On nbcnews.com now there is this headline: "Mormon church warning: Beware of those fancy coffee drinks". It is here:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/religion/mormon-church-warning-beware-those-fancy-coffee-drinks-n1043156

(Seems they didn't get the "we're not Mormon anymore" memo.) The NBC piece is about an article in the August issue of a "church youth magazine" that warns about coffee drinks, even with fancy names. It basically says yes, mormons are still weird and don't drink anything with coffee in it, and should be wary of anything served in a coffee shop.

There are also these two particularly interesting paragraphs:

"Jana Riess, a church member and author, said she was shocked to find that four in 10 active church members under age 51 had drank coffee during the previous six months in a 2016 survey she conducted for her book, "The Next Mormons: How Millennials Are Changing the LDS Church."

She also found that younger members are less concerned than older members about obeying the health code, which is one of the ways that makes the religion distinct from many other faiths."


I'm surprised too - 4 out of 10 active members. I would have guessed a much smaller number. Maybe there is hope - it appears that there are not only a large numbers of young members walking away from moism, but many of those that stay are ignoring fundamental parts of the religion. I'll raise my cup to that.

then why not things like mango (whoops)--mocha frappe (ha ha ha) at McDonald's? Same thing? Caffeine in a cold drink. I think that is what millennials are thinking. And others younger than I am.

They seem to think that everyone is stupid. That is one of the really irritating things about the mormon leaders.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2019 01:48PM by cl2.

"Jana Riess, a church member and author, said she was shocked to find that four in 10 active church members under age 51 had drank coffee during the previous six months in a 2016 survey she conducted for her book.."


Shocking absolutely shocking...:)

I'm shocked that SHE is shocked.

Good thing her survey wasn't about porn usage...she'd need a shock to get her heart going again.

Have a family member in the coffee business in Utah. Their research shows a high number of Mormons, especially women, buy their fancy coffee drinks.

It's nothing short of amazing that ChurchCo continually changes things - sometime peripheral, sometimes core - but expects the individual members to not change their attitudes towards the validity / daily application.


yup, that's Mormonism for ya.

Covered in The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/16/always-ask-if-theres-coffee-in-it-mormon-church-stands-by-rule-with-new-advice

Every week it seems like there is another news article on the health benefits of coffee. Interesting that the church article makes no effort to counter that. Instead just says,
"Here are the rules for you to follow."

a ffo gato looka atta the ingredients.

I thought it was fancy ice cream, not fancy coffee.

I'll be more careful in the future. From now on, it's only root beer, sprite and hot chocolate with marshmallows. Now, can I get my temple recommend back?

uh... What about cola drinks? said the resident cynic...

Monson publicly drank caffeinated soda. Can't condem the presiding high priest. So caffeine is fine. Coffee is not.

I read the church newsroom statement and was a bit surprised to see that they specifically refer to green tea as being prohibited. When I was active, I seem to recall some members referring to the WoW prohibition being in respect of black tea, and that green tea was like herbal tea and okay.

the autonomous thinking functions in their brain.

I once offered some green tea to a Mormon cousin. She looked around to see if anyone else was in the kitchen or within hearing distance. Seeing that all was clear, she said: "Sure, I'd like a cup. I've never considered it to be a violation of the Word of Wisdom. But Frank still thinks that it is." ("Frank" is her husband.)

Meanwhile, the robots programmed to play the elaborate game of "Simon Says" known as the LSD Church continue to go along in lockstep, oddly believing that a sip or two of green tea is a terrible sin, while guzzling half a gallon of sugary soda pop every day is just a questionable lifestyle choice.

Interestingly the English version of the strength of youth pamphlet says to not drink tea.

The Portuguese version says to not drink black tea.

I pointed that out to some mormons and they had no explaination for it.

IIRC, back in the 70s and 80s the taboo applied specifically to black tea and did not include green tea. Somehow that got changed and in more recent decades it applies to all tea (according to missionaries I've talked to who have served in those areas). It looks like those kinds of distinctions are made by church bureaucrats, since I don't recall the FP and Q12 ever making any public declarations on the subject.

So, probably, just because some moron living in Utah and working in the church bureaucracy in SLC a few decades ago decided that green tea was also to be prohibited, all of the missionaries in countries like Korea and Japan are stuck with the extra burden of telling people there that God hates green tea...which to those people is equivalent to telling them that the Mormon god is against water, broccoli and spinach.

Here in the Netherlands, the mormons have always drank redbush tea... claiming it's not 'real' tea, and therefore fine to drink...

I wonder how they deal with all the other herbal infusions nowadays... it must be so confusing to be mormon..

This is a little off topic, Becca, but can the United States buy your country? There has to be a backup plan if the Danes insist on keeping Greenland.

LOL!!!!

The U.S. will buy Greenland and make Mexico pay for it.

Is iced coffee OK to drink ?

