My husband and I just returned to Germany after 11 glorious nights in Scotland, eight of which were spent on Hebridean Princess. The focus of our cruise was whisky. We visited eight distilleries, one of which was Torbhaig, a new distillery on the Isle of Skye.

After we toured the distillery, we went back to the pier. I realized I had left my sweater at the distillery, so we asked the minibus driver to take me back there so I could retrieve it. The minibus driver's name was Kenny, and he was super nice.

I mentioned to Kenny that when I met my husband, he was a teetotaler, thanks to his being LDS at the time. Now he's touring distilleries! Kenny said he had a good friend who became a Mormon because of "baseball baptisms". I first learned of baseball baptisms a few years ago after reading this board. Back in the day, Mormons organized baseball teams as a means to recruit new people.

Sadly, Kenny's friend later committed suicide. I don't know why he killed himself. It's possible that his suicide had nothing to do with the church. However, it's apparent that the church wasn't very helpful.

I used the term "LDS" when Kenny and I were talking about this... and he didn't know what LDS meant. I had to explain that the church is moving away from the "Mormon" term. He immediately understood why, too. It's become kind of derogatory.

On the way back to the pier, our conversation went from religion to politics. I talked to Kenny for maybe twenty minutes or so, but it was one of the more profound things that happened while we were in Scotland, aside from seeing leaping dolphins and frolicking orcas.

Aye, an' were ya truly able ta understand the wee lad?

The Scots are my people... :D

I love going there. It's like being home again. And every time I go, I hear at least one person randomly dropping the f bomb, which I never hear in Germany (although I think it would do them some good).

I'm from Scottish ancestry.
My descendants are from the Isle of Mull. I didn't know that until after I moved onto an Island in the San Juans. I often see whales, and Dolphins here. It makes me wonder if this kind of life is just in my blood, and it took me years to find my roots.
The only thing my Island doesn't have is one of those fabulous old castles looking out to sea. We do have some amazing cliff houses and light houses though.

I have always loved the salt water and that Pacific Northwest Climate. My kids were so lucky to be raised here. It almost didn't happen. Its a piece of paradise.

Look up youtube videos of Colin Hay, the former lead singer and composer of the Australian group "Men at Work" Colin is originally from Scotland and has retained his native dialect and is a wonderful story teller.

My favourite place on earth is Scotland! I've visited several times and one year while in England for a longer trip I returned to Scotland every weekend for a few months. In the dead of winter though, when snow abounds. Brrrrrrrrrrrrr. I never got used to the freezing cold early morning toilet seat.

Besides the scenery, the history, the accents - the whiskey! My Scottish grandfather always drank his beer with a whiskey chaser, although likely that's sacrilege to some.

On one trip by train from London, England to Inverness in Scotland I got hit right between the eyes with a deadly flu bug. Thought I wouldn't make it to the hotel and never had felt so terribly ill. Darn trains. I asked the bartender to fix me a hot toddy as my preferred remedy. "Do you know what's in a hot toddy?" was his hesitant response. By the time I asked for a refill he was reassured. I swear it was a secret miracle cure. By the next a.m., instead of losing my holiday break to overpowering illness, which is how it seemed that it would go, I was totally cured! Well, at least I was down to just a bad cold. Now every time I want a whiskey I swear it's medicinal! Secret properties 'n all that. (But it has to be Scottish!)

It's fun to read you in a lighter mood, knotty. It's great you guys are having fun. Sometimes things work out even though it doesn't seem likely they will at all.

Lovely to read about your trip. I did not know you were "of the blood" so to speak. Isle of Skye. Doesn't it just sound so fabulous?

Sometimes these chance encounters are profound indeed. Something that makes you think.

I always like that.

Thanks for the return and report. I enjoyed that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2019 01:55AM by Nightingale.

Just so you know... in Scotland, it's "whisky", not "whiskey". Whiskey is Irish. :D

My family has been in the Shenandoah Valley region of Virginia since the 1700s. It looks a lot like parts of Scotland. Indeed, my dad grew up in Natural Bridge, VA and the very next town is called Glasgow. And, in fact, that's apparently that's the area where most of my Scottish links come from. My family is full of gifted storytellers and musicians, as well as depressive alcoholics. Go to Scotland and you'll find a lot of the same types of people.

We're also very English and Irish, and a touch German, but no place feels as much like home to me as Scotland does. I truly love every time we visit. The people are awesome and funny. The scenery is indescribably beautiful. And the whisky is sublime.

