Good for him. That had to take courage. He always seemed like a genuinely sweet man. IT was obvious he was gay. I hope he finds love and happiness outside the cults constricting hold.
Happy_Heretic Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Good for him. That had to take courage. He > always seemed like a genuinely sweet man. IT was > obvious he was gay. I hope he finds love and > happiness outside the cults constricting hold. > > HH =)
He is a dirtbag who made an industry of making money off his daughters kidnapping.
I do feel very sorry for his DW having invested all of those years with him, having it end like this. She must be so depressed, humiliated, and just taken aback by it all. I am sure she yearned for stability after Elizabeth, but now has to go through drama again. I assume it's hard for gay LDS men to own up to there desired lifestyle, but man, to marry a woman - steal her life and dreams, and dump her. Maybe he is a dirt bag...yeah you're right he is a dirt bag. So after fathering multiple children via her - he wants to cut and run after using her. Yeah low down dirt bag, and so is every gay LDS man who uses a female in this nature. Very cruel.
But he got married in a time when the Church was trying to "reform" gay men. Many in the church encouraged these men to to marry women, promising that straight sex would cure them of "unnatural desires." It was not like it is now.
Still, one has to grieve for the lost years living a lie.
As a straight Mormon man, I found him repugnant.
As an out of the closet gay man, I have great empathy for him and I am impressed by his courage to face up to not only his orientation but to recognize the inauthenticity of the church.
"As an out of the closet gay man, I have great empathy for him and I am impressed by his courage to face up to not only his orientation but to recognize the inauthenticity of the church."
As a straight man, maybe the more enlightened people here can educate me...
My assumption is that he was gay or had same sex attraction his whole life. He did the good mormon thang, got married, temple, had a child (or children..)
NOW he says he is gay. Flip that script on me and my wife and if my wife did this, I would be a little upset and would feel defrauded...amongst other feelings..Especially since a hetro life was built w/children and everything..
And yes, I thought he pimped out his daughter's horrific story/ordeal to the masses for public consumption, and I assume, I buck or 2 in his pocket..
The poor man has been through the wringer. Having to deal with what happened to his daughter and then being in the closet that long. Wish him well but this has to be hard for the whole family.
normdeplume Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Twinker Wrote: > > > He aways seemed weird. Now we know why. > > The whole affair as it unwound back then in > Bountiful had the smell of fish. > > Today, with all his tearful confession stuff, it > stinks even more.
I don't see the connection. It was his bad judgment to hire the kidnapper to work on his house, who then betrayed his trust, nothing to do with whatever personal issues he may have been going through then or now.
"Ed Smart, ..., shared in a Facebook message...that he is gay, divorcing his wife and doesn’t see a place for himself in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
True, yeah the LDS church has mistreated that lifestyle choice, but what about how Mr. Ed has mistreated his wife? Very cruel disingenuous selfish behavior toward her as he stole the best years of her life. Like another poster indicated, he new he was gay when he married her - he is a dirt bag. Ask his wife how she feels about all of this.
If he had been raised in a typical family with another religion, I'd agree. But he wasn't.
Men of his generation did what the church expected, having had it drilled into them that the church IS god.
I feel terrible for his wife, but I hope she understands that there's no way he could have lived as a gay man when he married her. If he had gone to the bishop for counsel at that time, dollars to donuts the bish would have told him to get married and it would cure him. We've all read cl2's story and others like it.
How horrible for her. We've always suspected he was gay--my ex and I. Never thought he'd come out.
For exminion, he has put himself in the public. Him coming out can be a good thing for all mormon gays who think they have to stay in the closet, who hate themselves, who want to commit suicide. Ed Smart isn't going to accept the lds answer to his situation. It is VERY IMPORTANT that he came out. Good for him.
I had just finished working a few hours ago and dinner was just about done cooking, and I just happened to come over here for a second to see if there was anything new. And I saw THIS. I just barely got back to the board. I NEVER would have thought Ed Smart would come out. NEVER.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2019 11:21PM by cl2.
there are many that the Mormon church says what ever you sexual orientation, getting married the Mormon way will make you straight. Will I grieve for the time he was unhappy in his marriage. I feel for his wife to. I 'm happy for him to be free to live an authentic life. may his relationships that he has with his family remain the same when he was married to a woman. may he and his family live happily ever after.
This is very important. The more people who talk about this, MAYBE SOMEDAY we won't have people like me and gemini and our ex's and our children. Until you've been here, you HAVE NO IDEA.
I wish my ex could have loved himself enough that we didn't find ourselves in this situation. I wish that when I went to the church for answers, THEY HAD SOME--not just wrong answers. I have known since 1983 and not much has changed. I want my children and gemini's children and Lois' children to live with love and acceptance in their situation. At least their generation is a lot more accepting of gays than our's is. My kids are 33.