Apparently it’s still a “hot” drink even when it’s cold.
But hot chocolate is somehow not a hot drink so it’s fine.
Diet Coke has more caffeine in than hot chocolate but it doesn’t count. I would have researched why as a mormon, but I was too busy drinking it to fend off cravings for everything else.

When I was an active Mormon, single, and sharing an apartment with another TBM, he would drink Sanka because it was decaffeinated. He also drank coke. This is hardly a serious issue, though it demonstrates the mental gymnastics Mormons perform on a regular basis. He also later became a Bishop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2019 09:47AM by Eric K.

OK...but what about the newer Selmer AXOS alto? Have you given it a test spin? Maybe just as good the old Selmer USA Omegas?...yeah. Even tho CNC tech is at play here with these models...please comment.

...never going to beat this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPd_7FCwzmE

It's still amazing (in a bad way) that the whole Word of Wisdom thing is THE barometer for measuring how good a Mormon you are. Not Christian compassion, empathy, generousness, or any other godly attribute. Just whether or not you've been seen with a coffee in your hand.

Hilarious cautionary warning:

"The word coffee isn't always in the name of coffee drinks. So, before you try what you think is just some new milkshake flavor, here are a couple of rules of thumb: One, if you're in a coffee shop (or any other shop that's well-known for its coffee), the drink you're ordering probably has coffee in it, so either never buy drinks at coffee shops or always ask if there's coffee in it," the article said. "Two, drinks with names that include cafe or caffe, mocha, latte, espresso, or anything ending in -ccino usually have coffee in them and are against the Word of Wisdom."

Um, the word "Mormon" isn't always in the name of the Mormon church, so, before you sign up to have a Bible delivered to your home, or you try conversing with "Christian ministers", here's a couple or rules of thumb: One, if you're on Mormon property, you will be buying into Mormon propaganda and love-bombing. Never allow yourself to be accosted at Mormon churches or temples. Don't give your name and address to men there who are wearing a white shirt and tie, or any woman wearing a long black skirt, or who calls himself/herself "Brother" or "Sister" or "Elder", or who talks about "another testament of JESUS CHRIST" or who offers to do yard work for you for free. They have the cult in them, and are against truth, logic, and love.

I wanted to post that quote!! I laughed, even out loud, when I read it.

Thanks for explaining coffee shops, mormons!

I just realized that there was a heck of a buzz just prior to April's GC about the possibility that WoW restrictions were going to be relaxed and updated. I wonder if the leaders were exploring the idea (creating a rumor in Mormonland) and have now fully decided against it.

I think eventually the church will do something if they want any type of long term success in Asia.

Coffee has caffeine in it.

Mormonism has stupid in it.

Stop it ! You're going to make me snort Dr Pepper out of my nose ! *LOL*

various combinations of "mor" and "on" is likely to contain a lot of stupid.

"[For] he came up unto the land of Moron, where the people's choices in beverages were dictated to them by elderly men whose neckties were perpetually cinched around their necks more tightly than was medically advisable, and these elderly men, when dictating beverage choices to the multitude, did rely upon the beverage preferences and prescribed punishments for disobedience that had been handed down to them by a mentally unstable predecessor named Heber J. Grant, who had lived in a previous century. Any of the common people who desired to sample otherwise ostensibly harmless beverages that had traditionally been prohibited pursuant to the draconian edicts of this Heber J. Grant, dared not do so lest they lose access to the house of handshakes, for the house of handshakes was of utmost importance to them, as it was not only a place of much handshaking, but also afforded them the opportunity to wear floppy hats, slippery slippers, aprons and under garments."

I think the above is a direct quote from a passage in the Book of Mormon, but I don't have time to track down the exact chapter and verse.

So they are saying WoW says no coffee, not decaf, not tiramisu (espresso layered lady fingers), not brown liquid except when Mitt 'Sour Grapes' Romney drinks Diet Coke?

From the group who wants us to pretend sacrament shots of H20 are just like The Last Supper(tm)?

That's all it has ever been. That's why it never has to make any logical sense.

"Simon says stand on one leg, slap your forehead and put a jelly bean in your nose."

"Hey, Billy, did Simon Say you could drink green tea? That's right. Simon did not say you could drink green tea. So you need to go to the back of the room with all the other losers. Maybe you'll do better when we let you play again next time."

First and foremost, Mormons are trained to know who Simon is, i.e. who are the "authorities". Then the rest of their lives they are expected to be focused intently on doing whatever the Simon tells them to do. Logic, reasoning and common sense are not part of that equation.

The thing I hate about the fancy coffee drinks is that I always get some yahoo in front of me who decides to reel off 27 ingredients/requirements for their cup of liquid candy

"oh, and do you have turbinado sugar with left-hand polarization? No? What a disappointment. How about cane sugar from Martinique? The oak floorboards in the wagons they haul the sugar cane in makes all the difference."

God save me from those people.


The "dirty soda" shoppe craze along the Wasatch Front, where you can order additives in your trash-can sized soda, is basically the Mormon-approved version of the same mental condition as the people at starbucks with their infinite list of requirements, complete with suggestive names. "I'll have a 'what she's having', extra cream, add a shot of almond"

What some people won't do to be the center of attention.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2019 10:44PM by Brother Of Jerry.