I usually get sick in Scotland. This time, I didn't get a stomach bug or a cold, but I did get seasick as we passed over Cape Wrath. Regardless, I did have a good time, even if one of my eyes is still a little bloody from vomiting.

However it's spelled it's good stuff. :)

I didn't know about the spelling variation, never noticed it. Thanks for educating me.

You're making me "homesick" for the land of my (grand)father. And Mom too, who hails from Aberdeen. We've never gone there. Edinburgh consumes a lot of our attention. But I read a lot about the islands. Definitely in my future, I hope.

Nightingale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However it's spelled it's good stuff. :)
>
> I didn't know about the spelling variation, never
> noticed it. Thanks for educating me.
>
> You're making me "homesick" for the land of my
> (grand)father. And Mom too, who hails from
> Aberdeen. We've never gone there. Edinburgh
> consumes a lot of our attention. But I read a lot
> about the islands. Definitely in my future, I
> hope.


Heh heheh... sorry to be anal retentive about the spelling. It was one of the many things I learned about whisky in Scotland.

I haven’t been to Aberdeen yet, but we went to Edinburgh on ou4 last trip and Glasgow on the ones before that.

knotheadusc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightingale Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > However it's spelled it's good stuff. :)
> >
> > I didn't know about the spelling variation,
> never
> > noticed it. Thanks for educating me.
> >
> > You're making me "homesick" for the land of my
> > (grand)father. And Mom too, who hails from
> > Aberdeen. We've never gone there. Edinburgh
> > consumes a lot of our attention. But I read a
> lot
> > about the islands. Definitely in my future, I
> > hope.
>
>
> Heh heheh... sorry to be anal retentive about the
> spelling. It was one of the many things I learned
> about whisky in Scotland.
>
> I haven’t been to Aberdeen yet, but we went to
> Edinburgh on ou4 last trip and Glasgow on the ones
> before that.

If you can hire a car, Aberdeenshire has a lot of castles and Pictish sites.

The old Scotland is dying fast though and the place is turning into the same dull mush as anywhere else.

Sad to hear that about Scotland. Time has a way of marching on and taking the past with it. It is what it is.

Maybe we're cousins? :)

Scots-English ancestry all over Virginia, including the Shenandoah (Lexington, Front Royal).

I wouldn’t be surprised. Mom is from Buena Vista and Dad was from Rockbridge County. Dad’s family is huge. You’d think he was LDS. ;)

He was a Presbyterian, BTW.

I just checked google maps and see that Buena Vista is quite close to Lexington. Hmmm ...

Apparently it is becoming something of a fad here in SoCal for proper Hispanic women to spice up their Spanish language conversations with an occasional "What the f~©k?", in English!

I've noticed that too, I don't speak much spanish but have noticed at work listening to the Latinos in mid sentence they stop speaking Spanish and they throw in the f-bomb or wtf. Then it's back to Spanish. I don't hear that so much in English, we don't stop mid sentence and diss the Mexican vernacular. The whites I know have a bigger vocabulary for whatever reason (they aren't more titled educated, or credentialed where I work). But the Latinos aren't as clever in using language. Or maybe Spanish is a sucky language.

But I agree visiting Scotland would be a great adventure! It's expensive though so the tourists have money, maybe classier.

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Have you ever bothered to learn another language? If so, you'd probably know that it doesn't feel like swearing when you're not speaking your native tongue. Bad words only seem bad when you've been taught as a child that they are forbidden.

You may not have intended it, but your comments comparing "whites" with "latinos" on language skills are kinda racist. If you didn't intend for race to come into it, you could have compared native speakers with non-native ones. Of course, if you had done that, it would be obvious why non-native speakers don't have the vocabulary of native ones.

Please be more respectful to your fellow human beings. Latinos are people too.

Thanks,

CZ (admin)

Thank you. The racism gets tiresome fast.

Concrete Zipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> macaRomney Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Have you ever bothered to learn another language?
> If so, you'd probably know that it doesn't feel
> like swearing when you're not speaking your native
> tongue. Bad words only seem bad when you've been
> taught as a child that they are forbidden.
>
> You may not have intended it, but your comments
> comparing "whites" with "latinos" on language
> skills are kinda racist. If you didn't intend for
> race to come into it, you could have compared
> native speakers with non-native ones. Of course,
> if you had done that, it would be obvious why
> non-native speakers don't have the vocabulary of
> native ones.
>
> Please be more respectful to your fellow human
> beings. Latinos are people too.
>
> Thanks,
>
> CZ (admin)

They aren't kinda racist, they are totally racist. How ironic
that a person who can't speak two languages like many latinos
I know and love, makes disrespectful and racist statements about
the race. Is he feeling dissed because perhaps he isn't as well
educated as the people he puts down? Whatever the purpose it is
a good indication of the kind of person he is instead of being a slur on latinos. If I were you Macaromney, I'd check myself before I said something as racist as you just did.

saucie: [CZ wrote] "They aren't kinda racist, they are totally racist."