This story is of extremely valuable importance for SO MANY PEOPLE. I'm grateful to Ed for coming out.
I immediately thought of you and Gemini and another divorced Mormon woman I know when I read this news. There have to be so many I don’t know also. Just because someone gets married and has kids doesn’t mean they are straight, doesn’t mean they won’t forever struggle with their orientation if they are not. And it’s a family affair.
His letter may not have been meant for the public, but he would have known that it would end up as a public story eventually. We all know that the best way to effect change in the mormon church is through publicity. I really believe this will have a huge impact on how the church counsels gays (oops, I mean individuals struggling with so-called same-gender attraction) and possibly hasten their eventual acceptance of same sex marriage. You know, maybe move it up from 200 years to 100 years.
So, good on Ed Smart. His daughter has made the “fight to the death if you are raped” rhetoric that we grew up with virtually disappear and continues to be a voice for abused children and he may become the voice for married Mormon gays.
I have a friend who has been in a gay relationship (now marriage) for 34 years. He was reared in a typical American family in the 1950s and 1960s. In his teenage years he joined the LDS church and very much enjoyed his experience. His parents were supportive.
Until he decided to go to BYU. At that point his father put his foot down. He said he would pay for the boy's college education anywhere but BYU. So the kid acquiesced and went to a good college in his home state. When he told me this story, I said to my friend, "Your dad knew you were gay." He laughed and said, "yes, he did. Long before I knew."
His partner, also a friend, knew he was gay when he hit puberty. The realization varies from person to person, and I have often had a hard time differentiating between the mannerisms of ideal BYU men and gay people. The church has long demanded heterosexuality while also encouraging men to be "sweet" and asexual in their public demeanor. It seems possible to me that Smart did not come to terms with his sexuality until he was married or later.
So what is one to do when he realizes he's made a horrible mistake? My intuition is that the kids' needs must come first; as my briefly Mormon friend says quite forcefully, your happiness is no longer the highest priority from the moment you bring a child into the world until that child reaches maturity and independence. At that point, though, I believe that the man (or woman) should do what feels right. The spouse in this situation will almost certainly suffer from divorce, but it is not as if s/he hasn't been suffering already.
Ultimately people need to live as who they are. That applies to a straight wife as well as to her gay husband.
I can’t help but wonder. If he found himself attracted to another woman after many years of marriage would we be celebrating his decision to abandon his wife and family? Marriage isn’t mainly about sex.
If he is gay, then I think it is good that he is coming out as leaving the lds and accepting himself.
Do I have empathy for Lois? You bet. I have empathy for any woman or man who goes through divorce. I have plenty in my family and group of friends (and my boyfriend) who have been through divorce and I, myself, have been through "divorce." I'm still married--but most people who know me say I'm the most emotionally divorced person they've ever met.
It is hell. A hell we can't explain. BUT the lds church and society (usually the religious) need to accept gays as they are and this type of marriage would decrease significantly and then there would be a hell of a lot less women and men who find out they are married to someone gay.
I can't describe the hell I've been through and my kids have been through--and my ex has been through. But we have survived and we continue to survive. The more voices the better to STOP this kind of marriage from happening. The lds need to have a "come to Jesus" moment.
He was attracted to Lois enough that he was able to father several children. I hope he takes care of Lois well. And Ihope she finds happiness with someone else.
In a (not uncommon) case as this where it is late in life:
- Does the person know he/she is "gay" all along, but trying to in good faith "fake it 'till you make it" and only later after personal growth (or changing societal norms) is able to be true to the self?
Or:
- Does the individual truly not know, and the attraction becomes known only later in life?
It may be a spectrum with poles defined by these parameters but curious as to how this generally manifests (knowing each case is individual).
Any who have a bead on this, fire away please - appreciate it, thx
My "ex" says he has known since he was about 3. But then he was involved in a lot of doing things with little boys when he was little himself--I know of one when he was 5. No, it doesn't mean he was sexually abused as he says he wasn't. And it doesn't mean he became gay because of this. My ex even could handle sex with me and he will admit he enjoyed it to a point--but he is as gay as anyone I know and I should know.
Others might not "know" until they are older. I would assume many who marry know, but they are determined they are going to fix this. Many were and are promised if they get married and have sex with a woman, it will change in the blink of an eye. No lie. If they quit masturbating, they'll be straight. If they pray and fast and pray and fast until their something--fists become bloodied while knocking on the door to ask for God to fix this--and some try. I think all mormon gay kids have tried.