Funny stuff, Brother of Jerry!

Funny, and true!

"Trash-can sized soda"

Love the Brother of Jerry rant on ordering fancy coffees. A good, mych-needed laugh!

And the LINES at the driveup are crazy. There is a place here that I like their corn dogs. (So do my dogs.) I know, junk food. I eat junk food. The line is so long there as they have these drinks, so I never go there anymore.

I can't imagine putting anything in my diet coke including Captain Morgan.

Whatever you do,,. DON'T FOCUS ON LOVE FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR, KINDNESS, CARING-COMPASSION, OR EVEN HONESTY, WE'LL CYA IF YOU'RE AFOUL OF ANY OF THOSE!!!

Good Samaritan? Is that in the Book of Boring? NOPE!

Golden Rule? Same-O

But PLEASE depend on us for the micro-management you'll surely need to get a temple admission ticket or a respectable calling!

A number of years ago we lived where there were free-standing, drive up Kiosks that served coffee and other drinks. There was one that experimented with topless baristas. It didn't last too long till the city shut it down.
I wonder if it would be okay to get your drink there as long as it was not coffee or tea?

Well you know the old joke: What's the difference between a good Mormon and a bad one? The temperature of their caffeine.

There are a lot of fat mormons who are gradually dieing of diabetes from their obesity but that maintain regular temple attendance. But the mormon church says nothing about over-indulgence in sugar (the cause of that health epidemic). The whole coffee thing is just a stupid game so that people will say that mormons are a peculiar people. I guess something has to make them different as a method to publicly validate the uniqueness of their religion. Can't the church and its leaders give at least some real health advice to their members? No, just don't drink coffee and give ten percent of your income to the church if you want to become a god. Bow your head and say "yes".

Of all the warnings in the western world, fancy coffee drinks

don't even make a mention.

This only shows what a complete joke the mormon church is.

I mean Seriously? Coffee drinks? Its would be laughable if

it weren't so pathetic.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLdjraVzgJ4C7XqSjHh26C9kcySEuBN7dn2UjndFFA4FEN-F7sKw


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTE_gNdk1SQi2PDcy_wtHBMEmU6a3BltdEHNCERDY7PdF18GJyt

https://scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/adbd683b0daeeb371d1726431c98d95f/5DDD45AF/t51.2885-15/e35/53563878_2565325296829860_6770097335563637592_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.cdninstagram.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2019 01:58AM by Dave the Atheist.

Of all the problems of the world, coffee is what they are worrying about????

Do the Mormon leaders really think that their members do not know what coffee is in and what is not?

It normally is pretty obvious and rather blatant on menus. It puzzles me how anyone would be ignorant of what has or does not have coffee in it.

I tend NOT to pay for the expensive coffees as a luxury, or go to shops just to get coffee. I have a coffee pot at home and can make it just fine.

WHAT I DO miss in the Mormon front is the coffee pot set up at work. Even without that, at least back east, they used to have these machines which you put in some change and you got a cup of coffee from it. Even that at work would be nicer than no coffee machine.

Of course, I thought I was the only one at work that drinks coffee (and these days, I admit, more subertly as...yes...the pressure to fit in is enormous). I have a mini-machine where I put in a cup of water and it gives me a cup of coffee.

I wonder now if there are more people at work that are drinking coffee then let on? There might be a lot more that are drinking it even more subtly than I do these days!

Now, if I go out to breakfast or a meal, I will order coffee, but I'm not as much into those fancy drinks that are the thrill of many these days. I let my son drink them (he seems to want one everytime we go out, he loves them) but I tend to prefer my coffee more basic.

I think it is popular among others my age and younger to do the entire Starbucks thing. It has puzzled me extensively why there are so many Starbucks and other locations in the Morridor if half of them don't even believe in it (they could use more donut shops as well, these are also very lacking in the Morridor), but if there are 4/10 or more drinking coffee, that could explain many things.

and milkshakes whenever the opportunity presented itself.

My TBM mom often questioned whether such treats violated the Word of Wisdom.

I confidently reassured her that they did not.

She would then get a confused look on her face...and I would enjoy my java-mocha milkshake.

This was long before Starbucks existed anywhere outside of Seattle (or wherever it came from).

But I fear they're cracking down now. It will be harder and harder for today's teens to get away with the coffee ice cream and milkshake exception the way that I did.

but they have coffee set ups at work. They take turns buying the coffee and many mormons also participate. He had an intern (who was mormon) who hated the smell of coffee, though they got along great. He stated when he left that he still didn't like the smell of coffee.

What they SHOULD warn about is how "fancy coffee drinks" will shrink your wallet and expand your ass!

It all comes down to control... If the MORmONS can control the smaller things like women wearing dresses and everyone not drinking coffee... they can control the more difficult things like over looking the contextual history of the BoM and other things that matter...