Not that it matters, I guess, but I'll say anyway that I took CZ's words as being ironic or understated or sarcastic, actually meaning: "Those are racist remarks".

I always wonder why someone would say or write racist comments, at least where they could take a good guess that their words will not be viewed with appreciation, such as here, where most posters would push back and such posts inevitably get removed. And where maybe you wouldn't want to overtly reveal your racist attitudes.

So I have to think that either the poster doesn't care about any of that or maybe there's a chance they didn't intend it the way it comes across or even that they don't realize that they are portraying racist ideas.

On another note, as others have mentioned, it's amazing to see criticism of people who speak more than one language, which is a major skill, when most of us make do with one only. Lucky for us that English is so widespread. It can make we English-speakers lazy. If we had to use our brain cells in pursuit of a second language we might see what a major challenge it can be to achieve such a feat.

I had a few years of French language instruction at school as well as extra classes that my parents signed us up for. It was taught in isolation with no useful application at all for me at the time. Regrets. When I moved to Quebec (French-speaking areas), it was an eye-opener to find out how difficult it can be to become bilingual. Even knowing the structure of the language and quite a bit of vocab, so a good head start, I did not blossom into a fluent speaker of French, ever. It was slightly useful for me when I traipsed around Paris one weekend but not really necessary. Everybody I ran into spoke English. So I didn't really try. And when I did it hurt their ears, judging by their wincy faces. Embarrassing. So, yeah, I lapsed into the lazy way - letting others be the bilingual ones while I basked in the ease of being fortunate enough to know English, thereby negating a real need for me to put in the effort of getting to grips with a second language. My loss.

Embarrassing too is the smug attitude of some who feel they are superior, be it for their skin colour or the language of their birth, when neither occurs through any effort, action or merit on their part. If they were jostled out of their comfort zone, undoubtedly epic fails would result.

So, best to be a bit humble to start with. Less far to fall. Or something like that.

macaRomney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've noticed that too, I don't speak much spanish
> but have noticed at work listening to the Latinos
> in mid sentence they stop speaking Spanish and
> they throw in the f-bomb or wtf. Then it's back to
> Spanish. I don't hear that so much in English, we
> don't stop mid sentence and diss the Mexican
> vernacular. The whites I know have a bigger
> vocabulary for whatever reason (they aren't more
> titled educated, or credentialed where I work).
> But the Latinos aren't as clever in using
> language. Or maybe Spanish is a sucky language.

This is called code switching, and it is common wherever there are people who speak [or have the ability to speak] two or more languages.

As Dave the Atheist said: Spanglish (which is a comprehensible language common in the southwestern United States--especially among teenagers, or those who once were teenagers). Songs (some of them really fine) are specifically written for those who can understand Spanglish, and you even hear it on Spanish-language radio, depending usually on the subject and/or the person being interviewed.

This is also true for English/Hebrew/Yiddish within Jewish culture (and would include Aramaic for those who are fairly learned), whether in North America, or in areas worldwide where there are a concentration of Jews (only it would be something like: Hebrew/Yiddish [maybe Yiddish; it depends] plus French, Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, etc.).

And in Canada, my impression is that, for many Canadians, English/French combines, similar to a "Spanglish" situation.

The reason why, in an otherwise Spanish conversation, you hear swear words in English, is that English has (in my opinion) significantly better swear words than Spanish does. In my experience, Spanish swear words are usually said somewhat tongue in cheek (and this really is a situation in which code switching rather naturally occurs), while English swear words tell it "like it [truly] is" so far as the speaker is concerned. (In other words, even at its most "obscene," Spanish is usually more polite than is the English equivalent used in the same circumstance.)

What on earth makes you think that a Mexican lapsing into English constitutes "dissing" (your word) English vernacular? FYI, LDS missionaries in foreign countries routinely salt their English conversations with local native words and phrases. It comes quite naturally. I've heard it routinely in Korea, Brazil and Canada (French). My biggest surprise when I visited Stockholm was that I heard considerably more English on the streets than Swedish.

As for Mexicans not speaking English as well as Americans, did I misread, or did you misstate, or were you kidding, or what! Yeah, native speakers have much better vocabularies than non-native speakers. Duh! Do you know the word for "doorknob" in Spanish? I bet every Native Spanish speaker you've ever met knows it.