He shouldn't have married, BUT this isn't all on him. I could never have forgiven my husband if I wasn't able to recognize where the main problem comes from. The leaders.
As my dad told me--when he figured out my "husband" is gay--THEY ARE BORN THAT WAY. He thought I was "smarter than that" and then I told him how the leaders handled me. He was furious. Not a one of the leaders would have wanted to meet my dad. My dad was a "scary" presence. Toughest man I've ever met.
Thanks cl2. Must be incredibly difficult circumstance to experience.
Can only personalize or make real the experience of the self in those shoes by imagining a circumstance where there is the current attraction to exclusively women - but while simultaneously "wearing a woman suit." In that hypothetical case would most certainly be lesbian and would know so from grade school.
It seems, though, "something is there" from the start and the only variable is the degree of awareness, or when one becomes aware.
You might wanna try going to some LGBTQ source for this kind of information.
It's no longer a matter of straight or gay.
It's not even a matter of straight, gay, or bi/pan.
Now we have those who identify as asexual, but may still pursue a romantic relationship, i.e. hetero-romantic, homo-romantic, and bi-romantic.
Then there are those who are demisexual, who say they don't develop sexual attraction to someone until after they know them as a person.
This is just my point-of-view, but I find it really hard to believe those (with the typical straight/gay/bi orientations) who say they didn't realize it until a breaking point much later in life.
I mean, we see all kinds of men and women growing up. And not just in person, but also on movies, tv, and other sources of media. All that exposure to all kinds of people, and you still don't realize whom it is that you want to do stuff to?
Honestly, I can only understand being confused if a person falls under the ace (asexual) umbrella.
My ex knew from a fairly young age. He stuffed it down....way down. I never had a clue about his feelings and his deep longings. When he finally came out to me, he had already spent months and months secretly agonizing about it. This was the early 90's. Our oldest was on a mission. He had just been given tenure at BYU. Our youngest was 9.
We got engaged in college. He postponed things, with my blessing, as he went on a mission. He wanted SO BADLY to have the ideal mormon life...temple marriage, children, rising up the ranks in church callings. Then, in his 40's, it all exploded. I will never know the whole story. We spent a year after his disclosure dissecting our life and relationship. We separated the weekend after our oldest daughter got married in the temple. So many awful things happened to both of us by the so called church officials and BYU big wigs.
I was his best friend. He loved me the best way he knew how. Since he was my first intimate partner, I didn't really have a good grasp on how it should have been.
He told me many times how grateful he was that I married him. Otherwise, he said, he knew he would have died of AIDS in the 80's. One thing that I remember is how absolutely obsessed he seemed to be with that disease. He was a biochemist with a PhD, so I chalked it up to his science background and he had a life mission to come up with better treatments for cancer.
Yours is a very, very powerful story waiting to be told. I believe it would have universal appeal, even with its mormon bedrock foundation. Sure-thing Oscar for DeCaprio, I kid you not. Who do you want to play the young you and then the mature you?
Can I please reprise my BYU role of Cheech Marin? It's just a cameo, really, but it would help me keep my SAG card...
I'm being somewhat sardonic because that is my nature, but it is within the realm of possibility that even just a treatise might be 'purchased' by los mormones simply for the privilege of locking up the story in the vault up Cottonwood Canyon.
It is more relevant than a lot of stuff on this board-threads on music, books movies, fights between posters over things that are unrelated to Mormonism etc. Mormon teaching on gays and the fact that Ed is a well known Mormon make this very relevant.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2019 12:07AM by bona dea.
So the church is cruel to the gay community, and in turn the gay community is cruel to the innocent straight women and men they exploit and are dishonest to. Not sure which is more cruel.
The church uses coercion on both the gay man and the straight woman to live a lie. I lay nearly all of the blame and cruelty at the feet of the church. They were both just trying to do what they were taught to believe is the right thing.
You have to live it to truly understand. You have no idea the number the church does on a gay kid. I do. Luckily I never married but I felt the pressure and it was extreme. And at that time I had the testimony which means church leaders are right and you are wrong and you do what they say.
It is a cult. There is brainwashing.
The women on the this board who married the gay men have shown such great depth in their understanding and love even as they express the lonely heartache they suffered. Their empathy for the men they married is extraordinary. Most I have seen are bitter at the church, hold the church responsible. I take my cue from those women.
The Mormon church is disgusting and they have many, many victims.
Ever consider that many of the guys who didn't marry just killed themselves? Not hard to figure out where the cruelty lies.
I wasn't a gay kid, but I sure lived through what the leaders did to me. I was one of the few women who knew when they married their husbands. What they did to me was unforgivable. What the church has done to the gays and then their families, their parents, their siblings, their children is unforgivable.