Many places and some school systems are allowing children to register as something other than male or female. What about baptism? Does it affect that? What about Priesthood? How will that affect temple work when these people die? Just an interesting question for Dusty Rusty and Bendy Wendy and their lighted pen. Oh wait with all the stuff going on in world it’s the name Mormon that is the biggest problem right now.

I attended a ward today with friend and member of Bishopric mentioned how people who receive callings are “volunteers” doing the Lord’s work. He mentioned how it’s rewarding to volunteer your time to build up kingdom. Things are changing folks. Not the church I grew up in Toronto Ontario Canada. Any idea why change to volunteer rather than called by God?

Plausible deniability when one of them gets busted for crimes?

most mormons probably don't think they are in an inspired calling. They are just stuck getting some work done. They do it out of duty or guilt.

What about people who are both male and female ?

The choose your gender thing is a silly trend. Male and female gender is a biological scientific reality. Doesn't matter if you want to change your sex or whatever your attitudes are. You is what you were born as.

Just wait. We are heading towards choose your own right math answer. All answers that you want right will be right. Damn. That will make math easy.

As long as you are making declarations ex cathedra, without regard to actual evidence, why not simply declare that everyone is born heterosexual, and homosexuality is a fiction. That would certainly make the world simpler.

If you have a penis, you are a male. If you have a vagina, you are a female. What more evidence do you need?

Sexual desires are not physical biology. Would you really like to be operated on by a doctor who's medical school taught gender is whatever you want it to be? The male body and female body differ in many sophisticated ways.

Political correctness and trying not to offend ignorant people is taking us down the path of stupidity. Sorry. An anything goes world or a Bob Ross "It's your world and you can make it what you want it to be." is pretty much chaos.

Where does it stop? Gender can be whatever you want it to be and now we can't use gender specific pronouns. What's next? Crazy shit.

What if you are born with a penis and a vagina?

See below.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> What if you are born with a penis and a vagina?
>
> See below.

That's what, 1 out of 1000 people maybe?

Anyway the more interesting question, if you want to make this a thing, is whether the church would give the Priesthood to intersex people.

The frequency depends on what you define as "intersex." If you include multiple XXY, XXXY, etc., and XO, etc., the percentage is roughly 1.7%, so two in one hundred. Some specialists don't count some of those syndromes and get a significantly lower percentage, but it's a fair bet that any OB-GYN or pediatrician will encounter a few such individuals over the course of his career. The point is that sexual identity is not binary even ignoring the fact that somewhere near 10% of any human population comprises people whose sexual identity differs from their physical characteristics.

I'll bet the church had no problem in the old days when parents and doctors decided whether an intersex child was male or female. That the kid would grow up and then experience profound problems wouldn't have bothered good old Mormons. If parents had an intersex kid in today's circumstances, and opted not to force a "resolution" immediately but rather to let the kid grow into his identity, the church would have a problem. My guess is that they would defer a decision as long as possible, sort of like they did with the kids of gay parents.

They won't change policy until public and political pressure mounts to the point that they have no choice.

>>anyway the more interesting question, if you want to make this a thing, is whether the church would give the Priesthood to intersex people.

The church already has, most likely many times. Intersex people have traditionally been assigned a gender at birth after a conversation between physicians and the parents. The child has then been a candidate for surgery and has been raised in the assigned gender. Most people would be none the wiser.

The trouble for the church arises when the child feels that the parents got the gender assignment wrong, and wishes to identify with the other gender at an older age. Mormon church authorities treat that in the same way that they treat transgender people. I can remember one particular case of that happening, and I'm sure there are similar cases.

Sex isn’t gender.

Some people choose to identify others by sex regardless of others’ gender presentation and pronoun preferences and it’s creepy.

Rubicon, you should look up "intersex" or speak to an OB-GYN. A couple percent of people are born with "ambiguous genitalia," meaning some degree of both male and female characteristics. Historically doctors and parents would just decide whether they wanted a boy or a girl and perform the requisite surgery. Sometimes they guessed right, sometimes wrong. The latter cases often turned out (very) badly because people with female genes were given male bodies and vice versa--a situation that proved untenable when puberty brought incompatible hormones.

There are also people whose genes are neither strictly male nor strictly female. Besides XY and XX, for instance, there are XXY and other combinations. So I'd ask you, is an XXY person male or female? How about the rarer XXXY or XXXXY? The point is that gender is binary in most cases but by no means in all.

I agree with Lot's Wife. Some people are born with an indeterminate gender. Parents used to make the call, but I could see a trend toward (perhaps) making a temporary gender assignment with surgery held off until later in life.

Ask any friends who are medical professionals.

Mormons have large families and marry in instead of out.

The difference is that it's openly talked about nowadays.

Model Hanne Gaby on What It's Like to Be Intersex | Teen Vogue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86cNy7tN04k



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/2019 08:54AM by anybody.

Toronto Boy Wrote:
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> Any idea why change to
> volunteer rather than called by God?
===============================
Decreased TSCC liability


Always look at the money

just flip them over on they backs OPie ~


an look between they legs OPie ~



that will tell you OPie ~

Laparoscopic gonedectomy in a case of complete androgen insensitivity syndrome

http://www.jhrsonline.org/article.asp?issn=0974-1208;year=2014;volume=7;issue=3;spage=221;epage=223;aulast=Bhaskararao




https://www.bbc.com/news/health-39979186

I have for a long time assumed that feeling you were actually a different gender than the one you were born with is a very real thing, just as homosexuality is a real thing. I hadn’t assumed it was necessarily genetic either, but perhaps it can be. Undergoing gender reassignment is a pretty huge deal isn’t it? No one would do that unless they felt very strongly they were the opposite gender.
I think this is something most of us don’t understand, which is why people make comments such as “its creepy” etc. Sorry, but that’s prejudice right there. Who are we to judge? These people are probably tormented enough.

As for people who claim they are neither gender, but something else, I’ve never heard of anyone who can’t decide and who decides to permanently identify as being a third gender of some kind. But that could just be my own ignorance. I had a patient who had an extra X chromosome that gave him health and sexuality issues, but he still identified as a man. In these cases, so long as the person is identifying according to their genitals, the mormon church would probably not argue, but of course such a person would likely be shunned in mormon culture. As would someone who had both male and female genitals (and who kept them, but I suspect those people would undergo surgery as children normally).

Regarding transgender people. of course they will never be ok with it. Like, if someone used to be a woman but claims they are now a man? They would never baptise or give the priesthood to that person. I’ve yet to see them make a statement on that specifically, but I probably missed it or it got lost in all the homophobic statements of LDS.inc.

To someone who claims they don’t identify as either? That would confuse the hell out of the mormons, and I suspect they’d struggle to form a response.