I remember missionaries returning to BYU who thought they had pretty good language skills and would be able to "test out" of courses in their mission language and pick up an easy minor in that language. They were shocked to find out that they had the language skills of a native sixth grader, if that. I heard that a few were in fact pretty good, but it was the exception, not the rule.

> I remember missionaries
> returning to BYU who
> thought they had pretty
> good language skills and
> would be able to "test out"
> of courses in their mission
> language and pick up an
> easy minor in that language.
> They were shocked to find
> out that they had the
> language skills of a native
> sixth grader, if that. I
> heard that a few were in
> fact pretty good, but it was
> the exception, not the rule.


It's my recollection that back in 1967, I got the language credits just for being an RM from a Spanish-speaking mission. I do not recall taking a test. Would I have been comfortable having to identify the pluperfect future conditional of some irregular verbs? Probably not...

I had to take two Spanish lit classes and that was it for my Spanish minor. It was that dumb 9 credits in an 'emphasis' that nearly did me in.

But thank ghawd for being able to take a religion class every semester! That's why BYU is known as the Harvard of the West!

Actually, I think that Cambridge college is known as BYU of the East, no?

Well aren't you the cranky one. Jeez, chill already. Eat more fiber. The OP is just expressing his/her opinion. Calm down Brother (of Jerry).

Carry on, sparky.

spanglish

Thank you for the story. Never heard of Baseball Baptisms.

On my mission we had English Class baptisms where the first phrase we taught them was "Joseph Smith was a prophet."

Any trick in the book will do for Mormons and they need tricks now more than ever. Tickled me that the driver noted the word Mormon had become derogatory.

Off topic, I am so jealous of you as the Isle of Skye is the big item on my bucket list ever since watching Harry Styles video of his hit song, "Sign of the Times." The most visually stunning bit of film ever if you can find it on youtube.

We had a wonderful time. Went to Wick, Orkney, Stornaway, Lewis, Harris, Raasay, Skye, and Mull, all to end in Oban. I saw dolphins, orcas, and rainbows, and did a lot of drinking of non WOW approved beverages. Scotland is stunning. And I love that they drop the F bomb a lot.

I am in Scotland right now and call bull on this. Baseball isn't even televised on free to air here. Most baseball bats are bought by gangsters and small shop owners to defend themselves from them. Baseball is even lower profile than cricket.

I actually read about baseball baptisms on this forum several years ago, so it’s definitely not bull. Also, the guy didn’t mention if his friend was in Scotland when he joined. He just happened to be Scottish and said he’d had a friend who had joined via a baseball team. I think they were a thing in the 70s.

In fact, here’s the thread on it.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,674206,674206

And if you Google, you’ll find a lengthy Sunstone Magazine article about it. It was a big thing in Britain.

No, JM...baseball baptisms happened. I served my mission in Scotland back in the 70's. We took the ward list (this was in Dumfries) and searched out the inactive members. We ran across 2 men who said they were baptized while playing on baseball teams arranged by the missionaries. My companion and I had heard about the practice, but this was the first time we ran across anyone that was baptized because of it. Neither of the men we contacted wanted anything to do with the church, but they did remember the baseball games and being baptized.

Sure see a lot of people wearing NY Yankee baseball caps . Guess the Scots don't realize how messed up that team from the Bronx actually is . Go Red Sox!

I mean, if it's not on television then it couldn't happen. Right?

Baseball is very low profile in Scotland. Very low. I don't think I've ever seen a dedicated baseball pitch in Scotland (have seen American football grounds in Glasgow and Edinburgh - there is one in Pollok Park)

It is an also ran way behind soccer, rugby, cricket, basketball, athletics, Formula One even Gaelic Games and shinty. (Ironically baseball is much more fun than cricket). There is a similar sport called rounders which kids play. American football, ice hockey and crappy American "wrestling".

Of the American sports, probably NASCAR is lower profile although Dario Franchitti used to get some press coverage.

If you asked most Scots to name several baseball teams they would struggle. Maybe one or two but not much more than that.

When has something being a bad idea stopped the Mormons from doing it?

Thank God He gave me the gift of being born and raised in Scotland. We arra peepel

Billy Connolly fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We arra peepel

Isn't that some Orange phrase?

He says in . . . English.

Subtle LW. :)

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He says in . . . English.

Nach fuadach na h-Albannaich na Sasannaich a-mach fhathast?

Lol. Well played. You must have been the ones who stole all those vowels from Eastern Europe cities like Brno and Lviv. I fund the best rule of thumb for pronouncing Irish Gaelic was to just skip every other letter. The trick was knowing whether to start skipping on the first letter or the second one.

