would love to stay home and deal with those kids that are driving you up the wall.

So many working moms would love to keep a perfect house, indulge in a hobby and chat with the neighbors.

To have all that and then not acknowledge where all the hard work is coming from maddening. Its narcissistic, selfish and ignorant.