E.g: uilleann pipes, pronounced ilen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/20/2019 07:25PM by Brother Of Jerry.

It's just a Google Translate version of "Haven't the Scots kicked the English out yet?"

Modern technology lets any fool pretend to be educated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2019 12:15AM by Lot's Wife.

I'm waiting for technology to allow me to pretend I had a baby!

But you do have a baby.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's just a Google Translate version of "Haven't
> the Scots kicked the English out yet?"
>
> Modern technology lets any fool pretend to be
> educated.

Abair òinseach phroiseil a th'againn an seo. :D)) Ablach gun fheum. :) Cha mhòr nach eil "Google Translate" ag obrachadh sa Ghàidhlig idir! ("Google Translate" doesn't really work in Scottish Gaelic. Certainly not with sèimheachadh and other grammatical features.)

More fool you for thinking someone needs Google Translate for a language they've been speaking since childhood. */:) My Gaelic's not perfect, but neither's my English.

Have you emailed CZ yet, Jordan?

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Have you emailed CZ yet, Jordan?

What the hell are you on about?

Oh and by the way, nice try, but O actually have a Gaelic qualification. I got it before Google Translate even existed. Git tae Fawkirk!

> What the hell are you on about?

Again,the Canadian syntax.


----------------
> Oh and by the way, nice try, but O actually have a
> Gaelic qualification.

"Qualification," meaning British or Canadian education.


----------------
What am I on about? Just wondering why you keep switching screen names even though your syntax and vocabulary stick out like a sore thumb.

It would be so much simpler, Jordan/ExMoCanuck/HWint/LogicalExMoCanuck/severalothers/Seumas, if you just picked a single name and spoke to CZ as he asked.

We missed you yesterday, by the way, when the full moon brought out the other racists.

What are you smoking? I got a Scotvec qualification in Gaelic years ago. I'm not Canadian, and my name's not bloody Jordan. Awa an bile yer heid!

I call you a Canadian racist and you take issue with my use of the word "Canadian."

That says a lot, Jordan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2019 05:40PM by Lot's Wife.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lol. Well played. You must have been the ones who
> stole all those vowels from Eastern Europe cities
> like Brno and Lviv. I fund the best rule of thumb
> for pronouncing Irish Gaelic was to just skip
> every other letter. The trick was knowing whether
> to start skipping on the first letter or the
> second one.
>
> E.g: uilleann pipes, pronounced ilen

Nah, that would probably be Fiiinnish or Estoniäään. :)

I can't believe that someone thinks I used Google Translate for that. It barely works for Gaelic at all! If you say you know anything these days, it's apparently off Wikipedia or Google.

p.s. I would pronounce uilleann as something like ooileean, so it's not that far off the English. But the usual pronunciation is from the Irish which is not quite how I speak

Jordan, CZ still wants you to email him.

Henry D. Moyle, and Apostle, started the baseball baptisms. This did skyrocket the number of baptisms, but the boys were all baptized without the permission or knowledge of their parents. When they found out, they were LIVID! When other Apostles found out about the baptisms (David O. McKay was senile by this time and just shaked his head up and down if you asked him anything) stopped the baseball baptisms. Future missionaries in England spent a lot of time excommunicating men who were baptized as boys, who thought they had to do that in order to join a baseball team. Moyle was sent to Florida for "health reasons" and basically told "Don't come back". He died in Florida not long afterwards. Some suspected suicide, but, of course, the Church covered it all up. In case, you didn't know.

Now see, this was the kind of commentary I was expecting on this thread!

I recently found myself watching old Osmonds videos and they talked about how huge their impact was in England. I would imagine that Mormonism was also made more popular there in the 70s thanks to the Osmonds. I was actually living in England in the 70s, but I was a little kid at the time. My very non-Mormon sisters had Osmonds albums.

I just thought it was interesting that this random cabbie was telling me he had a friend who had been baptized through the baseball baptism program, and I had only known about it because I read a thread about it on this here forum. I don't hang out here as much as I used to, but it really is a good source for information about the church and its wackiness.

Had some haggis in Sterling and LOVED it with my eggs at breakfast. Very peppery.

My dad used to say I got all the Scottish blood in our family tree because I'm the biggest tight wad you'll ever want to meet.

I'm not much for Scotch but Scottish scenery is to die for. I wear our tartan whenever possible.

YAY Scotland!

> YAY Scotland!


It must really rankle good Scotsmen and women that the mormon church profaned "Scotland the Brave."